XenForo 2.0 Upgrade: Announcement and Feedback Thread

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,683
646
126
Kind of wish we could put our HeatWare account name in our Account Details... does anyone even use AIM or Yahoo messenger anymore?

apologies if that's been discussed or touched upon before.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
7,389
1,328
126
Seriously, Rep? More junk on the screen that shouldn't be there and will turn even more discussions into an us vs them. Rep is meaningless. Can we at least turn it off? I'd also prefer going back to only having the like button (especially the text only version), if we're going to turn the forums into Facebook, I might as well past there instead of here.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
7,389
1,328
126
Kind of wish we could put our HeatWare account name in our Account Details... does anyone even use AIM or Yahoo messenger anymore?

apologies if that's been discussed or touched upon before.
I'm pretty sure AIM is completely dead now.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
28,901
2,626
126
Fantastic changes / updates today.

I wouldn't mind removing the Likes, Trophies, and Reaction Bar. Or maybe just the Reaction Bar. Showcasing negativity is a recipe for certain social disaster.

It'd be easy to hide with CSS.

Example of what to hide:

target for not displaying.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba and zebrax2

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,174
519
126
Thanks for the fixes.

One thing, however, is that the forum layout showing things like OP, page links, number of replies, only kicks in at browser widths (from what I can tell) of at least 1200 pixels. This seems completely unnecessary to me. I'm not sure why/where the other variation of the layout is useful, but the corrected one works fine at browser windows much smaller than that.

I also agree that the reactions bar is a bit much. Maybe it's why that section was hidden in the original design.
 
Last edited:

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,071
461
136
Thumbs down for social credit. Don't like the "reaction" stuff one bit, and this is even worse. Even if you like such a thing, this implementation is bad. Imagine someone thinking that another person's technical advice is bad because of poor social credit, where they're just being mobbed by the other side in the politics forum. Bleh. Don't want.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba and UsandThem

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,174
519
126
The simple "likes" system was nice. Better, even. I'm looking at some other boards running XenForo 2 and 2.1 and they still have Likes, implemented exactly as it was here before, so I don't thinks it's gone away.

Don't know if this change is an add-on, a part of the theme, or just someone flipping a switch on a feature that isn't necessary or desired.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
101,027
15,157
136
have to agree: rep bar is a disaster of an idea. It is the absolute antithesis of honest social interaction.

likes were bad enough, but a bit easier to ignore. You can't ignore the rep system, and all it ever does is inspire complete anti-social behavior. It's the type of thing a first-year intern that grew up texting and defining all of their "friends" by interaction on facebook would think is a good idea.

It is a terrible, terrible idea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
15,749
4,712
136
Thumbs down for social credit. Don't like the "reaction" stuff one bit, and this is even worse. Even if you like such a thing, this implementation is bad. Imagine someone thinking that another person's technical advice is bad because of poor social credit, where they're just being mobbed by the other side in the politics forum. Bleh. Don't want.
Just another reason to avoid P&N.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
101,027
15,157
136
alerts isn't working. I was wondering why I was suddenly getting all these alerts, because I always had them off, but it looks like all "responses" including "likes" are now sending me alerts, even though I have that unchecked in my preferences.

It looks like there is no option for ZenForo 2.0 "responses"to be selected in preferences, and that likes are now considered just another type of "response," so currently no way to turn those alerts off?
 

jpishgar

VP, Global Community
Nov 24, 2014
406
59
101
www.futureplc.com
Of note, this is only Phase 0 of the upgrades planned. Phase 1 and Phase 1.5 will contain a more robust reputation system that will doubtless replace that green bar you see now listing Likes breakdowns.
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,174
519
126
IMO, you guys need to go back to the drawing board with the interface. Take the absolute bone-stock XenForo 2.1 default interface, slap on an AT logo and adjust the colors to suit, create a dark counterpart and roll that out.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
101,027
15,157
136
Of note, this is only Phase 0 of the upgrades planned. Phase 1 and Phase 1.5 will contain a more robust reputation system that will doubtless replace that green bar you see now listing Likes breakdowns.
It's not the hideous green bar that is the issue. It is actual existence of the reputation system. The mere concept of a reputation system is complete anathema to honest, positive, social interaction.

