XBox 360 Information Thread - now 3 videos up! (MTV, 2 MS)

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: royaldank

Originally posted by: purbeast0
well tell me this, and no i do not know the answer to this.

were there any first party games developed on both psx and ps2 after the ps2 release? again, i don't know the answer to this, but my guess would be no.

Do you mean like EA putting out Madden for PS2 and PS1? That happened and has each year since the PS2 came out. You can buy Madden 2005 for your Playstation 1.

notice i said first party ...

 

[royaldank]

My bad.

Look at Sony's 989 games. Those are first party.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: royaldank

Originally posted by: purbeast0
well tell me this, and no i do not know the answer to this.

were there any first party games developed on both psx and ps2 after the ps2 release? again, i don't know the answer to this, but my guess would be no.

Do you mean like EA putting out Madden for PS2 and PS1? That happened and has each year since the PS2 came out. You can buy Madden 2005 for your Playstation 1.

notice i said first party ...

Why would only first party games count? Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo want other parties to develop games for their systems. Since the discussion was about playing games online on Xbox live, I don't see why you'd only specify first party games.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: royaldank

Originally posted by: purbeast0
well tell me this, and no i do not know the answer to this.

were there any first party games developed on both psx and ps2 after the ps2 release? again, i don't know the answer to this, but my guess would be no.

Do you mean like EA putting out Madden for PS2 and PS1? That happened and has each year since the PS2 came out. You can buy Madden 2005 for your Playstation 1.

notice i said first party ...

Why would only first party games count? Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo want other parties to develop games for their systems. Since the discussion was about playing games online on Xbox live, I don't see why you'd only specify first party games.

you mentioned halo 3, not me ... which is why i said first party since its first party games that are the exclusives to the system and the huge sellers.

people aren't going to run out and get an xbox2 or ps3 to play madden 2006 on it. they are going to get them for exclusive first party games (or exclusive third party games, which again, wouldn't be on xbox1 or ps2).

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

you mentioned halo 3, not me ... which is why i said first party since its first party games that are the exclusives to the system and the huge sellers.

people aren't going to run out and get an xbox2 or ps3 to play madden 2006 on it. they are going to get them for exclusive first party games (or exclusive third party games, which again, wouldn't be on xbox1 or ps2).

I just used that as an example, but Madden 2006 would be another good example.

My basic point from the beginning is that any game that is developed for both Xbox and Xbox2 will be able to play across XBox live with other people on both systems. No matter who makes the game or what that game is, as long as it's a multiplayer game there's no reason why you couldn't make the networking portion compatible with both systems.

This would explain the info that RagingBitch quoted. Now whether that's what's going to happen or not remains to be seen, but it is a possibility.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: purbeast0

you mentioned halo 3, not me ... which is why i said first party since its first party games that are the exclusives to the system and the huge sellers.

people aren't going to run out and get an xbox2 or ps3 to play madden 2006 on it. they are going to get them for exclusive first party games (or exclusive third party games, which again, wouldn't be on xbox1 or ps2).

I just used that as an example, but Madden 2006 would be another good example.

My basic point from the beginning is that any game that is developed for both Xbox and Xbox2 will be able to play across XBox live with other people on both Xbox and Xbox2. No matter who makes the game or what that game is, as long as it's a multiplayer game there's no reason why you couldn't make the networking portion compatible with both Xbox1 and Xbox2.

i know and i still don't think that will ever happen. same way you can't play someone in madden 2005 on ps2 if you are playing on xbox, same with any other online game. same way i cant play halo 1 on xbox against someone on halo 1 on PC. i think the hint given from the statement about xbox live was hinting the system is backwards compatible.

but hey, i could be proven wrong in 2 days

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Originally posted by: ivol07

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: 777php

Originally posted by: flashbacck

Originally posted by: Muadib
What happened to Blue-ray or HDDVD support? I might have gotten it if it was included, but it looks like I'll be waiting for PS3. I bet I'm not alone.

