Xbox360 backwards compatibility explained

[Queasy]

Link

Microsoft Press Briefing

The most important announcement at this event was the demonstration of the Xbox 360, planned for release this holiday season. Company management stated that the Xbox 360 would be backward compatible for ?most top selling Xbox games?, and pledged ?support ? for the current generation Xbox ?well into 2006?. Two weeks ago, we noted our
concern that the Xbox 360 may not be backward compatible with Xbox software due to a change in graphics processor chipset manufacturers from Nvidia to ATI. In a separate meeting with Microsoft management, we confirmed that the company has agreed to pay a small royalty to Nvidia to allow the Xbox 360?s ATI chipset to emulate the performance of the Nvidia chipset in reading certain Xbox games. For games written in a single layer
(management assumes that this is a large percentage of Xbox games), the hardware emulation should perform well.

For games written in multiple layers, a further emulation must be provided. The company intends to create software ?patches? (i.e., separate emulation programs) for top-selling Xbox games written in multiple layers, and intends to sell the Xbox 360 with a hard drive that is pre-loaded with these patches. We presume that the majority of Xbox games will be backward compatible, and the company assured us that it intends to add patches should consumer demand warrant such action.

We are less confident about Microsoft?s intentions regarding the current generation Xbox. The company?s pledge of ?support? is broad, but we believe that it does not equate to ?manufacture? of Xboxes. Rather, we believe that the company has stockpiled a number of Nvidia chipsets, and is prepared to manufacture current generation Xboxes through the end of 2005, and perhaps for a few months beyond. The implications of this are difficult to assess: on the one hand, it is likely that the company will focus all of its marketing efforts on the rollout of the Xbox 360, and phase out the Xbox rapidly, resulting in a rapid ramp in sales of the new hardware; on the other hand, it is possible that Microsoft will be unable to satisfy demand for the 360, and may experience a decline in demand for current generation Xbox software, resulting in lower overall industry sales growth this year. We believe that the latter scenario is likely to occur, and note that it could impact overall industry sales growth by approximately 100 bps in 2005.

One final takeaway: Microsoft did not discuss pricing for the Xbox 360, but assured us in our meeting with management that ?neither you nor consumers will be shocked? at the price. This implies to us that the device will be priced below $400, and may possibly be priced at $350. As discussed below, we expect Sony?s entry to be priced higher, potentially providing Microsoft with an additional competitive advantage.

 

[Reel]

repost

 

[NutBucket]

Ha, software patches!

PS3 > Xbox360

 

[purbeast0]

i personally dont give a crap about the backwards compatiblity. i played a psx game maybe 2 times in my ps2, and that was pretty much just to try out the functionality.

however since many of the xbox games will be able to be played on the new xbox live, i may use this a little more. there are only a handful of games on dual layered discs. halo 2 is over by like less than 100mb.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
however since many of the xbox games will be able to be played on the new xbox live, i may use this a little more. there are only a handful of games on dual layered discs. halo 2 is over by like less than 100mb.

Especially with some great Xbox games being released not long before the 360 comes out (Conker, Forza, etc)

 

[Passions]

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....

...checking xboxupdates.com

Welcome
Pick updates to install
Review and install updates

:disgust:

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: NutBucket
PS3 > Xbox360

At least Microsoft has confirmed backwards compatability for the 360.

Sony: *crickets chirping*

EDIT: I am presuming that the single layer/multiple layers are not referring to the disc they are pressed on but instead either the graphical presentation of the game or the actual framework of the background code.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: NutBucket
PS3 > Xbox360

At least Microsoft has confirmed backwards compatability for the 360.

Sony: *crickets chirping*

EDIT: I am presuming that the single layer/multiple layers are not referring to the disc they are pressed on but instead either the graphical presentation of the game or the actual framework of the background code.

i was assuming it was the actual layers on the disc (single layer or dual layer games) because I guess all the data retrieval on the 2nd layer of a disc just works much differently than the single layer portion.

again, that is just an assumption. i have no clue how data is retrieved off of a DVD in general, but I was under that assumption.

 

[UNCjigga]

Originally posted by: Passions
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....

...checking xboxupdates.com

Welcome
Pick updates to install
Review and install updates

:disgust:

:laugh:

 

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: NutBucket
PS3 > Xbox360

At least Microsoft has confirmed backwards compatability for the 360.

Sony: *crickets chirping*

EDIT: I am presuming that the single layer/multiple layers are not referring to the disc they are pressed on but instead either the graphical presentation of the game or the actual framework of the background code.

It has been confirmed that the PS3 will be backwards compatable if that's what you're wondering about.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614620p1.html

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: NutBucket
Ha, software patches!

PS3 > Xbox360

It will probably run a lite version of Windows Update.

I don't know... I've been saving my pennies and waiting patiently until PS3 came out before I bought my first console system since my Sega Genesis... but, the Nintendo Revolution is starting to look very appealing, and that has backwards compatibility on many of it's games...

 

[Rock Hydra]

Originally posted by: NutBucket
Ha, software patches!

Atari 2600 > Xbox360

 

[NogginBoink]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: NutBucket
PS3 > Xbox360

At least Microsoft has confirmed backwards compatability for the 360.

Sony: *crickets chirping*

EDIT: I am presuming that the single layer/multiple layers are not referring to the disc they are pressed on but instead either the graphical presentation of the game or the actual framework of the background code.

i was assuming it was the actual layers on the disc (single layer or dual layer games) because I guess all the data retrieval on the 2nd layer of a disc just works much differently than the single layer portion.

again, that is just an assumption. i have no clue how data is retrieved off of a DVD in general, but I was under that assumption.

