Xeon - breaking the "market segment" boundaries

[colonelciller]

Here's a question about Xeon E5 CPUs & socket/motherboard compatibility.

*Xeon E5 1620 is a single-socket Xeon CPU
*Xeon E5 1650 is a single-socket Xeon CPU also

Neither of the above can be installed in pairs into any dual-socket motherboard because the chips lack the necessary QPI interconnects that enable the CPUs to talk to one another (my rough understanding).

Here's the question:
Does anyone know if either of those CPUs can be used at all in a dual-socket Xeon E5 motherboard (designed for Xeon E5 2600 series CPUs)?

The idea is to just populate one socket and leave the other empty. Then when I can afford it, populate both sockets with higher end Xeon E5 2600 CPUs.

 

[videogames101]

http://ark.intel.com/products/63984/Intel-BD82C602-PCH

The compatibility list (click on compatible products on the left of that page) indicates the C602 chipset works fine with those chips.

That motherboard page states that "(Both CPUs need to be installed for full access to PCI-E slots and onboard controllers. See manual block diagram for details.)"

This leads me to believe you could install 1 of those processors.

However, I have no idea if it would actually work, I can't say I've tried it.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

The motherboard manual only specifies E5-2600 series chips.

I've read enough threads that started out as

"OMG! ____ didn't specifically say ____ in the manual, but they didn't say ____ either, so I tried it and it didn't work and now I'm out $_____ because _____ is a horrible company without any good ______ and I'm _____!!!"

to be very, very wary of doing something that isn't in the manual.

But in this case, you're very unlikely to break something. So if you buy from a company that has a decent return policy, you can at least try it with minimal financial risk.

 

[crashtech]

Check out the CPU list for the Asus Z9PA-D8 Dual 2011 board.

 

[colonelciller]

thanks for all the good points... I've been researching this workstation build for weeks and this has been the tough point. the xeon pricing structure is fine unil you get into the dual socket cpus... at which point the CPUs go waaaaaaaay downhill in terms of performance compared to the much cheaper 1620.

2600 series xeons are really inferior to the 1620 in per-CPU specs until you start spending huge amounts of money... very frustrating price structure.

maybe the thing to do is just build a single socket workstation.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Here's a question about Xeon E5 CPUs & socket/motherboard compatibility.

*Xeon E5 1620 is a single-socket Xeon CPU
*Xeon E5 1650 is a single-socket Xeon CPU also

Neither of the above can be installed in pairs into any dual-socket motherboard because the chips lack the necessary QPI interconnects that enable the CPUs to talk to one another (my rough understanding).

Here's the question:
Does anyone know if either of those CPUs can be used at all in a dual-socket Xeon E5 motherboard (designed for Xeon E5 2600 series CPUs)?

The idea is to just populate one socket and leave the other empty. Then when I can afford it, populate both sockets with higher end Xeon E5 2600 CPUs.

The 1650 appears to be discontinued, right? On Newegg's site, they have an E5-1660 but it is $1100. You could get the 8 core E5-2650 for just slightly more. Yes, it has a slower clock speed but if your application is heavily multi-threaded, you've got 2 extra cores.

If you're just wanting to throw in a cheap CPU to have a working system while you save up for the faster E5-2600 series chips, there are several E5-2600 models under $350 that would work in that board.

2600 series xeons are really inferior to the 1620 in per-CPU specs until you start spending huge amounts of money... very frustrating price structure. maybe the thing to do is just build a single socket workstation.

Designed for different purposes. I just built a server with a dual CPU Supermicro board and have a single E5-2620 in it. Yes, I would've liked to have had a faster 8 core monster in there, but the 2620 has 6 cores, is reasonably clocked for my needs, and is fairly cheap. I'll be adding a second 2620 soon. I figure that the 8 core models will be dirt cheap in a few years and I can buy them then if I need the performance.

 

[colonelciller]

I just built a server with a dual CPU Supermicro board and have a single E5-2620 in it. Yes, I would've liked to have had a faster 8 core monster in there, but the 2620 has 6 cores, is reasonably clocked for my needs, and is fairly cheap. I'll be adding a second 2620 soon. I figure that the 8 core models will be dirt cheap in a few years and I can buy them then if I need the performance.

Hey thanks for the feedback, I'm curious what board chose?

Also I've been reading about memory compatibility issues with the supermicro boards and the need to be very careful when selecting memory kits. Did you run into any issues there?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Hey thanks for the feedback, I'm curious what board chose?

