Xbox 360 CPU vs PS3 CPU...3 cores vs 8 cores

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: IntelUser2000
PS3 Cell=200GFlops
Xbox 360 CPU=100GFlops

PS3 total system=2TFlops
Xbox 360 total system=1TFlops

read this buddy http://theinquirer.net/?article=23425

 

[Munky]

You think MS will release the 360 half a year before Sony does the PS3, and the 360 will have more powerful hardware? Lay off the crack, seriously. The 256gb/s bandwidth is only from the 10mb buffer on the video card. The whole system bandwidth on the xbox360 is like 24gb/s, so actually is has half the bandwidth of the PS3.

Also, unless Sony, IBM, and Toshiba are braindead, the 8-core Cell will slaughter the 3-core xbox cpu, it's not even a contest. I know this because games are not "general computing", they are just the opposite, where you run a limited set of instructions on a large amount of data (SIMD). The only tricky part is getting all 8 cores to work in parallel for mamximum efficiency.

With the 360 being released first, it does give MS an advantage in terms of the games available, but we already know the PS3 will be backwards compatible, and we don't know if the 360 will be. If it's not, then it's already PS3-1 : Xbox-0. Now, consider the fact that the exclusive games is what matters a lot. If the 360 has the best library of games, and those games are also available for the PC or other consoles, then nobody is going to buy the 360 or it's games. Sony had a good running of exclusive games for the PS2, like the GTA series, MGS2, GT3, and numerous others. What did xbox have? It got GTA way later than Sony, and nothing on the xbox could even come close to GT3. So, unless the xbox360 get a number of good EXCLUSIVE games, it would't win in the software department either, even if it comes out first

 

[michal1980]

Wow theres alot of hot air in this room.

alot of people hating on sony? why? because there specs change? its the real world things change.

if you read all the reviews you would have heard that developers are saying the ps3 is not hard to program 4.

you would have also hread that one of the extra cores will be disabled

I also wonder how many M$-Xbox fan boys here complain about how crappy M$ is when it comes to Windows XP, and I.E. but then yell about how great Xbox 2 will be.

Also food for thought

the dreamcast came out first and was the 'better' system, ps2 came out a few months later, hmm which one is still around?

I hope both have good games, i'll probably own both.,.

and why is it that the ps3 specs can change but M$ would never change specs.
I loved halo1, but unless your a fan boy halo2 was all hype, and might have been one of the bigest titles that was never full polished, and just wasn't good.

also stop spreading rumors of FF going to xbox, a designer/producer, of liek 2 games from eons ago signed up with M$ he does not have FF outside of a line on his resume.

 

[R3MF]

never have i seen such a bunch of blow-hards in one thread!

i have seen one decent attempt to gauge the power of the various CPU arrangements (see below), and the author even invited others to knock holes in his logic.............. no takers so far. says a lot for the multiude of you who seem in awe of marketting speak.

Originally posted by: Starglider
'SoothingRelease', your claims are not even remotely plausible. Here is a rough analysis of the theoretical capabilities of the two processors.

Both processors achieve the bulk of their floating point performance by vector operations on 128-bit registers. Normally this means processing 4 32-bit floats at once; double the vector GFLOPs numbers for the (rare) case of 16-bit floats, halve them for the (somewhat more common) case of double-precision floats. The Altivec instruction set includes 'fused multiply-add', which is probably implemented by the vector units of all the processing cores in question. This doubles the theoretical peak GFLOPs, for the unrealistic case that every instruction is a multiply-add. In theory each processor will do a minimum of one instruction per cycle if the decoders are kept fed, but in practice the PowerPC architecture has multi-cycle latencies that delay serial execution of instructions that depend on each other. These are 6 cycles for FPU operations and 8 cycles for vector FP operations on the G5, probably similar on the two console CPUs (maybe less for the PS3's SPUs as they have a simpler design). Finally the CPUs in both consoles run at a clock speed of 3.2 GHz.

