Xentec HID Lights

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Apex

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
6,511
1
71
www.gotapex.com
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: shabby
Originally posted by: senseamp
I already have projector headlights in my Mazda3. Do I just pop these in?
Do I need a higher current harness? Will the housing handle the extra heat, if any?

Your projectors were still made for halogen bulbs, it wont look as bad as in a halogen housing but will wont look as good as from an oem hid projector.

I'm not totally sure about this. I've seen some amazingly sharp cutoffs from projector housings with halogen lamps. HID shouldn't change that. The only thing I'd be suspicious of is the auto-leveling, which projectors will lack.

HID bulbs may or may not change the cutoff. This is because the arc from the HID is bright at a slightly different place than the filament on the halogen bulb. Will it make the cutoff less sharp for sure? There's no way to tell until you test it. However, there's a pretty good chance it will. Definitely not 100% chance, like some would like to imply though.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
36
91
Originally posted by: Apex
HID bulbs may or may not change the cutoff. This is because the arc from the HID is bright at a slightly different place than the filament on the halogen bulb. Will it make the cutoff less sharp for sure? There's no way to tell until you test it. However, there's a pretty good chance it will. Definitely not 100% chance, like some would like to imply though.

Changing the shape and positioning WILL change the beam pattern. Period. The laws of optics do not bend because we want them to. Just because the cutoff looks clear does not mean that the beam pattern is acceptable. The cutoff is a very small part of the overall beam pattern.

There is a 100% chance that using a HID bulb in a housing designed for halogen filament bulbs will alter the beam pattern. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

ZV
 

shocksyde

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2001
5,539
0
0
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Changing the shape and positioning WILL change the beam pattern. Period. The laws of optics do not bend because we want them to. Just because the cutoff looks clear does not mean that the beam pattern is acceptable. The cutoff is a very small part of the overall beam pattern.

There is a 100% chance that using a HID bulb in a housing designed for halogen filament bulbs will alter the beam pattern. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

ZV

Is the Bold tag giving you HJs on side or something? :D
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Putting a HID in ANY fixture that is not designed for a HID bulb is an optical disaster, is ILLEGAL, and should never be done. Headlights are precision optical instruments and require very precise positioning and shape of the light source. A HID bulb does not have the same shape or positioning of the light source and it is not physically possible for it to produce the beam pattern that the halogen bulb produced.

Again, this is NOT a legal solution and it is not an optically-acceptable solution. Do not do it. The ONLY way to mount HID bulbs properly is to replace the entire lens and housing.

ZV

This is a bit alarmist.

I've installed HID bulbs in my 300ZX's projector headlights and the results were good. It has just about the same beam shape that it had before. In fact, I didn't even need to adjust the headlights after the install because the beam was so close to the way it was before. I've put in replacement halogens before that were further off, since bulbs are often slightly bent on their bases.

If you do a search out there to see the results of these installs, you'll see that the results turn out quite good for many cars.
 

Apex

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
6,511
1
71
www.gotapex.com
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Apex
HID bulbs may or may not change the cutoff. This is because the arc from the HID is bright at a slightly different place than the filament on the halogen bulb. Will it make the cutoff less sharp for sure? There's no way to tell until you test it. However, there's a pretty good chance it will. Definitely not 100% chance, like some would like to imply though.

Changing the shape and positioning WILL change the beam pattern. Period. The laws of optics do not bend because we want them to. Just because the cutoff looks clear does not mean that the beam pattern is acceptable. The cutoff is a very small part of the overall beam pattern.

There is a 100% chance that using a HID bulb in a housing designed for halogen filament bulbs will alter the beam pattern. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

ZV

I never said the beam pattern will not change, only the cutoff. Will the beam pattern get worse? Probably, but not necessarily. One assumes too much if he assumes the original beam pattern is the best. Often, the original beam pattern is already pretty compromised.