We're long enough into the internet forum and social media thing to understand that. It may create "attention" and tribalism, which is maybe good for "clicks," but don't ever confuse that with any kind of worthwhile positive mental human input. It is fundamentally destructive.

Just watch the animals in P&N furiously dislike the dislikable and vice versa.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
14,972
1,936
55
I think I've found a bug in the WYSIWYG editor. If I type {b}cool{/b} :cool: {i}beans{/i}, but with square brackets instead of braces, when I toggle BBCode on, it turns it into {b}cool{/b}:cool:{i}beans{/i}, removing the spaces.

cool :cool: beans

Edit: Fortunately it doesn't do it with BBCode off.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
28,901
2,626
126
It's not the hideous green bar that is the issue. It is actual existence of the reputation system. The mere concept of a reputation system is complete anathema to honest, positive, social interaction.

We're long enough into the internet forum and social media thing to understand that. It may create "attention" and tribalism, which is maybe good for "clicks," but don't ever confuse that with any kind of worthwhile positive mental human input. It is fundamentally destructive.

Just watch the animals in P&N furiously dislike the dislikable and vice versa.
It is admittedly a very good incentive to stop using P&N. If one were to care about one's "Reputation", they'd avoid all social controversy at all costs.
 

jpishgar

VP, Global Community
Nov 24, 2014
406
59
101
www.futureplc.com
Take the absolute bone-stock XenForo 2.1 default interface, slap on an AT logo and adjust the colors to suit, create a dark counterpart and roll that out.
You could also terminal into the BBS and engage at the command line in full ASCII glory... /sass

Seriously though - there's a significant number of improvements to the standard baseline theme in operation here. A lot of it is workflow for new users, mobile-friendly presentation, and quality of life upgrades. But - there might be some hyper-minimalist options available for theming after all the phases are rolled out and we're stable.

The mere concept of a reputation system is complete anathema to honest, positive, social interaction. We're long enough into the internet forum and social media thing to understand that. It may create "attention" and tribalism, which is maybe good for "clicks," but don't ever confuse that with any kind of worthwhile positive mental human input. It is fundamentally destructive. Just watch the animals in P&N furiously dislike the dislikable and vice versa.
The reputation system in full operation will preclude social areas - at least where certain aspects of the larger trophies and incentivized activities are concerned. Factionality and tribalism already exist in this and other forums, and the full reputation system (up to phase 3 of the Future Community Suite) takes this into consideration. My team and I have some experience in building these types of systems in a way that does produce positive outcomes without prompting any spike in toxicity or animosity between existing social lattices in communities. I'm less interested in "clicks" than I am in building strong, vibrant communities. Most of the reputation system will revolve around providing assistance to other users with issues, or offering valid, useful responses to legitimate questions. There's a sizable difference between questions like "What's the best way to apply thermal paste?" and "What's your favorite movie?"/"Which politician is the worst?". The prior could use a nudge in the right direction - the latter tend to themselves.

If one were to care about one's "Reputation", they'd avoid all social controversy at all costs.
Hence the exclusion! Contentiousness and respectful factional disagreement shouldn't be disincentivized, and there's never a solid rationale to enable a bandwagon's punitive capabilities.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
28,901
2,626
126
Quite informative and responsive. Thank you.

There are, of course, considerable challenges in managing a Reputation system. Do Intel fans down vote news for AMD, or vise versa? Is bad news (a pattern of hardware failures) met with down votes? Are people going to down vote the user, the quality of their post, or the story that was linked as a news source? So many ways Reputation by users can be unruly.

I had an idea, and perhaps sharing it could be topical. When considering the prior "Reputation" system with a simple like button, perhaps a hand picked moderator team should be the ones up voting and thus highlighting, guiding, and reinforcing positive and constructive behavior. They could have guidelines to follow, and an occasional review on their use of it. Moderators would be reading the forums looking for posts to highlight and reward with reputation. Could even keep existing post reactions for all users, but disconnect it from a user's reputation beyond that post. Sticking to moderators for decisive action on moving a user's long term reputation.