That's absurd. Who gives a $hit if there's no Blu-ray or HDDVD?

Why wouldn't you? Who knows how much Blu-Ray/HD DVD players are going to cost? If you can buy a PS3 which already has a player built in, I think alot of people will see that as a HUGE benefit.

Exactly!!! The PS2 was the first DVD player for many people. It's a big part of why the PS2 sales were far superior to xbox sales. Not including support for either Blu-Ray or HD DVD is just stupid, especially since Sony has already announced that the PS3 will support Blu-Ray.

Your logic makes no sense - the XBox PLAYS DVDS TOO. They were first out of the gate and had a sizeable advantage on a total noob to the industry, who made many mistakes and is looking to correct them the second time around.

Yeah, but you have to pay an extra $30 for the stupid remote control if you want to watch DVDs on your Xbox.

I think this next xbox is gonna kick ass. Wireless controllers so my wife won't be complaining about wires. Xbox live is great already, I can't imagine how they'd make it better. Better graphics is always good. But I do think I'll wait until the kinks get worked out in the initial batch. Those first versions are almost always buggy.

True. Sony charged $30 for a remote as well, although you could use the controller. Playing DVD's was never a factor in sales with the PS2/XBox.

Bulls@#$ It took the Xbox months after it was released before it could play dvd's. The PS2 could do it out of the box. DVD players cost hundreds of dollars back then. You clearly didn't belong to any stereo related forums if you believe that.

Um, no. The DVD playback kit was available at launch. My cousin sure as hell had it that Christmas, less than a month after launch. I had mine the very beginning of January 2002, so thats < 2 months. You're completely clueless.

That wasn't the case here. It was well into February before they were truely available. There were plenty of Xbox consoles though, so I'll give Microsoft that. It was months after launch before the PS2 was
truly available too.

 

[loup garou]

hmm...why wouldn't anyone go for the "deluxe" package if the prices are true? HD, remote, extra controller for $60 more? Not bad...

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Muadib
What happened to Blue-ray or HDDVD support? I might have gotten it if it was included, but it looks like I'll be waiting for PS3. I bet I'm not alone.

What happened is, who cares? As I've thought for a while B-Ray and HDDVD are technologies that nobody needs/wants right now. Practically speaking they offer nothing over DVD. What are we going to do with a 20 gig disk or 30 gigs or whatever? Waste of time right now. DVD is much cheaper. You can't even rent a BR movie or anything.

I wouldn't be surprised if PS3 dropped it as well. It's really right now a useless technology, and will be for years to come. People are on the DVD bandwagon now. See how long cassettes and vhs and all that went. Blu-ray hasn't even begun, so if you see how long it took DVD to kick in properly you'll see that xbox is missing nothing by not incorporating blue laser into their next box.

This thing looks good but I've seen enough launch systems now to know that they invariably have a pathetic number of launch games...so it's best to wait _at least_ six months before buying one. Plus you can then save on some of the inevitable initial quality problems.

FWIW I question whether it's going to have that triple core setup. Sounds exhorbitantly expensive for anything coming out this year.

A recent article scoffed that the difference between PS2 and PS3 makes xbox360 look like its not even a real upgrade.

Heard it before. It touts nonsense like life-like gaming and all that sh*t. It's horse crap. It will be evolutionary, just as this thing is.

Might have been a small factor, but it was one never the less. I know at least 2 people who bought a PS2 because they felt they were killing two birds with one stone by getting a console and DVD Player combined.

I was one of them. It was a major factor for me.

The same thing will probably happen with the PS3 and Blue-Ray DVD players. You'll have the choice between just getting a ~$100-200 blue-ray player or spending another $100-200 and getting a PS3 as well. A lot of people could justify it that way.

