Xbox vs. Geforce 4 ti4600's graphics capabilities

[alphatarget1]

I was in a debate with some dude...

What do you think?

 

[BD231]

ti4600 is faster

 

[Dion Unroe]

I believe that the xbox runs normally at 640x480 and 800x600 at max (HDTV)

Now with the Geforce cards they can go way higher in resolution ( as high as 2048 x 1536 ) and have everything maxed and still play smoothly...

Xbox software is made for the xbox..

PC, well they have to make it very diverse to allow for a wide range of hardware configs.

I have seen the xbox and it is impressive... I still prefer PC gaming.

Nothing like making your own GAMING MACHINE!

 

[cholley]

xbox uses nv17 chip i think?
ti4600 is nv25.
the xbox works so well because there are no system variables
you can put the ti4600 in a crap machine and get crap results
chip for chip the nv25 is better

 

[Byte]

the Xbox uses the (officially) NV2X chip, most call it the NV2A though. So it's Geforce4 class. Clocks and RAM are slower so it's not as fast as a the PC counterparts. It probably uses most of Geforce4s advance architectures. So the Geforce4 Tis can do everything the Xbox can do in higher resolutions and faster too. Now if they only port all the xbox games to pc........

 

[DeathByDuke]

nVidia officially began working on the XGPU two months after Geforce3... it uses exactly the same technology as Geforce3 and no higher, final silicon for the XGPU was finished three months before US launch, Geforce4 however didn't get finalized till December, though some beta silicon was shown in November 2001, so technically, Geforce3 equals XBox on details, excluding the second vertex shader which is also in Geforce4.
XBox can do a max of 120Million Polygons a second while a Ti4600 can sustain around 136Million and has a max (theorectically) of 170Million.... just take away about 20 - 30 on those numbers for Ti4400 and again for Ti4200 - they are no slouches. Just wait for R300 though, i reckon it will have THREE Vertex shaders and TWO Pixel shaders (GF4 2, and 1) plus those 8 pipelines for a possible 300 - 400 core means it will easily reach around 3 Billion pixels a second and maybe even 300Million polys!
(think how fast Unreal Tourney2 would run! Forget Doom3 though - NV35 even NV40 will be out by the time that comes out!)

 

[Operandi]

Spec to spec a high-end PC with a Ti 4600 would hand the Xbox's ass to it in a hand basket. I believe Byte is correct, the Geforce4 and the graphics chip in the Xbox are esensally the same with a huge speed advantage going to the Ti4600.

Xbox software is made for the Xbox.

Actually Xbox software is made for an Intel P3, an Nforce MB, and a GeFroce graphics card. The reason Xbox games look so good is because the games are written with a Geforce3/4 as the lowest denominator. With PC's we still have ppl gaming on Voodoo3's and TNT's as the lowest denominator.

 

[RanDum72]

If you are looking at the graphics chip alone, the Ti 4600 is faster. But its the overall perfromance that counts. The XBOX doesn't have windows running with numerous thingies running in the background. Games written for it are optimized and not compromised to allow room for different PC configurations. Multiplayer doesn't mean having another console or PC. Best of all, you can hook it up to your big screen TV and still look awesome

 

[anthrax]

well...xbox software isn't specifically written to work on P3...but instead was written to run on x86 instruction set....I also be willing to bet that Xbox software isn't specifically written to work on Nvida Nv whatever graphics chips...its written for some specialized API based heavily on Direct-X.....
I would also speculate that the MS made the Xbox platform so isn't specific Hardware.... it would be against MS own priciple on .NET ...........ie. Xbox could well be made with ATI Graphics chips and AMD CPUs...

so Xbox software is made for the Xbox. and not Actually Xbox software is made for an Intel P3, an Nforce MB, and a GeFroce graphics card

 

[anthrax]

I would also like to point out that
I believe that the xbox runs normally at 640x480 and 800x600 at max (HDTV)

so I would say the X-GPU is more than fast enough for the job it has to do....

 

[Operandi]

well...xbox software isn't specifically written to work on P3...but instead was written to run on x86 instruction set

You're right, I'm sure any x86 CPU would run Xbox games just fine. However I'm sure that when developers wrote their code they did it with the specs of the Xbox CPU in mind. Just to get ever bit of performance they could from it, through SSE, making effective use of the cache ect. I don?t there is much of a chance of running an Xbox game with any other graphics chip other what it was originally designed with though. Just look at how many PC games have issues/glitches from hardware to hardware, and these games are written with knowledge of all the various hardware configs.

so Xbox software is made for the Xbox. and not Actually Xbox software is made for an Intel P3, an Nforce MB, and a GeFroce graphics card

A P3, Nforce MB and GeForce graphics card is an Xbox. Aside from the graphics chip you can go out and buy and
assembly your self a PC with almost the exact same hardware configuration.

 

[anthrax]

hmmm....
actually i would have to dissagree with you....

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In any modern computer ...it is very unlike likely a user program (game ) would have direct access to the hardware.......It would never happen in a win XP system......and i doubt it would happen on the X-box...