Also I've been reading about memory compatibility issues with the supermicro boards and the need to be very careful when selecting memory kits. Did you run into any issues there?

I'm using this board with four of this memory stick. No problems so far.

 

[colonelciller]

I'm using this board with four of this memory stick. No problems so far.

Thanks for that info. You've got me leaning back towards the dual socket board now

 

[crashtech]

I'm not sure if you overlooked my suggestion or considered it and rejected it, but the Z9PA-D8 does support E5-16xx CPUs:

http://www.asus.com/Commercial_Server_Workstation/Z9PAD8/#support_CPU

 

[tynopik]

The 1650 appears to be discontinued, right?

no

The E5-1620 and E5-1650 are OEM only, meaning they are only sold in trays, not in boxes

of course you can find stores that sell them

 

[colonelciller]

I'm not sure if you overlooked my suggestion or considered it and rejected it, but the Z9PA-D8 does support E5-16xx CPUs:

http://www.asus.com/Commercial_Server_Workstation/Z9PAD8/#support_CPU

sorry about that crashtech. i didn't ignore your suggestion at all, i checked it out and didn't notice the 16xx support though. actually double-checking the asus page for it I still don't see any mention of e5-16xx support. are you sure about those CPUs are supported?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I'm not sure if you overlooked my suggestion or considered it and rejected it, but the Z9PA-D8 does support E5-16xx CPUs:

http://www.asus.com/Commercial_Server_Workstation/Z9PAD8/#support_CPU

This board does support the E5-1600 series. colonelciller, please note that it won't support dual E5-1600s though so you'd still be using your original plan of upgrading to 2600 series chips down the line.

no

The E5-1620 and E5-1650 are OEM only, meaning they are only sold in trays, not in boxes

of course you can find stores that sell them

Cool, thanks.

 

[crashtech]

sorry about that crashtech. i didn't ignore your suggestion at all, i checked it out and didn't notice the 16xx support though. actually double-checking the asus page for it I still don't see any mention of e5-16xx support. are you sure about those CPUs are supported?

I don't have this board yet, but support for E5-16xx is explicitly stated in the page I linked above.

 

[colonelciller]

I don't have this board yet, but support for E5-16xx is explicitly stated in the page I linked above.

okay, yes i see it now!
not sure why i kept overlooking it before, anyway thank you.

 

[colonelciller]

This board does support the E5-1600 series. colonelciller, please note that it won't support dual E5-1600s though so you'd still be using your original plan of upgrading to 2600 series chips down the line.

yeah. this is great news for me... finally a solid path for moving forward with the build! thanks to everyone for the great discussion

 

[moonbogg]

Forgive me for mentioning, but would a 4ghz+ 3930k be viable? For the cost of the xeons you could almost build two 3930k machines.

 

[colonelciller]

Forgive me for mentioning, but would a 4ghz+ 3930k be viable? For the cost of the xeons you could almost build two 3930k machines.

Fair question.
The main difference between the E5 1620 & 1650 vs the i7 3820 & 3930k is the chipset that they're allowed to utilize.

In my case it is the chipset that I care about because I'd like to be able to convert my initial build into a dual socket beastie with as many cores as I can afford at as high of a clockrate that I can afford. This is mainly for use with Photoshop, AfterEffects & 3D software such as Vue, CAD, Maya... however I also will use the rig for not-too-fancy-gaming. Maybe I'm out in left field here though... it's just for personal use (mainly digital art). I'm still comparing the parts before performing a final "reality check."


On a tangent... here's some interesting food for thought on the i7 extreme CPUs vs the single-socket Xeons. The 3930k is essentially identical to the E5 1650 in almost every way with the same:

• socket --------> 2011
• core clock -----> 3.2GHz
• max turbo -----> 3.8GHz
• # cores -------> 6
• threads/core --> 12
• L3 cache ------> 15MB
• PCI lanes ------> 40
• price $$

the only difference I see is that the 1650 is allowed to utilize 375GB ram to the 3930k's 64... and then there's the OC'ability of the 3930k to consider. For me the OC isn't something that i've ever attempted, but it does seem interesting.

A similar comparison can be made between the 3820 and the 1620... from what I can tell they're identical chips with some minor variations... and the same price.

to get an E5-2643 (roughly equivalent to the i7 3820 and the E5-1620 except the 2643 is clocked slower @ 3.3GHz) you have to pay triple the price. I suppose that's for the privilege of being able to install 2 of the triple-price CPUs on a single board.

anyway, sorry for the rambling