Xbox360 backwards compatibility explained

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: SilverTorch
can someone explain why patching is bad?

It's bad if a game you like wasn't a "best seller" and so MS doesn't offer a patch, and the game doesn't run.

In short, if you have an Xbox1 and play more than Halo, you should probably keep it until you know whether all your games will run on 360.

And if you don't have an Xbox1 yet, don't assume buying the Xbox360 will let you play any specific Xbox1 game except Halo without checking a compatibility list.

They've said that pretty much all games that come on a single-layer DVD will work fine. The Xbox360 will have patches already loaded on the hard drive for games that run on dual-layer DVDs. If problems are encountered, then they'll make patches available.

Sounds like the majority of the games should work. Keep in mind that not even all PS1 games were compatible with the PS2. So, at least MS is keeping it open to fix potential problems.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Queasy
They've said that pretty much all games that come on a single-layer DVD will work fine. The Xbox360 will have patches already loaded on the hard drive for games that run on dual-layer DVDs. If problems are encountered, then they'll make patches available.

I don't see "DVD" in your quote, I read "layers" as hardware abstraction layers, i.e. pure non-GPU-specific DirectX calls vs. programs that access specific features of the nvidia GPU that don't exist in ATI GPUs (and can't be abstracted automatically).

Guessing now, but there are 2 levels of abstraction for writing to the nvidia GPU, higher level code (specific library calls) that can be emulated automatically with a fixed translation layer used by all programs, vs. the equivalent of assembly language for the GPU than must be patched / translated on a program by program basis.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: Queasy
They've said that pretty much all games that come on a single-layer DVD will work fine. The Xbox360 will have patches already loaded on the hard drive for games that run on dual-layer DVDs. If problems are encountered, then they'll make patches available.

I don't see "DVD" in your quote, I read "layers" as hardware abstraction layers, i.e. pure non-GPU-specific DirectX calls vs. programs that access specific features of the nvidia GPU that don't exist in ATI GPUs (and can't be abstracted automatically).

Guessing now, but there are 2 levels of abstraction for writing to the nvidia GPU, higher level code (specific library calls) that can be emulated automatically with a fixed translation layer used by all programs, vs. the equivalent of assembly language for the GPU than must be patched / translated on a program by program basis.

Possible that it is that too. I just read "For games written in a single layer
(management assumes that this is a large percentage of Xbox games), the hardware emulation should perform well. " as speaking about DVD layers. They weren't specific either way but your thought makes more sense since it was in the same paragraph that they were talking about Nvidia GPU royalties.

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: SilverTorch
can someone explain why patching is bad?

It's bad if a game you like wasn't a "best seller" and so MS doesn't offer a patch, and the game doesn't run.

In short, if you have an Xbox1 and play more than Halo, you should probably keep it until you know whether all your games will run on 360.

And if you don't have an Xbox1 yet, don't assume buying the Xbox360 will let you play any specific Xbox1 game except Halo without checking a compatibility list.

They've said that pretty much all games that come on a single-layer DVD will work fine. The Xbox360 will have patches already loaded on the hard drive for games that run on dual-layer DVDs. If problems are encountered, then they'll make patches available.

Sounds like the majority of the games should work. Keep in mind that not even all PS1 games were compatible with the PS2. So, at least MS is keeping it open to fix potential problems.

Which PS1 games aren't PS2 compatible? I'm not aware of any.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Which PS1 games aren't PS2 compatible? I'm not aware of any.

A half-dozen titles only released in Japan, and I think some menu corruption on the original version of one of the Final Fantasy games (fixed in the Greatest Hits version).

 

[Wingznut]

I couldn't care less about backwards compatibility. I bought the PS2 within a week or two of the launch, and I am fairly certain that it has never seen a PS1 disc.

If there are Xbox games that I want to continue to play that aren't supported on the Xbox 360, then both of my Xbox's will co-exist side by side. No biggie. *shrugs*

 

[Deeko]

I'll probably be getting a PS3 or Revolution. I'm unimpressed with Xbox360.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Deeko
I'll probably be getting a PS3 or Revolution. I'm unimpressed with Xbox360.