They could, but they'd be wrong to. The reason is that when the PS2 came out you're right, a lot of people didn't have dvd players, but dvds were clearly here to stay and had been growing nicely. I remember the first store near me renting them fully two years prior to the PS2 coming out. Unlike laserdisc it was plainly evident that DVD was the next format. I'll be VERY surprised if we see any blue-ray or HD-dvd rentals up through the end of 2006, except in maybe a demo capacity; two-three discs at blockbuster just to pretend they have it. Nobody outside of tech circles cares about--or indeed has even heard of blue-ray/hddvd.

I bet that you have yet to upgrade to an HDTV set. Those of us that have crave more HD content. DVD just doesn't cut it when you compare it to HD. The reason you haven't seen any Blu-ray disc yet is because the format isn't here yet. It's comming though, and if I can get it with my gaming console, and not have to buy a separate player, then that's great. Sony has already said that Blu-ray will be included in the PS3. Blu-ray is their baby, and for once, they've finally won a format war.

As for Blu-ray not offering much over DVD, did you feel the same when you went from watching movies on your vcr to your dvd player? The dvd has double the resolution of a standard vcr 500 vs 250 lines. Blu-ray has a maximum resolution of 1920x1080 vs. 720x480 for DVD. That's more than double the resolution!!!

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Muadib
I bet that you have yet to upgrade to an HDTV set. Those of us that have crave more HD content. DVD just doesn't cut it when you compare it to HD. The reason you haven't seen any Blu-ray disc yet is because the format isn't here yet. It's comming though, and if I can get it with my gaming console, and not have to buy a separate player, then that's great. Sony has already said that Blu-ray will be included in the PS3. Blu-ray is their baby, and for once, they've finally won a format war.

Sony has not won the format war yet. They are still competing/negotiating with those that are backing HD-DVD. This is part of the reason that MS has not jumped on putting either in the Xbox360.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: Muadib
I bet that you have yet to upgrade to an HDTV set. Those of us that have crave more HD content. DVD just doesn't cut it when you compare it to HD. The reason you haven't seen any Blu-ray disc yet is because the format isn't here yet. It's comming though, and if I can get it with my gaming console, and not have to buy a separate player, then that's great. Sony has already said that Blu-ray will be included in the PS3. Blu-ray is their baby, and for once, they've finally won a format war.

As for Blu-ray not offering much over DVD, did you feel the same when you went from watching movies on your vcr to your dvd player? The dvd has double the resolution of a standard vcr 500 vs 250 lines. Blu-ray has a maximum resolution of 1920x1080 vs. 720x480 for DVD. That's more than double the resolution!!!

That having all been said - Blu-Ray will take years before it's even firmly entrenched enough that people buy BR specific players. At the end of this year and the start of next year when XBox 360 + PS3 comes out, it's not going to be an appreciable difference, not for another few years. Regardless, I doubt the hardcore videophile so engrossed with HDTV, flat screen plasma's, bad ass 7.1 surround sound systems who obviously has everything and the money to buy it with, is going to be turned off to buying a XBox 360 just because it doesn't have BR support. Don't have a BR supported player? I'm sure they'll buy one seperately.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Muadib
I bet that you have yet to upgrade to an HDTV set. Those of us that have crave more HD content. DVD just doesn't cut it when you compare it to HD. The reason you haven't seen any Blu-ray disc yet is because the format isn't here yet. It's comming though, and if I can get it with my gaming console, and not have to buy a separate player, then that's great. Sony has already said that Blu-ray will be included in the PS3. Blu-ray is their baby, and for once, they've finally won a format war.

Sony has not won the format war yet. They are still competing/negotiating with those that are backing HD-DVD. This is part of the reason that MS has not jumped on putting either in the Xbox360.

Uhhhh, Wrong!!!!

If it were from any other site, you might be forgiven. However that was posted on Monday. Sony won, its no longer a format war. HD-DVD has been dropped entirely.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Muadib
I bet that you have yet to upgrade to an HDTV set. Those of us that have crave more HD content. DVD just doesn't cut it when you compare it to HD. The reason you haven't seen any Blu-ray disc yet is because the format isn't here yet. It's comming though, and if I can get it with my gaming console, and not have to buy a separate player, then that's great. Sony has already said that Blu-ray will be included in the PS3. Blu-ray is their baby, and for once, they've finally won a format war.