Just an idea, perhaps, to provide structure and attempt to curtail abuse.

Honestly not sure what we gain from, or why we would necessarily care about forum reputation. Notoriety maybe... with a filter to highlight reputable topics and posts. Titles, maybe, to denote positive standing in the community. I look forward to hearing what your team has come up with when the time is right. No rush, just an interesting topic.

Again, thank you for investing in this forum.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
15,749
4,712
136
I have no idea why anyone fell in love with reputation systems to begin with. Likes/upvotes promote all kinds of odd behavior. Anyone who watched Slashdot over the years with their karma system should have been able to figure out why any kind of reputation system invites abuse. I used to do some really silly trolling over there by whoring for karma and then responding respectfully to hideous trolls while posting at a 2. Anyone who wanted to downmod me to a -1 along with the troll, had to downmod me 3 times to pull it off. It was glorious and profane. At least here, the reputation system does not seem to confer any privileges (yet). Heaven help us should that change.

I see the need for a change in software to keep up with modern technology. People browse with smartphones now, so of course we have a mobile-first design ethos. People's tastes in UI change constantly. I get it, I get it. But the change in culture is completely unnecessary.

The likes system was pretty weak as it was. What was the point? I apparently have over 1300 of them, but I've never once given one out to anyone else. I would much rather engage with other users based on whatever it is they are posting today, rather than what they allegedly did well in the past. Sure, the likes system helped us differentiate between spammers/newbies (low post count, few likes) and experienced posters. In my experience, though, if you felt like you needed some likes to build your rep, it sure was possible to spout groupthink to achieve that goal. Hell I wasn't even trying and I broke 1k . . .
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
7,389
1,328
126
You could also terminal into the BBS and engage at the command line in full ASCII glory... /sass

Seriously though - there's a significant number of improvements to the standard baseline theme in operation here. A lot of it is workflow for new users, mobile-friendly presentation, and quality of life upgrades. But - there might be some hyper-minimalist options available for theming after all the phases are rolled out and we're stable.
The mobile presentation is currently awful. I've basically stopped coming here on my phone after the update. The interface lacks basic things like page numbers. Things jump around. All the extra junk, like "Ask the Community" all still loads.

The reputation system in full operation will preclude social areas - at least where certain aspects of the larger trophies and incentivized activities are concerned. Factionality and tribalism already exist in this and other forums, and the full reputation system (up to phase 3 of the Future Community Suite) takes this into consideration. My team and I have some experience in building these types of systems in a way that does produce positive outcomes without prompting any spike in toxicity or animosity between existing social lattices in communities. I'm less interested in "clicks" than I am in building strong, vibrant communities. Most of the reputation system will revolve around providing assistance to other users with issues, or offering valid, useful responses to legitimate questions. There's a sizable difference between questions like "What's the best way to apply thermal paste?" and "What's your favorite movie?"/"Which politician is the worst?". The prior could use a nudge in the right direction - the latter tend to themselves.

Hence the exclusion! Contentiousness and respectful factional disagreement shouldn't be disincentivized, and there's never a solid rationale to enable a bandwagon's punitive capabilities.
We've never had a rep system here before, why do we all of a sudden need one, especially when everyone posting here is against it? The systems breed anti-social behavior and are annoying. Even the sports forums I go to have gotten rid of rep systems because there were so annoying and encouraged bad posting habits.

I seriously doubt anyone is going to look at the rep and think "I am going to ignore this guy's logical technical response because he has 1/3 red, but I am going to blindly follow this guy's illogical one because he is 95% green." And then the guy that is 1/3 red leaves the forums because no one cares about his posts any more. Also, currently, the rep is being impacted by social sub-forums. Good way to kill the most visited sub-forums.

At least let us turn it off, I can decide for myself whose posts I care about.
 
Last edited:

FeuerFrei

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2005
9,152
925
126
The favicon.ico for forums.anandtech.com is now a xenForo logo. Might want to replace that.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
15,749
4,712
136
At least let us turn it off, I can decide for myself whose posts I care about.
I would definitely go for that option. No more bar, no more likes, no more trophies. You can display yours if you want, but mine will go in the basement.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY