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Discussion Xbox Helix (Magnus SoC) thread

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ToTTenTranz said:
Unless the NPU and GPU can snoop into each other's caches, the answer is probably nothing.
Click to expand...
I saw video from GDC where they demoed co-pilot on Xbox. The idea is prob you can talk to the console and it can guide player and answer and questions. Hopefully not autocomplete BS.
That's prob the limits of the feature realistically. Maybe some background stuff offloaded. Anything else has to run on GPU due to latency reasons for reasons you laid out.
 
Edit: Ignore this. XSX doesn't have Work Graphs support.
Very confused by this but it checks out:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2033052366854041873

As you can see here:
news.xbox.com

Defining the Next Generation: An Xbox Series X|S Technology Glossary - Xbox Wire

[Editor’s Note: Updated on 10/21 at 11AM to ensure it is now reflective of the capabilities across both of our next-gen Xbox consoles following the unveil of Xbox Series S.] As we enter a new generation of console gaming with Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S, we’ve made a number of technology...
news.xbox.com news.xbox.com

And here:

DirectX-Specs

Engineering specs for DirectX features.
microsoft.github.io

This looks like >RDNA2 spec similar to the SFS HW customizations.

Best case MS provides emulation fallback for old HW and unifies native workgraphs support via next GDK for XSX, XSS, and Helix. Also Sony does some form of emulation similar to vkd3d-proton to support it on PS5 and PS5 Pro with PS6 having native support.

Worst case everyone ignores it and we won't see games using it till +5 years from now.

Even if emulation is not optimal, it's still far better than EI. Fingers crossed we see a paradigm shift during crossgen rather than well into 2030s.
 
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ToTTenTranz said:
The game is launching this year.


Regardless, GTA VI PC launching within a handful months after console might be quite the blow to Sony.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had been assuming the console exclusive window would span at least 12 months?

From Rockstar's perspective, it would likely benefit them to shorten the window, since like most generational popular titles, you'll have lots of gamers (I'm guilty of this) who will buy the game on both console and PC.

The console launch is stated for Nov? I'll probably start GTA V late Summer, just in case I may catch the launch-day buy now bug. Few games can get me to impulse buy it on day one, but Rockstar along with FromSoft are probably the only studios who may get me to bite.

I'm actually really looking forward to this game and all the wonderful content we're certain to see out there when it's finally here.
 
MoragaBlue said:
Yeah, I had been assuming the console exclusive window would span at least 12 months?

From Rockstar's perspective, it would likely benefit them to shorten the window, since like most generational popular titles, you'll have lots of gamers (I'm guilty of this) who will buy the game on both console and PC.

The console launch is stated for Nov? I'll probably start GTA V late Summer, just in case I may catch the launch-day buy now bug. Few games can get me to impulse buy it on day one, but Rockstar along with FromSoft are probably the only studios who may get me to bite.

I'm actually really looking forward to this game and all the wonderful content we're certain to see out there when it's finally here.
Click to expand...
Gotta get ROI on that multi-billion $ investment. Limiting duration of PS5 exclusivity makes sense and they've delayed the game multiple times.
But I still don't buy the early 2027 rumours. We'll see.
 
MrMPFR said:
Gotta get ROI on that multi-billion $ investment. Limiting duration of PS5 exclusivity makes sense and they've delayed the game multiple times.
But I still don't buy the early 2027 rumours. We'll see.
Click to expand...

There's no sure thing in life, but GTA VI being a great success is as close as it gets.

Pure speculation on my part, but I suspect internal expectations are along the lines of the game reaching 20 - 25 million units sold in a time frame similar to recent titles that reached that milestone, e.g., Elden Ring, Hogwarts Legacy, Baldur's Gate III, Black Myth Wukong. Of course, all of the aforementioned titles accomplished the feat with a multi-platform launch, and I infer from this "leak" that Rockstar, while of course outwardly very confident on their planned console exclusive launch, hedging just in case the path to their internal expectations hit any speed bumps (you never know how gamers will react) necessitating a concurrent PC launch asap.

While, in my view, there's zero doubt this game will be profitable, it's more important if they meet investors' expectations, which is, I believe, reach 25 million units sold in relatively quick time frame, similar to prior titles. Perhaps, internally, they're having some questions on whether or not a console exclusive launch will accomplish that metric in an acceptable time frame.
 