Sony has not won the format war yet. They are still competing/negotiating with those that are backing HD-DVD. This is part of the reason that MS has not jumped on putting either in the Xbox360.

Uhhhh, Wrong!!!!

If it were from any other site, you might be forgiven. However that was posted on Monday. Sony won, its no longer a format war. HD-DVD has been dropped entirely.

My how things change in a couple of days.

TOKYO?A press report was released on May 10 regarding the potential unification of next generation HD formats. The following is Toshiba's comment on the report.

Toshiba believes a single format for next generation DVD is most beneficial for consumers, and we are actively participating in talks towards format unification. At this point however, nothing has been decided, and absolutely no decision has been made for unification on any basis. The indication that a unification agreement on the basis of a 0.1mm disc system is imminent is unfounded and erroneous. Given this, Toshiba does not intend to make any proposal on unification to the members of the HD DVD Promotion Group.

We recognize that the key factors for a unified format are large capacity, reasonable cost, and backward compatibility with DVD that maximizes consumer benefit.

Toshiba will present a new higher capacity HD DVD-ROM disc at Media-Tech Expo 2005 in Las Vegas, USA, the optical disc manufacturing industry's leading annual trade show.

Toshiba will continue to be engaged in the dialogue on format unification.

In fact, the HD-DVD group announced that they've developed a way to add a third layer to their discs. Link

TOKYO & LAS VEGAS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 10, 2005--Toshiba Corporation today announced development of a triple-layer HD DVD-ROM (read-only) disc with a data capacity of 45 gigabytes, 50% more than the 30-gigabyte dual-layer HD DVD-ROM disc already announced and enough to record twelve hours of high-definition movies on a single disc. The new disc adds a high-end option to the previous HD DVD-ROM disc lineup that includes the 15GB (single-layer, single-sided) and 30GB (dual-layer, single-sided). These two discs are already approved and standardized at the DVD Forum.

Toshiba also announced a double-sided, dual-layer hybrid ROM disc comprised of dual-layer HD DVD-ROM side and dual-layer DVD-ROM side. The hybrid disc can store 30GB of high-definition content on the HD DVD-ROM side and 8.5GB of standard-definition content on the DVD-ROM dual layer side. More than 84 million DVD players and recorders were produced worldwide in 2004 alone. The standard definition content of the new hybrid discs can be replayed on these platforms, while their owners will also be able to enjoy high-definition content from the same source when they purchase HD DVD players in the future. The new disc further prepares the way for a smooth transition from DVD to HD DVD.

Details of these new discs will be presented at the May 11 HD DVD workshop at Media-Tech Expo 2005 in Las Vegas, U.S., the leading annual trade show for the optical disc manufacturing industry.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: purbeast0


91TTZ do you have a problem reading or something? read that bolded statement. chances are that xbox 2 games aren't going to work on xbox 1, so the only other choice to be playing the same game on an xbox 1 and an xbox 2 is that its an xbox 1 game, which seems a little more feasable than the other way around ...

And if you are saying one can play madden 06 on xbox 1 against madden 06 on xbox 2, then no, that won't happen since they really aren't the same game.

No, I have no trouble reading. Your last sentence describes what I'm saying.

That bolded text doesn't necessarily tell you anything about backwards compatibility. It could mean what you tried to discount in your last sentence. If the same game is made for both Xbox1 and Xbox2, it is entirely possible for the game data output over the network to be compatible for both versions. Just as MS Word for Windows can read files made by MS Word on Mac, it's possible to make different versions of the same game use the same output. All you have to do is code it that way.

If you look at what information is transferred over the wire, you'd see that there's no reason why you couldn't make both versions read and write information in that same format, especially when your goal is to support two platforms over your Xbox Live network.

actually,
all the games are made to be network transparent, so even though its ported to different architecture (x86 -> risc ppc), it still runs over the same protocol (TCP) so you can play against each other.