But you are "impressed" with the Revolution? Absolutely NOTHING has been shown or detailed yet.

At any rate, it's way too early to say what's impressive and what's not. Everything you've seen thus far has been incomplete, and running on inadequate dev test kits.

 

[Blayze]

Well thats not good. Guess I'll keep my XBox after I get a 360.

Any ideal of how long they will still sell the XBox after the 360 is out?

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Deeko
I'll probably be getting a PS3 or Revolution. I'm unimpressed with Xbox360.

But you are "impressed" with the Revolution? Absolutely NOTHING has been shown or detailed yet.

At any rate, it's way too early to say what's impressive and what's not. Everything you've seen thus far has been incomplete, and running on inadequate dev test kits.

Clearly no, since we don't know anything about Revolution, but I've typically liked Nintendo's systems. I love my gamecube, and backwards compatibility with it would be huge. I've made no decisions as to what I'll get at this point, but with what I know so far, and history of the companies, that's where I stand.

 

[Shawn]

hahaha

 

[0roo0roo]

patching a new game that should be done is bad

updates for backwards compatibility where they have to customize for different games isn't bad. its free additional capability of something they couldn't possibly finish on release considering the size of the library.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: loki8481
ouch.

gotta wonder how much money Microsoft is comitted to sink into xbox... did the first one ever turn a profit?

Yes, and MS didnt expect it to.

 

[Acanthus]

I dont get all the backwards compatiblity freaks.

If you have old games, you obviously have the console... if for some reason you dont have the console, guess what, THE NEWER CONSOLE IS OUT! and you can get the old console for $50 or less.

 

[0roo0roo]

pretty much. old games are bonus..nostolgia only kinda items a "some day i might use it, but never really will" feature. i have several emu's on my pc for sh*ts and giggles. haven't touched em since install and test. was novelty sure, but thats all.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
I dont get all the backwards compatiblity freaks.

If you have old games, you obviously have the console... if for some reason you dont have the console, guess what, THE NEWER CONSOLE IS OUT! and you can get the old console for $50 or less.

I don't want my SNES, N64, GameCube and Revolution stacked in a clusterfvck of consoles next to my TV.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: NutBucket
PS3 > Xbox360

At least Microsoft has confirmed backwards compatability for the 360.

Sony: *crickets chirping*

EDIT: I am presuming that the single layer/multiple layers are not referring to the disc they are pressed on but instead either the graphical presentation of the game or the actual framework of the background code.

i was assuming it was the actual layers on the disc (single layer or dual layer games) because I guess all the data retrieval on the 2nd layer of a disc just works much differently than the single layer portion.

again, that is just an assumption. i have no clue how data is retrieved off of a DVD in general, but I was under that assumption.

Nah...it definitely has to do with the "level" at which the software was written. If the game was written purely making calls to directX, then there shouldn't be a problem. I'm sure that there are plenty of specific extensions that nVidia made available to developers that were not part of Direct X. If the developers coded directly for these and bypassed Direct X (might be for performance or feature reasons), then MS would have to emulate these capabilities...

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
i personally dont give a crap about the backwards compatiblity. i played a psx game maybe 2 times in my ps2, and that was pretty much just to try out the functionality.

however since many of the xbox games will be able to be played on the new xbox live, i may use this a little more. there are only a handful of games on dual layered discs. halo 2 is over by like less than 100mb.

QFT

 

[StageLeft]

Backwards compatitbility is of zero interest to me, so I couldn't care less if it works or not Move forward, not backward.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Acanthus
I dont get all the backwards compatiblity freaks.

If you have old games, you obviously have the console... if for some reason you dont have the console, guess what, THE NEWER CONSOLE IS OUT! and you can get the old console for $50 or less.

I don't want my SNES, N64, GameCube and Revolution stacked in a clusterfvck of consoles next to my TV.

If you really play your SNES or N64 even rarely, you are very much in the minority.

I can see playing old games for a minute or two, for the nostalgia... But I can't stand them for longer than that.