 

[Operandi]

In any modern computer ...it is very unlike likely a user program (game ) would have direct access to the hardware.......It would never happen in a win XP system......and i doubt it would happen on the X-box...

I doubt any developers are righting directly to the hardware itself too, even if they could. Still, you don?t need to have direct access to the hardware to make optimizations for it.

 

[alphatarget1]

so, if a emulator for Xbox exists for a PC and I run it under these configurations:

p4 2.2ghz northwood
256mb rambus pc800
geforce 4 ti 4600 64mb
sound blaster audigy ex platinum
windows 2000
SCSI 18.6gb 15k hard drive

It'd kick xbox's butt right? I have no money to buy new hardware but then these are all theroetical that geforce 4 ti will dominate. It might cost too much compare to xbox but then PC gives you a lot more flexibility.

as for x86 compatibility, can't you use software decode or something if your CPU doesn't support xbox codes?

Thanks for the input!

 

[Neurofreeze]

If I remember correctly, the Xbox uses a heavily modified and stripped down version of Windows based on Win2k (no DLL's, for one). So yes, there is an operating system. All three consoles do. Even the PS2 has an operating system (hence the new Linux PS2's).

As for an emulator, seems possible. Are current DVD drives capable of reading DVD's backwards (since the XBox DVDs are written from the outer edge-inwards)?

 

[Aquaman]

I could be wrong but I think I remember reading somewhere that you can't read an X-box disc in a computer DVD/CD rom drive. I think It's propritary

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[FrustratedUser]

GF4 Ti4600 <---- winner

 

[SteelCityFan]

4600 easily.

With the XBox, you are forced to game in low resolutions. For this reason, I don't see myself spending $300 on a game console anytime soon.

 

[ragiepew]

The xbox also has UMA (unified memory architecture) giving it a big advantage on bandwith over PC's today. Also, as some have mentioned, games are written specifically for xbox hardware (no not ports...) and therefore can take full advantage of the hardware capabilities... something you TI 4600 owners wont have for some 2-3 years... if even by then. I agree that all things considered a high end PC is more powerful... but does that mean that the games will be better (ie. better looking)? That could take some time. Also, lots of people complain about the resolution of TV's... yea its a big issue if you're sitting less than 1 foot from the TV... but if you're like most people you sit farther than that. Resolution is important when you're close to the monitor/tv... hence the high res' on monitors which give you a nice crisp picture...

So, what does this mean for an emulator? First of all you have to find out how to get the games off of the disks... even if you could do that AND program the emulator you're still left with the fact that games that take advantage of xbox hardware will have a hard time running on today's PC's. On xbox they run @ 640x480 and most w/o FSAA... up the resolution and add some FSAA and you'll be crawling. Remember, xbox games are not designed w/ Voodoo 3 and TNT2 owners in mind... they're designed w/ GeForce 3 users in mind.

now dont go labeling me a fanboy, i own an xbox, gamecube, and a pretty nifty PC... i'm just a guy that likes videogames... period.

 

[HardWareXpert]

Try playing a PS2 on a monitor and you'll see how ugly it really is and how much better a PC looks, I play all my games in 1280x1024x32/FSAA x2/Quincunx, I have a GF4 Ti4400 and consoles look grainy and blured.

 

[anthrax]

I really doubt it that X-box is written specifically to support to

GAME ====> API ====> Device Driver ====>Phyisical hardware implementation.

The game is written to confirm with the API......The device driver was written to conform with the API.....The API of course would support features........thats how it should work shouldn't it.....? any comments welcome....?

 

[Desturel]

Xbox with a good upscan converter is better than my GF3. I don't have a GF4, but making a quick guess, I would say the Xbox with a good upscan converter would look better than a GF4 as well. People comparing the Xbox's graphics to the PS2's graphics haven't played an Xbox on a decent setup. Hell, the Dreamcast with a VGA adaptor looks much better than any of the PS2 games I've seen so far.

 

[MrWhiteUK]

<< has a max (theorectically) of 170Million >>




<< maybe even 300Million polys >>



300 million polygons per second via the agp port, I think not.

 

[xype]

<< 300 million polygons per second via the agp port, I think not. >>


Maybe after S3 inveted texture compression ATI now invented "Polygon Compression(tm)" which works at a 2:1 rate!
The models might sometimes look as if they have half the polygons though. But that's not the point. Point is you can
throw 300 m at it and it works as fast as with 150!

 

[Hector13]

<< I really doubt it that X-box is written specifically to support to

GAME ====> API ====> Device Driver ====>Phyisical hardware implementation.

The game is written to confirm with the API......The device driver was written to conform with the API.....The API of course would support features........thats how it should work shouldn't it.....? any comments welcome....? >>



Jeez, its been explained about 5 times already. The games are made assuming that the lowest chipset used will be what is in the Xbox. In other words, an xbox developer doesn't have to worry about what a game will look/play like on my crapp ATI Rage 128 card.