Right now there are 3 different platforms for unreal - mac, linux and windows. Each one of them have completly different binary format, but they all play with each other. What the o/p is suggesting makes no sense...

 

[0roo0roo]

can always replace the dvd drive with a bluray+dvd drive if those ever come out and are cheap enough...

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

That having all been said - Blu-Ray will take years before it's even firmly entrenched enough that people buy BR specific players. At the end of this year and the start of next year when XBox 360 + PS3 comes out, it's not going to be an appreciable difference, not for another few years. Regardless, I doubt the hardcore videophile so engrossed with HDTV, flat screen plasma's, bad ass 7.1 surround sound systems who obviously has everything and the money to buy it with, is going to be turned off to buying a XBox 360 just because it doesn't have BR support. Don't have a BR supported player? I'm sure they'll buy one seperately.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but . . . I own an XBox, and have never owned a PS1 or PS2. That said, I have to imagine the first gen of Blu-Ray players will be relatively expensive, and, assuming it wins as the dominant format for hi-def DVD, it would certainly predispose me to getting a PS3 over an XBox 360. I can certainly understand why MS left this feature out of its machine, in favor of getting it to market this year, but to me it's a huge feature to have if you're Sony.

I have no idea how these systems' specs will stack up, but Sony has always had the edge in terms of software, and MS the hardware edge, in the present generation of consoles. If Sony produces a better machine in the PS3, I'm not sure where it'll leave MS.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

That having all been said - Blu-Ray will take years before it's even firmly entrenched enough that people buy BR specific players. At the end of this year and the start of next year when XBox 360 + PS3 comes out, it's not going to be an appreciable difference, not for another few years. Regardless, I doubt the hardcore videophile so engrossed with HDTV, flat screen plasma's, bad ass 7.1 surround sound systems who obviously has everything and the money to buy it with, is going to be turned off to buying a XBox 360 just because it doesn't have BR support. Don't have a BR supported player? I'm sure they'll buy one seperately.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but . . . I own an XBox, and have never owned a PS1 or PS2. That said, I have to imagine the first gen of Blu-Ray players will be relatively expensive, and, assuming it wins as the dominant format for hi-def DVD, it would certainly predispose me to getting a PS3 over an XBox 360. I can certainly understand why MS left this feature out of its machine, in favor of getting it to market this year, but to me it's a huge feature to have if you're Sony.

I have no idea how these systems' specs will stack up, but Sony has always had the edge in terms of software, and MS the hardware edge, in the present generation of consoles. If Sony produces a better machine in the PS3, I'm not sure where it'll leave MS.

Better graphics + features doesn't always translate into market leader. Look at N64 vs PS. XBox vs PS2. MS had a lot of mistakes with the XBox, it's coming out swinging the second time around. I'm thinking/leaning towards them being either the same, or with the PS3 having the edge.

In terms of getting a PS3 over a XBox 360 - well, that's the perogative of the consumer. As long as MS pushes and markets their advantages, they'll win over the casual consumer who is unaware of the differences, or quite frankly doesn't care. Like I said before, it will be years before BR really makes an appreciable difference in the average consumer market. By the time it does, set top players will be about as cheap as DVD players are now, and the difference will be nill.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Better graphics + features doesn't always translate into market leader. Look at N64 vs PS. XBox vs PS2. MS had a lot of mistakes with the XBox, it's coming out swinging the second time around. I'm thinking/leaning towards them being either the same, or with the PS3 having the edge.

I really don't think we can even say at this point which of the three consoles will have the edge since none of them truly have released specs or game line-ups. Of the three, all we have is leaked specs of the Xbox360 which may or may not be true and, if true, may or not be the actual production specs.