"we'll have more details about how developers can take advantage of the specific hardware features of Project Helix in the months ahead"

"We're working hard so developers can make one Xbox build in the future and it'll run on their Project Helix console, on PC and on streaming and cloud surfaces like smart TVs and other devices."

~Chris Charla, the general manager of portfolio and programs at Xbox, has been with Xbox for 16 years, and worked on ID@Xbox for 13. He began in 2010 as the XBLA portfolio director, and has changed titles several times to things like director of ID@Xbox and senior director of content curation and programs. (But all of these fancy titles have roughly described the same job he says he's been doing the whole time: "making sure cool indie games get onto Xbox and into players' hands.")

https://twitter.com/x/status/2036511137076838605
 
marees said:
"we'll have more details about how developers can take advantage of the specific hardware features of Project Helix in the months ahead"

"We're working hard so developers can make one Xbox build in the future and it'll run on their Project Helix console, on PC and on streaming and cloud surfaces like smart TVs and other devices."

~Chris Charla, the general manager of portfolio and programs at Xbox, has been with Xbox for 16 years, and worked on ID@Xbox for 13. He began in 2010 as the XBLA portfolio director, and has changed titles several times to things like director of ID@Xbox and senior director of content curation and programs. (But all of these fancy titles have roughly described the same job he says he's been doing the whole time: "making sure cool indie games get onto Xbox and into players' hands.")

https://twitter.com/x/status/2036511137076838605
Click to expand...


Why would indie developers want to work for Helix early on? It's going to be an expensive piece of hardware with a reduced userbase at launch.
 
ToTTenTranz said:
Why would indie developers want to work for Helix early on? It's going to be an expensive piece of hardware with a reduced userbase at launch.
Click to expand...
the build process is same for both xbox on pc & xbox console

so as long as they build it as play anywhere the code base is the same

however there are a few console specific directx tricks & optimizations that can be done on top of this
 
marees said:
the build process is same for both xbox on pc & xbox console

so as long as they build it as play anywhere the code base is the same

however there are a few console specific directx tricks & optimizations that can be done on top of this
Click to expand...


Yes, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of indie devs wanting to put the work on xbox-on-pc. Non-demanding indie games are more likely to target SteamOS than xbox-on-pc IMO.
 
marees said:
nib it in the bud
Click to expand...

The wording was careful, here. Notice how he didn't deny the 3rd party consoles. He just said there will be a 1st party version.



marees said:
fwiw, imo it doesn't make financial sense for Asus, Lenovo et al to offer a higher priced magnus apu
Click to expand...

It's only higher priced if you assume Microsoft is subsidizing Helix. If they're not, then everyone is paying the same for the SoC and OEMs can compete with each other on price and other features (RGB stuff, form factor, noise, etc.).

It could even be that Microsoft decides to subsidize only the internal hardware (e.g. SoC or reference board) instead of the whole console, selling it to OEMs. That way they'd guarantee volume orders from AMD, resell it to OEMs for a lower price and have cross-marketing deals that would save them a bit of money on marketing.




I've been suggesting this for a while, FWIW:
ToTTenTranz said:
Next-gen xbox is probably a target spec or fully populated PCB for a Windows machine to be assembled by OEMs, not a traditional console sold and distributed by Microsoft. If Microsoft sells this as an Xbox, I don't think it'll be subsidized anyway. It'll be like a compact gaming PC / surface.
Click to expand...

ToTTenTranz said:
Magnus will be on a Windows PC initially sold by Microsoft that can sideload Steam and probably any win32 apps. As the gen goes on, Microsoft will probably open the target spec and SoC exclusivity to OEMs so they can make their own xboxes.
Click to expand...
 
Stating the obvious here, but, of corse, if Microsoft is motivated to, they could subsidize the new console until the cows come home.

However, what I'm unsure of, aside from the the public corp speak & niceties, is whether or not they care about the gaming division, which pales in comparison to their enterprise software business. In my view, if they do subsidize the console, then it tells me they do want to turn around Xbox studios; conversely, if they don't and keep with the 30% gross margins (unrealistic, in my estimation), then I think the plan is just to wind it down gradually.