The fact remains that the only way to see if there is an improvement or reduction in usability and glare is to try it. Period.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: Apex
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Apex
HID bulbs may or may not change the cutoff. This is because the arc from the HID is bright at a slightly different place than the filament on the halogen bulb. Will it make the cutoff less sharp for sure? There's no way to tell until you test it. However, there's a pretty good chance it will. Definitely not 100% chance, like some would like to imply though.

Changing the shape and positioning WILL change the beam pattern. Period. The laws of optics do not bend because we want them to. Just because the cutoff looks clear does not mean that the beam pattern is acceptable. The cutoff is a very small part of the overall beam pattern.

There is a 100% chance that using a HID bulb in a housing designed for halogen filament bulbs will alter the beam pattern. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

ZV

I never said the beam pattern will not change, only the cutoff. Will the beam pattern get worse? Probably, but not necessarily. One assumes too much if he assumes the original beam pattern is the best. Often, the original beam pattern is already pretty compromised.

The fact remains that the only way to see if there is an improvement or reduction in usability and glare is to try it. Period.

I agree that you'll never know until you try it. Obviously if two bulbs place the filament/arc in different positions, it will change the beam characteristics. However, the plug-in HID kits do their best to place the arc in the same spot as the filament on the old bulb. It may not be exactly 100%, but most cars on the road aren't properly aimed anyway.

I can tell you from my own experience that the HID bulbs produced a beam pattern that was damn close to my old halogens, to the point of not even needing to be re-aimed. The beam pattern on my car most definitely did not experience this horrible degradation that some claimed it would.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
36
91
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Apex
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Apex
HID bulbs may or may not change the cutoff. This is because the arc from the HID is bright at a slightly different place than the filament on the halogen bulb. Will it make the cutoff less sharp for sure? There's no way to tell until you test it. However, there's a pretty good chance it will. Definitely not 100% chance, like some would like to imply though.

Changing the shape and positioning WILL change the beam pattern. Period. The laws of optics do not bend because we want them to. Just because the cutoff looks clear does not mean that the beam pattern is acceptable. The cutoff is a very small part of the overall beam pattern.

There is a 100% chance that using a HID bulb in a housing designed for halogen filament bulbs will alter the beam pattern. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

ZV

I never said the beam pattern will not change, only the cutoff. Will the beam pattern get worse? Probably, but not necessarily. One assumes too much if he assumes the original beam pattern is the best. Often, the original beam pattern is already pretty compromised.

The fact remains that the only way to see if there is an improvement or reduction in usability and glare is to try it. Period.

I agree that you'll never know until you try it. Obviously if two bulbs place the filament/arc in different positions, it will change the beam characteristics. However, the plug-in HID kits do their best to place the arc in the same spot as the filament on the old bulb. It may not be exactly 100%, but most cars on the road aren't properly aimed anyway.

I can tell you from my own experience that the HID bulbs produced a beam pattern that was damn close to my old halogens, to the point of not even needing to be re-aimed. The beam pattern on my car most definitely did not experience this horrible degradation that some claimed it would.

The shape of the light source is very different. Even if it's in the same place (which it isn't, and no matter how close they get, it's still not right) the differing shapes will cause issues.

And the simple fact is that it remains illegal to put any headlight bulb into a socket not designed for it if you are going to drive the vehicle on public roads.

My position is always to do it right or not to bother. Doing it right in this case means replacing the entire assembly, including the reflector and lens.

For more detailed information, one can go here:
http://www.danielsternlighting...sions/conversions.html

I seriously doubt that if your HID lights were evaluated scientifically they would still be producing a legal beam pattern, regardless of the perceived improvement.

ZV
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
I agree with ZV

That said, I'd kill the man who tried to take the HID's from my car. They ARE projector retrofits though, so they don't have that absurd glare. I've been pulled over a few times and no cop has ever said anything.