Sounds fishy to me. The nVidia chipset has nothing to do with pulling data off the DVD. The DVD drive does all that; all the Xbox sees is the IDE interface.

 

[Siva]

Originally posted by: NogginBoink

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: NutBucket
PS3 > Xbox360

At least Microsoft has confirmed backwards compatability for the 360.

Sony: *crickets chirping*

EDIT: I am presuming that the single layer/multiple layers are not referring to the disc they are pressed on but instead either the graphical presentation of the game or the actual framework of the background code.

i was assuming it was the actual layers on the disc (single layer or dual layer games) because I guess all the data retrieval on the 2nd layer of a disc just works much differently than the single layer portion.

again, that is just an assumption. i have no clue how data is retrieved off of a DVD in general, but I was under that assumption.

Sounds fishy to me. The nVidia chipset has nothing to do with pulling data off the DVD. The DVD drive does all that; all the Xbox sees is the IDE interface.

Why would you have to emulate some way to read a DVD? That is a problem that could easily be solved in the hardware. Dual layered must mean something else.

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: Siva

Originally posted by: NogginBoink

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: NutBucket
PS3 > Xbox360

At least Microsoft has confirmed backwards compatability for the 360.

Sony: *crickets chirping*

EDIT: I am presuming that the single layer/multiple layers are not referring to the disc they are pressed on but instead either the graphical presentation of the game or the actual framework of the background code.

i was assuming it was the actual layers on the disc (single layer or dual layer games) because I guess all the data retrieval on the 2nd layer of a disc just works much differently than the single layer portion.

again, that is just an assumption. i have no clue how data is retrieved off of a DVD in general, but I was under that assumption.

Sounds fishy to me. The nVidia chipset has nothing to do with pulling data off the DVD. The DVD drive does all that; all the Xbox sees is the IDE interface.

Why would you have to emulate some way to read a DVD? That is a problem that could easily be solved in the hardware. Dual layered must mean something else.

Well, that and DVDs have a maximum of two layers, so "multiple layers" sounds, well, stupid.

 

[DaveSimmons]

By layers they mean layers of indirection from the hardware, e.g. using non-GPU-specific DirectX vs. using escapes to directly call nvidia-specific features of the GPU.

 

[frankgomez75]

PS3 fanboys and Xbox fanboys are PVSSIES

Buy both and stop crying about which is better..... if you can't afford both too bad! Get a better job.

 

[nageov3t]

ouch.

gotta wonder how much money Microsoft is comitted to sink into xbox... did the first one ever turn a profit?

 

[Siva]

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: Siva

Originally posted by: NogginBoink

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: NutBucket
PS3 > Xbox360

At least Microsoft has confirmed backwards compatability for the 360.

Sony: *crickets chirping*

EDIT: I am presuming that the single layer/multiple layers are not referring to the disc they are pressed on but instead either the graphical presentation of the game or the actual framework of the background code.

i was assuming it was the actual layers on the disc (single layer or dual layer games) because I guess all the data retrieval on the 2nd layer of a disc just works much differently than the single layer portion.

again, that is just an assumption. i have no clue how data is retrieved off of a DVD in general, but I was under that assumption.

Sounds fishy to me. The nVidia chipset has nothing to do with pulling data off the DVD. The DVD drive does all that; all the Xbox sees is the IDE interface.

Why would you have to emulate some way to read a DVD? That is a problem that could easily be solved in the hardware. Dual layered must mean something else.

Well, that and DVDs have a maximum of two layers, so "multiple layers" sounds, well, stupid.

good point, that makes much more sense. I missed that.

 

[SilverTorch]

can someone explain why patching is bad?

 

[frankgomez75]

Originally posted by: loki8481
ouch.

gotta wonder how much money Microsoft is comitted to sink into xbox... did the first one ever turn a profit?

The systems are expected to cost Microsoft $375
They will probably retail for $300 and Microsoft will eat the other $75

The xbox division turned its first profits in Q4 of 2004

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: SilverTorch
can someone explain why patching is bad?

It's bad if a game you like wasn't a "best seller" and so MS doesn't offer a patch, and the game doesn't run.

In short, if you have an Xbox1 and play more than Halo, you should probably keep it until you know whether all your games will run on 360.

And if you don't have an Xbox1 yet, don't assume buying the Xbox360 will let you play any specific Xbox1 game except Halo without checking a compatibility list.

 

[SilverTorch]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: SilverTorch
can someone explain why patching is bad?

It's bad if a game you like wasn't a "best seller" and so MS doesn't offer a patch, and the game doesn't run.

In short, if you have an Xbox1 and play more than Halo, you should probably keep it until you know whether all your games will run on 360.

And if you don't have an Xbox1 yet, don't assume buying the Xbox360 will let you play any specific Xbox1 game except Halo without checking a compatibility list.

I guess the patching for backward compatability is bad, but patching overall is not a bad thing.

 

[Staples]

Originally posted by: Passions
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....

...checking xboxupdates.com

Welcome
Pick updates to install
Review and install updates

:disgust:

That made my day. Just like Windowsupdate.com

Anyway, it is already taken.

Domain Name: XBOXUPDATES.COM
Created on: 07-Dec-03
Expires on: 07-Dec-05
Last Updated on: 17-Nov-04

 

[BCYL]

Originally posted by: loki8481
ouch.

gotta wonder how much money Microsoft is comitted to sink into xbox... did the first one ever turn a profit?

Halo 2 helped the Xbox division turn a profit...