As a consumer, of course, I'd love nothing more than to see the new Helix with a massive substation price--goes without saying.
 
jpiniero said:
Even Sony isn't going to subsidize the PS6 much.
Click to expand...
30% of msrp of a retail product is just the profit margin & distribution costs markup

assume helix = 5080 or 5070 ti super. then Microsoft just has to sell it 40% below the msrp of an equivalent box with the 5080 & 32gb vram
 
From Microsoft's perspective, I think there's an opportunity for them here to have their cake and eat it too.

Here's what I mean. Firstly, let me say that I'm very bullish on the gaming industry's total addressable market growing, for what is, in my view, obvious reasons. We have a studio creating a game that costs a reported $2 - $3 billion to make, and just about everyone, including myself, would bet that not only would they recoup the costs within weeks, but the only question is how long the income stream would last, say, 5 or 10 years? Compare this to Hollywood movies where if any studio tells investors they've spent a billion to make a movie, we'd all be calling for an internal audit on whether or not they're grossly misallocating funds.

Secondly, I believe the gaming industry is one where a rising tide raises all boats. Frankly, I'm puzzled on these reports about the gaming industry dying or crashing. Crimson Desert switched from an MMO to a single player game and sold 5 million units in 30 days @ $70 a pop. Windrose, a game that's not even finished, has sold 1 million units at $27 within days. Clearly, there is a huge appetite for games--you just have to make one that people like to play. Business 101, whatever widgets you make, it has to be one people will buy at your price point--this will never change.

Finally, Microsoft, in my view, has the option to invest and try to turn around their gaming business, especially if their new consoles gain traction. While they may not care about gaming per se, they probably would care if, say, the Steam Machine takes the world by storm and most gamers can finally abandon, at least in part, consuming Windows. Personally, if it weren't for games, I'd never use Windows in any form, since these days I can accomplish all my computing tasks on a Mac. If they're successful, they can spinoff the gaming business to maximize shareholder value--historically, valuation increases when you spinoff divisions. Afterwards, whether it's Asha or someone else, they can then focus exclusively on the gaming business.

This is, in my view, a win win for everyone involved. It's great for gamers. It's great for shareholders. And, it's great for MSFT's stock price.

PS - The above is not nor intended to be stock or financial advice. Any remarks on the potential valuation or stock price of Microsoft are pure speculation and my personal opinion meant for entertainment purposes only.
 
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MoragaBlue said:
if it weren't for games, I'd never use Windows in any form,
Click to expand...
this is the crux of the issue for Microsoft

it seems they've woken up now

apparently they are backpedalling on the 30% margin, which is why you are seeing all these new initiatives

there is still a bit of tension in that as long as they rely on gamepass it means they have to optimize for PCs (95% nvidia), whereas their own consoles are AMD

seems that removing CoD from game pass is the first step. eventually the first party studios might focus on optimizing for AMD based helix rather than nvidia based PCs
 
marees said:
there is still a bit of tension in that as long as they rely on gamepass it means they have to optimize for PCs (95% nvidia), whereas their own consoles are AMD
Click to expand...

I've inferred from the Spencer retirement and their unceremoniously dismissing Bond as a tacit admission that the Gamepass bet has been a failure. Whatever business you're in, the adage "valuation is destiny" will eventually rule the day--if you can't make money, you can't make money. Scrap it, and move on.

Of course, easier said than done, and if Asha's up to the task, it'll be one of those turn arounds they'll talk about and study in business school for many years. As to the console, if other gamers are like me, if I own it, the odds are I will purchase some games on their storefront, not unlike how I have purchased Apple Music & movies on their iTunes & Apple TV stores, games on Playstation, and, of course, Steam.
 
Published 12:30 22 Apr 2026 GMT+1

Xbox Project Helix Teased Right Under Our Noses In Potential First Look​

Hideo Kojima has posted a rather interesting image online which could hint at something greater.
Olly Smith
It appears that Xbox may have just teased Project Helix right under our noses.

Posting on X (formerly Twitter), Kojima recently met with Microsoft Gaming CEO Asha Sharma and Chief Content Officer Matt Booty at Microsoft’s headquarters in Redmond, Washington.