It is illegal though, no doubt in my mind ^_^
 

Apex

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
6,511
1
71
www.gotapex.com
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Apex
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Apex
HID bulbs may or may not change the cutoff. This is because the arc from the HID is bright at a slightly different place than the filament on the halogen bulb. Will it make the cutoff less sharp for sure? There's no way to tell until you test it. However, there's a pretty good chance it will. Definitely not 100% chance, like some would like to imply though.

Changing the shape and positioning WILL change the beam pattern. Period. The laws of optics do not bend because we want them to. Just because the cutoff looks clear does not mean that the beam pattern is acceptable. The cutoff is a very small part of the overall beam pattern.

There is a 100% chance that using a HID bulb in a housing designed for halogen filament bulbs will alter the beam pattern. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

ZV

I never said the beam pattern will not change, only the cutoff. Will the beam pattern get worse? Probably, but not necessarily. One assumes too much if he assumes the original beam pattern is the best. Often, the original beam pattern is already pretty compromised.

The fact remains that the only way to see if there is an improvement or reduction in usability and glare is to try it. Period.

I agree that you'll never know until you try it. Obviously if two bulbs place the filament/arc in different positions, it will change the beam characteristics. However, the plug-in HID kits do their best to place the arc in the same spot as the filament on the old bulb. It may not be exactly 100%, but most cars on the road aren't properly aimed anyway.

I can tell you from my own experience that the HID bulbs produced a beam pattern that was damn close to my old halogens, to the point of not even needing to be re-aimed. The beam pattern on my car most definitely did not experience this horrible degradation that some claimed it would.

The shape of the light source is very different. Even if it's in the same place (which it isn't, and no matter how close they get, it's still not right) the differing shapes will cause issues.

And the simple fact is that it remains illegal to put any headlight bulb into a socket not designed for it if you are going to drive the vehicle on public roads.

My position is always to do it right or not to bother. Doing it right in this case means replacing the entire assembly, including the reflector and lens.

For more detailed information, one can go here:
http://www.danielsternlighting...sions/conversions.html

I seriously doubt that if your HID lights were evaluated scientifically they would still be producing a legal beam pattern, regardless of the perceived improvement.

ZV

I absolutely agree on the legality issue, laws are laws. The same applies to tint location/height/darkness, anything hanging from your rearview mirror (those car fresheners are illegal), tire tread of a certain depth, stock Dodge SRT-4 exhausts (clearly illegal in a few states), driving over the speed limit, etc.

As to if it's possible to produce a good beam pattern using halogen and xenon bulbs in 1 headlight design, I believe it is. Hella does too (something Daniel Stern is wrong or lies about):

The Hella 90mm DE headlight module referenced in my post above. 1 Design, 2 part numbers (1 with Halogen bulb, other with Xenon)
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: shocksyde
Originally posted by: jamesbond007
So my roommate bought a couple sets of Xentec HID kits on eBay for about $80 per kit after shipping. Pretty good deal considering that many places want several hundred for a set installed. He bought a kit for his Yamaha R1 motorcycle and another for his 2004 Z71 truck.

Does anyone have any experiences with these kits? Are they really worth it? We powered them up with a battery starter box that my roommate has. They are ridiculously bright and get very hot. (obviously) Since these are drop-in replacements and use the stock mounts/light covers, I am a little concerned for the amount of heat dispersed. Does anyone run these things?

I have read on some other forums that the ballasts are somewhat susceptible to water leakage over time, but I have only read this comment once. Is the glare as bad as some say? After all, with these drop-ins, the light is not projected like a true HID setup. Instead, it's dispersed like the average bulb would be.

Thanks,
~Travis

Replacing a halogen projector is generally ok, but putting a HID kit in a reflector housing is blinding as hell for everyone on the road.


Depends which bulb you use - D2S (iirc) has a ceramic blackout strip to that no light goes down on the reflector and up to blind people
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

The shape of the light source is very different. Even if it's in the same place (which it isn't, and no matter how close they get, it's still not right) the differing shapes will cause issues.

