Question x86 and ARM architectures comparison thread.

[adroc_thurston]

why would you chuck the whole laptop away?
Laptop manufacturers provide parts replacements.

Commercial laptop lines tend to be really easily maintainable too.

 

[johnsonwax]

Warranty is way shorter than usage of most electronics. When you drop that M5 in a few years, they will be costly to replace. Or when you get water on it. Or it just wears out because.

Well, my 5 year old M1 Max MBP has zero issues despite being used considerably every day. Still worth over a grand used.

You're not wrong, but a different way to look at is that my MBP has cost me $2 per day since I bought it and it gives me more enjoyment, or perhaps reduction in aggravation than, well, anything else I can think of spending $2/day on. I would have no regrets spending that money all over again. I can't say the same for a DIY PC that wouldn't let me play Rimworld on my patio.

 

[Doug S]

Well, my 5 year old M1 Max MBP has zero issues despite being used considerably every day. Still worth over a grand used.

You're not wrong, but a different way to look at is that my MBP has cost me $2 per day since I bought it and it gives me more enjoyment, or perhaps reduction in aggravation than, well, anything else I can think of spending $2/day on. I would have no regrets spending that money all over again. I can't say the same for a DIY PC that wouldn't let me play Rimworld on my patio.

Everyone makes different calculations about what they think is valuable to spend money on, and what they think is valuable to have flexibility of tinkering/repair/etc. I'm kind of an odd duck running a Linux desktop since 1997 but having an iPhone since 2009. I like to tinker a bit on my PC, I'm willing to pay for that in terms of some things being more of a pain to do (though that's certainly gotten much better in Linux world in 2025 than it was in 1997!!)

But my phone I want to "just work". I don't give a sh-- about repairability, or tinkering around with jailbreaking or wish for third party app stores. I replace it every other year and do a similar calculation to yours - considering the number of hours per day I'm on my phone in one way or another the cost of the new one less the trade in amounts to something like 25 cents an hour. I pay more in car insurance per year than I spend on that new phone every other year less trade-in, and that's not even considering the depreciation, maintenance/repair, and gas - and I use it way less than my phone. I'm sure I'm well over $10/hour on my car. I don't even want to do that math, or I might never buy another car again lol

People who focus on stuff they spend hours per day with like their phone or laptop/PC are worrying about pennies vs the pounds their car costs them (unless they drive a fully depreciated beater that's more Toyota like than Jaguar like repair wise, or are in commute hell spending several hours in their car every day)

 

[LightningZ71]

My laptop strategy has been to buy laptops that are part of a line that has various different sub models at various performance levels. I buy a lower end one when it goes on sale and use that for a few years, then, once it's out of warranty and the OEM starts to dispose of replacement parts, I buy the motherboard and any other useful components from the highest end model and swap out my parts. My total cost is usually much less than what the high end sub model was sold for, plus I get years if extra service out if it.

 

[Joe NYC]

My laptop strategy has been to buy laptops that are part of a line that has various different sub models at various performance levels. I buy a lower end one when it goes on sale and use that for a few years, then, once it's out of warranty and the OEM starts to dispose of replacement parts, I buy the motherboard and any other useful components from the highest end model and swap out my parts. My total cost is usually much less than what the high end sub model was sold for, plus I get years if extra service out if it.

I think you are overdoing / overthinking this.

 

[DZero]

nope, lmao.
They're horrible laptops.
Cool idea though.

Horrible and cool idea can't be together, or is an interesting concept or just is trash from root.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Horrible and cool idea can't be together, or is an interesting concept or just is trash from root.

It's an interesting concept with bad execution.

 

[Covfefe]

Horrible and cool idea can't be together, or is an interesting concept or just is trash from root.

Ehh, there are plenty of things that are a cool idea, but bad in practice. Cryptocurrency is a perfect example. It's incredible that we can create a decentralized currency using math, but in reality it sucks. It enables scams, money laundering, and ransomware, and in most cases it's not even usable as an actual currency.

 

[DZero]

It's an interesting concept with bad execution.

Sad story is no longer interesting. Modular stuff and even now the traditional PCs are losing the edge due smaller components, rendenring them very hard to make.

 

[poke01]

Idle wall power from Jeff Geerling. Why is the GB10 idle so high?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Idle wall power from Jeff Geerling. Why is the GB10 idle so high?