Posing for a photo with Sharma and Booty, Kojima is seen holding a mysterious black box labelled “Xbox for Kojima”.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2046766402196173037

HGeUpy-WYAAwJdq.jpeg

www.gamingbible.com

Xbox Project Helix Teased Right Under Our Noses In Potential First Look

It was there the whole time!
www.gamingbible.com www.gamingbible.com
 
Microsoft just dropped a "manifesto" to xbox employees worldwide:

news.xbox.com

We Are Xbox - Xbox Wire

news.xbox.com news.xbox.com

Some snippets I found relevant for this thread:

_________________________

Players are frustrated.
New feature drops on console have been less frequent. Our presence on PC isn’t strong enough. Pricing is getting harder for people to keep up with. And core experiences like search, discovery, social, and personalization still feel too fragmented. Developers and publishers are asking for more, too: better tools, better insights, and a platform that helps them grow faster.

_________________________

- Xbox will be built to be affordable, personal, and open. We will offer flexible pricing so it’s easy to get started and keep playing.
_________________________


Hardware
  • Stabilize Gen9 as a healthy and high-quality base
  • Deliver Project Helix to lead in performance and play your console and PC games
  • Lead in comfortable, personal, high-performance accessories
  • Build a strong ecosystem that expands choice and reach
_________________________

Services
  • Fortify Game Pass with clear differentiation and sustainable economics
  • Return the business to durable growth with strong cost discipline
  • Make cloud play feel native, fast, and reliable across TVs and low-cost devices
  • Use M&A deliberately to accelerate growth where organic paths are too slow
Click to expand...


I wonder what affordable means for something as large and expensive to make as Magnus + AT2, with lots of GDDR7. It could be the affordable part is where the cloud play comes in. Can't pay for the latest xbox? Just subscribe to the service and proceed to never even own one.
 
Initially, I was lukewarm on Asha's appointment, but I may have been wrong. Thus far, it appears to me she's doing all the right things and using language, like disruption, that really resonates with me. Now, it comes down to execution, and I'm rooting for her, not for her per se, but, in my view, the gaming landscape is better with a strong and thriving Xbox, just as it is with Sony & Nintendo. I'm always in favor of vigorous competition benefitting consumers.

From what I've pieced together on Magnus' specs--32 gigs of RAM, 5070 - 5080 like performance, and at least 16 MB of VRAM? The new Steam Machine is rumored to be asking $900? I'm assuming the PS6 can't be at a lower price point than the PS Pro, so at least $900? To build a customized PC with similar specs to Magnus would cost about $2,500?

Ah, if Magnus is being introduced at the rumored $1,000 - $1,200 with the rumored specs, I'd pre-order it on day one. No brainer, for my needs.
 
ToTTenTranz said:
Microsoft just dropped a "manifesto" to xbox employees worldwide:

news.xbox.com

We Are Xbox - Xbox Wire

news.xbox.com news.xbox.com

Some snippets I found relevant for this thread:




I wonder what affordable means for something as large and expensive to make as Magnus + AT2, with lots of GDDR7. It could be the affordable part is where the cloud play comes in. Can't pay for the latest xbox? Just subscribe to the service and proceed to never even own one.
Click to expand...

Xbox will be where the world plays​

What does Xbox become in this next era?

Xbox will be where the world plays and creates. We will build a global platform that connects players and creators everywhere. Console is at the foundation, delivering a premium experience, and cloud brings that experience to any device. You can play where you want, and your games, progress, friends, and identity stay with you across console, PC, mobile, and cloud.

Xbox will be built to be affordable, personal, and open. We will offer flexible pricing so it’s easy to get started and keep playing. The experience will adapt to you, letting you customize how you play, helping you find what you’ll love, and connecting you with the right people. And we will be open to all creators, from individuals to the largest studios, giving anyone the tools to reach a global audience and keep their games growing over time.

Our new north star will be daily active players.

news.xbox.com

We Are Xbox - Xbox Wire

news.xbox.com news.xbox.com
 
ToTTenTranz said:
I wonder what affordable means
Click to expand...
  1. custom build your own gamepass packages
  2. bundled starter packages with other subscriptions such as discord/netflix
  3. free/bundled cloud game play — with maybe minimal set of games
  4. add your own games on top of free/basic tier
  5. cloud play using smart tv / mobile / firestick etc
  6. PCs/handhelds (via OEM tie-ups) on AT4 soc (medusa premium)
 
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