I know there is a lot of hype about the cell processor but that is all there is at this point...hype. There was a lot of hype over the Emotion Engine as well over Toy Story like graphics....we remember how that turned out.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Better graphics + features doesn't always translate into market leader. Look at N64 vs PS. XBox vs PS2. MS had a lot of mistakes with the XBox, it's coming out swinging the second time around. I'm thinking/leaning towards them being either the same, or with the PS3 having the edge.

In terms of getting a PS3 over a XBox 360 - well, that's the perogative of the consumer. As long as MS pushes and markets their advantages, they'll win over the casual consumer who is unaware of the differences, or quite frankly doesn't care. Like I said before, it will be years before BR really makes an appreciable difference in the average consumer market. By the time it does, set top players will be about as cheap as DVD players are now, and the difference will be nill.

That's the part I'm not convinced of. Sony appears to already have the ability to produce B-R discs, and Toshiba says it can already produce HD-DVDs. Since there are a good many HDTV owners out there hungering for more HD content, it seems to me that once they settle on a format, we'll be off and running fairly quickly. I guess we'll see . . .

 

[Queasy]

HD-DVD now becomes a "non-exclusive" component of the Xbox360.
Link

Sony is already planning to integrate Blu-ray into the Playstation 3, while Microsoft is expected to announce this week that HD DVD will be a non-exclusive component of the upcoming Xbox 360. Both next-gen gaming consoles will be used for DVD playback and home media networking.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Queasy
HD-DVD now becomes a "non-exclusive" component of the Xbox360.
Link

Sony is already planning to integrate Blu-ray into the Playstation 3, while Microsoft is expected to announce this week that HD DVD will be a non-exclusive component of the upcoming Xbox 360. Both next-gen gaming consoles will be used for DVD playback and home media networking.

Huh. What does "non-exclusive" mean in this context - that MS is amenable to using Blu-ray instead, or that they are acknowledging other consoles will have this feature?

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: DonVito
Huh. What does "non-exclusive" mean in this context - that MS is amenable to using Blu-ray instead, or that they are acknowledging other consoles will have this feature?

Just my half-assed guess, but I'm guessing that means they aren't beholden to one another and, if another format comes out of negotiations between Blu-ray and HD-DVD, MS could switch to that.

 

[777php]

I may have no clue as to what I'm talking about here but, as for future modding of the 360, anyone think we can run Tiger on this thing? PowerPC architecture?

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Queasy
HD-DVD now becomes a "non-exclusive" component of the Xbox360.
Link

Sony is already planning to integrate Blu-ray into the Playstation 3, while Microsoft is expected to announce this week that HD DVD will be a non-exclusive component of the upcoming Xbox 360. Both next-gen gaming consoles will be used for DVD playback and home media networking.

That is corporate speak for meaning they're reversing their stance. Companies can't admit that they're reversing their stance outright, so they must do it in stages, through timely-issued press releases.

Example:

Step 1. We are exclusively using HD-DVD in the XBox 2
Step 2. We announce that HD-DVD will no longer be an exclusive component.
Step 3. We announce that Blu-Ray will be an option, along with HD-DVD
Step 4. We are exclusively using Blu-ray in the Xbox2.

Undoubtedly this is due to the news earlier this week that Blu-Ray won out over HD-DVD.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Queasy
HD-DVD now becomes a "non-exclusive" component of the Xbox360.
Link

Sony is already planning to integrate Blu-ray into the Playstation 3, while Microsoft is expected to announce this week that HD DVD will be a non-exclusive component of the upcoming Xbox 360. Both next-gen gaming consoles will be used for DVD playback and home media networking.

That is corporate speak for meaning they're reversing their stance. Companies can't admit that they're reversing their stance outright, so they must do it in stages, through timely-issued press releases.

Example:

Step 1. We are exclusively using HD-DVD in the XBox 2
Step 2. We announce that HD-DVD will no longer be an exclusive component.
Step 3. We announce that Blu-Ray will be an option, along with HD-DVD
Step 4. We are exclusively using Blu-ray in the Xbox2.

Well, since neither are industry standard that is probably the best stance to take right now.