The Xbox 360 has 'one VMX unit per core', which if it resembles the G5 means one fully functional vector execution unit and one multiply/add unit, plus two floating point units. The G5 has a theoretical issue width of eight, so the Xbox 360 is unlikely to be decode limited. The theoretical streaming compute power (for single-precision values) is 2 x 3.2 x 4 = 25.6 GFLOPS for the vector units and 2 x 3.2 = 6.4 GFLOPS for the floating point units in each core. That gives a theoretical upper bound of 96 GigaFLOPS for the Xbox (172.8 with only fused multiply-adds or 16-bit data), less than 10% of the 'well over 1 Tflop' that 'SoothingRelease' claimed. In practice interleaving vector and scalar FPU code is hard, and IPC will be dragged down by branches and serial dependencies. The XBox 360's single threaded IPC will probably be comparable to an XServe G5 running scientific applications; perhaps a little over 1. Assuming that the SMT is quite a bit more efficient than Hyperthreading in the P4, a sustained IPC of 2 might not be unreasonable, giving a total system performance of about 75 GFlops for six threads of vector-heavy code.

The Playstation 3's cores are issue limited; they have a maximum sustained IPC of 2. For pure vector operations this again gives 25.6 GFLOPS, this time for each whole core. This gives a theoretical maximum system performance of 204.8 Gigaflops (409.6 with fused multiply-adds or 16-bit data). However this cannot be achieved even in principle because other program logic including load-stores must compete for decode slots with vector operations. Combined with the lack of the ability to reorder instructions, I would guess a single-threaded IPC a little lower than the Xbox, I would guess about 0.8. On the plus side this will allow SMT in the PPU to work a little better, achieving a joint IPC of perhaps 1.5. This gives a total system performance of about 90 GFlops for nine threads of vector-heavy code.

The results of this rough analysis; the PS3 has a little over twice the /theoretical/ compute power of the XBox360, but probably only about 0-50% more on realistic game code. However the PS3 also has a much faster memory interface, a very efficient intercore interconnect and probably a faster GPU (the exact details aren't available yet). As such 'twice as powerful as the Xbox 360' is probably fair as a rough description.

SoothingRelease; the 1 TeraFLOP Microsoft claims for the XBox 360 is an 'overall system performance' that most definitely includes the GPU. This is made clear on the official spec page on www.xbox.com. I haven't seen the power of the CPU alone stated anywhere. 200 gigaflops for the Cell sounds entirely reasonable as either (a) a theoretical peak value for normal operations or (b) a real benchmark using 16 bit values or fused multiply-adds. Sony claims 2 TeraFLOPs for total system performance, which implies a GPU twice as powerful as Microsoft's, but the relationship between theoretical peak FLOPs and actual performance is even more murky for GPUs than it is for CPUs. Regardless, 'the PS3 is twice as powerful as the XBox 360' still sounds right as an overall characterisation.

If anyone can see errors in the above analysis or has more specific information, please do correct me.

 

[Hemipower04]

I registered just to say that all you xbox fan boys are going to be very disappointed come spring 2006. Answer one logical question, forget about specs as must of you don't even know what your talking about. Both cpu are made by IBM right? Why would IBM's head honchos be so hyped about the cell if the xbox cpu was better. Sure the xbox cpu might be easier to code for now, because of the lack of software and lack of inovation, but thats why sony isn't launching early. If Sony, IBM, and Toshiba all worked together to make one cpu, what makes you think IBM alone would make smething so much better. Sony has never let anyone down on performance, just look at the xbox and ps2. The ps2 was released almost 3 years earlier than the xbox, and I'll admit some games look better on the xbox, 3 years is supposed to be huge based on current advancements in technology! So what happed 20 lb xbox, why aren't you killing the ps2 in performance? Look at the psp jamed with tech as powerful as the ps2 in a handheld. Where is xbox's handheld?