And the simple fact is that it remains illegal to put any headlight bulb into a socket not designed for it if you are going to drive the vehicle on public roads.

My position is always to do it right or not to bother. Doing it right in this case means replacing the entire assembly, including the reflector and lens.

For more detailed information, one can go here:
http://www.danielsternlighting...sions/conversions.html

I seriously doubt that if your HID lights were evaluated scientifically they would still be producing a legal beam pattern, regardless of the perceived improvement.

ZV

I find it amazing that you take such a staunch stance without even seeing the headlights on my car. Such reasoning seems a bit foolish to me.

As far as evaluating it scientifically, I think if you did an analysis of most cars on the road you'd find that they're out of spec. It's doubtful that mind would be worse than average.

As far as the legality, I really don't give a shit. I live in NJ where everything's illegal anyway.
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,673
583
126
My question is where precisely do you find full HID headlights with housing and everything? Specifically I'm looking for ones for an 04 Expedition. Additionally, if it is a projector light, does that automatically mean its HID or can it still be halogen?
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
My question is where precisely do you find full HID headlights with housing and everything? Specifically I'm looking for ones for an 04 Expedition. Additionally, if it is a projector light, does that automatically mean its HID or can it still be halogen?

It doesn't exist unless your car has it as an option. Otherwise it's aftermarket/modded.


Projector can mean halogen or HID.
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,673
583
126
Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
My question is where precisely do you find full HID headlights with housing and everything? Specifically I'm looking for ones for an 04 Expedition. Additionally, if it is a projector light, does that automatically mean its HID or can it still be halogen?

It doesn't exist unless your car has it as an option. Otherwise it's aftermarket/modded.


Projector can mean halogen or HID.

I was indeed referring to aftermarket.
 

shabby

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,782
45
91
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
My question is where precisely do you find full HID headlights with housing and everything? Specifically I'm looking for ones for an 04 Expedition. Additionally, if it is a projector light, does that automatically mean its HID or can it still be halogen?

Ebay, just search for fx35 projectors. Or visit the forums at hidplanet.com for all your hid needs.
 

mooncancook

Platinum Member
May 28, 2003
2,874
50
91
Originally posted by: senseamp
I already have projector headlights in my Mazda3. Do I just pop these in?
Do I need a higher current harness? Will the housing handle the extra heat, if any?

I installed the Xenon Depot 43k kit in my Mazda6 which has halogen projector lenses like the Mazda3. It took me a while to figure out the wiring. Also I took out the reflectors inside the projector (a piece of metal) to reduce glare, and it worked out very well. The kit is "Plug n Play" so it included the voltage converting harness, and the HID bulbs are 35w so I believe they generate less heat.
 

Kroze

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2001
4,052
1
0
I have the aftermarket HID kit for my 06 civic and it work out great.

The stock civic headlamp have a great cutoff from the factory and with the HID kit installed, it look pretty good and with the cutoff from the stock headlamp, i haven't had a single person flashing me yet.
 

jamesbond007

Diamond Member
Dec 21, 2000
5,280
0
71
Originally posted by: mooncancook
The kit is "Plug n Play" so it included the voltage converting harness, and the HID bulbs are 35w so I believe they generate less heat.

My friend measured the temps and the HID lights get about 100F hotter than his stock halogens. I believe he said it was somewhere in the vicinity of 500-600F.
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,636
2
81
Originally posted by: jamesbond007
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
Look at the difference in the two cars in this. Which is more dazzling?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVuSSdZNsZw

PlasmaBomb, that's a great video! It makes some great points as well. I already knew about the glare problems that they create, but they are displayed with ease here.

Just FYI, I'm not advocating HID kits, (only the real stuff) but I was just asking if anyone had experience with them. I kinda gather the general concensus here on AT, so perhaps I'll let the thread drop. :p

Thanks :)
Zenmervolt knows his stuff (the legislation might slightly different on this side of the pond), so thanks :D