It has a 400G NIC hanging off it.
How is this a question Connect-X7 is on the spec sheet

 

[poke01]

It has a 400G NIC hanging off it.
How is this a question Connect-X7 is on the spec sheet

https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/suggestions-for-reducing-idle-power-consumption/348562/6

It looks like the cpu clocks don’t go low enough when idle. the NIC should be about 20 watts by itself

 

[Gideon]

A really good overview of Skylake Frontend a n Backend from the legendary Matt Godbolt:

IMHO partcularily good for novices like me (but does require at least "hellow world" level of understanding of x86 assembly).

Sadly he didn't have time to go into Branch prediction. But still, gives an excellent overview of how semi-modern CPUs work

 

[soresu]

from the legendary Matt Godbolt

Lol wot?

The real legend was the name all along 🤣😂

 

[511]

Lol wot?

The real legend was the name all along 🤣😂

Matt Godbolt of the compiler Explorer

 

[poke01]

Where is the M5 die shot I doubt it would be this small.

From @Kurnalsalts. A single A19 Pro GPU core is 2.9mm2 and the whole GPU complex is 21.2mm2.

lets say the M5 is 3.2mm2 for a single GPU core and it has more cache and logic than A19 Pro, so I guessed about ~36mm2. So yeah the PTL iGPU is HUGE.

 

[jdubs03]

View attachment 136336

From @Kurnalsalts. A single A19 Pro GPU core is 2.9mm2 and the whole GPU complex is 21.2mm2.

lets say the M5 is 3.2mm2 for a single GPU core and it has more cache and logic than A19 Pro, so I guessed about ~36mm2. So yeah the PTL iGPU is HUGE.

Here ye go.

 

[511]

From @Kurnalsalts. A single A19 Pro GPU core is 2.9mm2 and the whole GPU complex is 21.2mm2.

lets say the M5 is 3.2mm2 for a single GPU core and it has more cache and logic than A19 Pro, so I guessed about ~36mm2. So yeah the PTL iGPU is HUGE

If we go by this yes it is 36mm2 if they have not added much more L2 even than it would be couple of extra mm2 like 38 fair PTL is 42% more area on slightly dense node or roughly 1.36X more area is node but the question is does it deliver 35% more performance overall.

 

[DZero]

Some benchmarks found.

Snapdragon X2 Elite Extreme benchmarks show better single-core performance than Apple’s M4 Max

Qualcomm Snapdragon X2 benchmarks reveal big gains for Windows on ARM, with X2 Elite and Elite Extreme rivaling Apple’s M4 chips.

www.gizmochina.com

This is interesting, since the X2 Elite is on the ballpark of the big names in terms of Laptop and bordering the desktop counterparts

 

[511]

Some benchmarks found.

Snapdragon X2 Elite Extreme benchmarks show better single-core performance than Apple’s M4 Max

Qualcomm Snapdragon X2 benchmarks reveal big gains for Windows on ARM, with X2 Elite and Elite Extreme rivaling Apple’s M4 chips.

www.gizmochina.com

View attachment 136367
This is interesting, since the X2 Elite is on the ballpark of the big names in terms of Laptop and bordering the desktop counterparts

The ST sure is nice but Geekbench MT meh as a MT bench

 

[jdubs03]

Old news on that. We saw the reference design benches back in October
From their Hawaii event:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/first-tests-qualcomms-snapdragon-x2-elite-extreme-shows-some-serious-speed

 

[DZero]

Old news on that. We saw the reference design benches back in October
From their Hawaii event:
View attachment 136369

https://www.pcmag.com/news/first-tests-qualcomms-snapdragon-x2-elite-extreme-shows-some-serious-speed

Yeah, but one thing is design laptops and now those are the real deal. And that's what they promised, I am really interested on that now.

 

[Geddagod]

fun fact, Intel now claims PTL's single core perf/watt can now match Qualcomm X elite!

 

[poke01]

fun fact, Intel now claims PTL's single core perf/watt can now match Qualcomm X elite!
View attachment 136378

Isn’t that one one elite

 

[Geddagod]

Isn’t that one one elite

yea, it's not the new 3nm one, it's the old N4 one based on a 2 gen old arch as well.
Also with how much PTL uncore improved I doubt it's the core side doing the heavy lifting of being able to compete in total package/board power vs qualcomm, but whatever lol.