 

[Hemipower04]

Sony is the leader in technology by far as the PS3 specs revealed and as always sony will overshadow imposters like the n64, dreamcast, and now the xbox 360 will be trumped. Although without all the imposters playstation wounldn't be were it's at now, tech wise. Xbox to the Playstation is like the ESPN sports franchise to the EA sports division. Something that comes out and takes advantage of all the people who want something new but not necessarily better. Games are difficult to compare because of people's different interests, but hardware is different. Next thing you Xbox fanboys would say is that current gen consoles are more powerful than computers for gaming. But to finish this post, which will probably not change any fanboys minds, the xbox is a better system than the ps2 (in internal hardware performance and online play only) design, inovation, and everything else goes the ps2. And the PS3 will be the superior system in all matters (3rd party games, 1st party games, exclusive titles, sleek design, inovation, PERFORMANCE etc.) except maybe the online gaming of xbox live. Let's see how you like when xbox starts charging you for everythin from updates to hosting tournys. But in the end i tip my hat to microsoft for at least trying to take on the goliath of technology which is SONY.

 

[karma112]

the xbox360 is supposed to be 14 times faster then original and the ps3 is supposed to be a whopping 44 times faster then the ps2

 

[Hemipower04]

All you people (Hdtv man you don't know anything, at all!) Final fantasy is not going to xbox. And microsoft prays to there bungie and halo gods that they will have 200 games in 6 months before PS3 launch. Square enix is Sony's bit*h and final fantasy is going nowhere. The producer or whatever he is, is going to make two new games for microsoft, not final fantasy. IGN is full of crap and if Microsoft did write that comparison, which i believe it was IGN, it's apperantly hype for all you fanboys. Halo 2 is Halo 1 with duel wielding and it took bungie 3 years to do it (retards) name another good game from bungie. Blu-ray will be adopted, not only for it's superiority over HD-dvd but because every one here owns a sony dvd player and sony will force it down our throats if you like or not. Who doesn't want 52 Gigs of storage, thats bigger than some of your harddrives. As far as the graphics, ATI and Nvidia are on par with each other, except for the SLI so as for next gen consoles performance shouldnt be that much different. And as far as the embedded dram, the ps3 will implement it if it deems it necessary as it's not technology that is panteted by microsoft and there is still enough time to do. Did anyone see the Fight night 3 demo or the Ducks in the bath tub, also the unreal game. Those where all real not fakes! What did microsoft have? stuff that looked like it could run on xbox 1. And all that about they are alpha kits that run at 30% the xbox 360 blah blah crap, i don't buy it. The sony demos like the ducks ran on the ps3 specs and sony is coming out spring 06'. Xbox is only a few months away and your telling me they don't have an operational machine, thats bull and the games you saw is probably what you will get from 360.

 

[karma112]

true some amzing games on sony but if gates's plan works on releasing halo3 on the same release day as ps3 its gonna hurt ps3's sales for a few days due to ps3 costing around 450 starting vs 300 start for xbox 360 and only additional great halo3 for 50

 

[Hemipower04]

Sony is huge in Japan and xbox will never be adopted just like the psp will never beat the gameboy in Japan. Halo 3's release won't do anything and that's if they even get it out. I give bungie like 5 more years before they release another Halo. But in the end i will own all the systems even though i prefer one over the other. But i have to admit that gears of war for the 360 looked impressive. Thats the only game that actually looked good for 360 ( oh and auto assault). Sony will dominate just like nintendo will never die. Microsofts only hope is to merge with nintendo because there is no way in hell microsoft games (or whatever that division is called) could buy nintendo. Maybe sony will buy them both like EA did with the NFL. Everyone knows they have the money.

 

[Hemipower04]

oh and don't be suprised if both systems cost over 400. Neither will be cheaper than the other.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Wow a lot of Sony fanboys around here. I don't trust a single word Sony says. Don't forget, the PS2 was supposed to be 2-3 times more powerful than the latest processor(s) of the day. It was even supposed to make it's way into the server and super computer space. (insert laughter) Well guess what, Sony is pulling exactly the same crap again and people are buying it. If you take the press releases from the PS2, they sound nearly identical to the press releases (read lies and deception) of the last few weeks.

I'm sure the PS3 will be a fine system, but it will never live up to the hype Sony tries to dump on us. Super computer it is not and never will be, no matter what Sony wants you to believe. The Xbox360 has nothing to worry about, both systems are going to be very close in capability. Sony has a big advantage naturally because of their user base, something Microsoft has to work very hard to overcome.

 

[karma112]

i like both sony mainly cus final fantasy and other rpgs but the cell chips they have cranked like what over 4 billions into those chips? im not sure but i now it was a rediculous amount and they are supposed to be the new world media for alot of things at least that is what sony hopes and they hardly ever fall back on what they say

 

[Hemipower04]

Do you know what the top of the line cpu was in jan of 2000. it was 1 ghz athlon. The emotion engine 333mhz was more powerful than that. And don't forget when they said that it was like jan 99'. Like in spring of 06' p4 and amd will have at least uped performance by 30%.

 

[rav3n2k]

Hemipower04, I have to pull you up, but not everyone is a Sony fanboy around here, and not everyone will go with their DVD player just because you did. I own a Pioneer, personally. As to you bringing the almighty PSP into this, who really cares? If M$ choose not to make a handheld, you can't compare PSP to something that's non-existent. I also don't know where you pulled your pricing figures from, as "rumours" are going around that the xBox 360 will be between 250 and 350 USD upon release - with the hardware that PS3 has, I believe it will be a fair bit more than the M$ opposition.

Consoles are not a matter of fanboys running around comparing who has the bigger this and bigger that, as it's already been pointed out that hardware is only about a third of console. (Probably even less now, since both M$ and Sony are going for them doubling-up as entertainment units)

Also Hemipower, I believe this board supports the "edit" button, meaning you need not double post and get so jumpy all the time.

Edit: You posted again: we don't need a history lesson on CPU performance, pal.

 

[Hemipower04]

i was just establishing sony's dominance over everything they make. i don't own sony i actually own philips but 3 out 4 people own something sony. and good luck with your "rumors" and the xbox costing 250-350.

 

[rav3n2k]

Luck has nothing to do with speculation. I'd also like to disagree with your ramblings about all other consoles being "imposters", whilst Sony is the only one capable of making consoles. Quite narrow-minded, I might add, and even an xBox fanboy would consider another console if a better one was actually released.

And by you saying that everyone owns a Sony DVD Player, and then in your next post saying that you don't (nor do I for that matter), you're doing exactly what Sony are doing; exagerating what it's really like. Please, keep the fanboy remarks out of it.

I also don't understand what you meant by first party games, as opposed to third party, do Sony even develop games for their own console?
As for your comments about M$ charging us for tournament hosting, there are 2 versions of xBox Live coming out; one is free, and one isn't.
I don't see how, in any way, the PS2 is a better design in comparison to the xBox. You've stated nothing but opinion there. (Perhaps all of your other statements follow suit)
The reason IBM are so caught up in their cell, is because it really is innovative (i'll give it that) and something that hasn't really been done. It's unleashed power greater than xBox 360 contains, but the question I put to you is: will it be utilized? You cannot answer that question yet, nobody can. (Unless you're going to start telling me you work as an undercover employee for Sony, just to come around to boards and tell fanboys off for their views.)
Square Enix has stated that Final Fantasy XI will be on xBox 360, and be supported by xBox Live, so where did you come up with this information about it not happening? (Once again an insider job, i assume?)

Don't believe me?

As we move forward with our cross-platform strategy to bring our titles to more gamers in multiple formats, we are extremely excited to launch our popular MMORPG on the Xbox 360 and look forward to this collaboration with Microsoft," said Yoichi Wada, president of Square Enix. "The Xbox 360 provides a powerful platform from which gamers can be immersed in the spell-binding FINAL FANTASY XI story that comes to life through collaborative online game play."

Feel free to read the entire article over here:
http://sev.prnewswire.com/entertainment/20050517/LAM15917052005-1.html

And when you decide to quote someone, quote them verbatim, without changing their spelling

Edit: I thought I'd have a quick check to see what rumours about PS3's RRP would hold, and, according to a couple of sources:

Looks like the PlayStation 3 may be shaping up to be one of the most expensive gaming consoles ever made, if rumours circulating in the Japanese press hold any water. Apparently, Sony officials said the PS3 would be going for ?less than 50,000 yen each,? which is the equivalent of about $465USD ? a whole lotta bling for a gaming system. We?re gonna have to start busting it overtime on that paper route.

It's something you must expect, however, since PS3 does use exceedingly expensive hardware (for a console).

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: AnandThenMan
Wow a lot of Sony fanboys around here. I don't trust a single word Sony says. Don't forget, the PS2 was supposed to be 2-3 times more powerful than the latest processor(s) of the day. It was even supposed to make it's way into the server and super computer space. (insert laughter) Well guess what, Sony is pulling exactly the same crap again and people are buying it. If you take the press releases from the PS2, they sound nearly identical to the press releases (read lies and deception) of the last few weeks.

I'm sure the PS3 will be a fine system, but it will never live up to the hype Sony tries to dump on us. Super computer it is not and never will be, no matter what Sony wants you to believe. The Xbox360 has nothing to worry about, both systems are going to be very close in capability. Sony has a big advantage naturally because of their user base, something Microsoft has to work very hard to overcome.

Just so you know, the PS2 was at least 2x more powerful than a desktop processor in that day, and actually it's still more powerful than even the latest processor today. Last I checked, neither tha latest P4 or A64 can put out 6.2 gflops.

 

[R3MF]

lol, but a 1GHz Athlon with a GF4 Ti4600 probably could.........

haven't we established that they combine the CPU and GPU to arrive at the GFLop figure?

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: R3MF
lol, but a 1GHz Athlon with a GF4 Ti4600 probably could.........

haven't we established that they combine the CPU and GPU to arrive at the GFLop figure?

They usually do, as in the case of xbox, xbox360, and the ps3. The ps2, however, didn't have a gpu - it's GS was more like a voodoo5 on steroids, it could not do any floating point math. So the 6.2 gflops figure is for the EE alone, and also for the whole system, since all the math was done on the cpu(s).

 

[Hemipower04]

What do you mean by luck? All those older systems where never better than the ps2, look at the games on it now. What is the nicest game to come out of the xbox? Look at resident evil 4 when it gets to the ps2 also God of war. Even though i did admit that the xbox was a better performing system you still say i'm narrow minded. Here are few games that sony publishes and develops just to name a few: Gran Turismo series, Jak series, Ratchet and Clank, God of war, Killzone, Sly series, Syphon filter, Socom.

 

[Hemipower04]

The free version of xbox doesn't allow you to do anything except talk to people.

 

[Hemipower04]

Final fantasy XI shouldn't even be considered a final fantasy game. Xbox and the pc could take that. Both the ps3 and xbox 360 will be far superior to current gen but sony will eventually come on top as always. And i will happily pay 500 dollars for the much tech in a ps3. Current computers like mine which the next gen consoles will destroy eventually cost at least 3 grand.

 

[Hemipower04]

Whats the nicest xbox game? Doom 3, thats a PC port to the xbox.

 

[irwincur]

My god there are a lot of MORONS here.

If you haven't noticed Sony has a record of stretching the truth. Now, it does not mean that their system will be terrible, but it does mean that they are MOST LIKELY pushing the bounds of reality once again.

Why do people buy it.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I have a feeling that after Sony's release there will be a lot of pissed off people because they have once again fallen horribly short of their claims.

If a PS3 is as powerful as a 1500 CPU Xeon system that it in the top 100 super computer list - I will buy one.