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X800 GT to battle the 6800 GT.

A

Ackmed

Diamond Member
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20040716055607.html

ATI Technologies faced strong competition when NVIDIA Corporation unveiled its GeForce 6800 GT graphics chip earlier this year, but the Markham, Ontario-based graphics company reportedly preps a counter-attack with a new product based on the RADEON X800 XT micro-architecture.

A report over China-based web-site GZeasy.com claims that the new graphics chip from ATI will be called RADEON X800 GT and will be a down-clocked RADEON X800 XT graphics processor with 16 rendering pipelines. The so-called RADEON X800 GT visual processing unit will function at 425MHz and will carry 256MB of GDDR3 memory clocked at 900MHz onboard. Initially the new RADEON X800 product will be offered for systems with AGP 8x port.

Some sources close to ATI expressed doubts that ATI would launch a part with ?GT? brand-name.

Earlier ATI offered only two graphics options for the high-end market: ATI RADEON X800 PRO and ATI RADEON X800 XT with 12 and 16 pixel pipelines respectively. While the high-end RADEON X800 XT delivers performance in-line with competing GeForce 6800 Ultra, the RADEON X800 PRO was not as fast as the rivaling GeForce 6800 GT in quite some cases. To oppose NVIDIA?s ?GT? part ATI might add a new SKU into its plans.

An ATI Technologies spokesperson in Oberhaching, Germany, declined to comment on the report.

Earlier this month ATI unveiled RADEON X800 SE graphics product with cut-down specifications to target OEMs. The RADEON X800 SE is available only in PCI Express x16 flavour.
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If its true, it can only be a good thing. As the X800 Pro price will have to drop, or perhaps be phased out early.
 
The performance on the pro is too good to give it the boot IMO, just dropping the price tag would be enough to force nV to either reduce the price of the 6800 or lose sales in the $300 range@that point. Of course, if the proposed GT is to the XT what the nV GT is to the Ultra, then sales of the XT will suffer.
 
one possible scenario:

1) X800pro will move to the 6800 price point after a) the new gen price gouging is over, and b) when a lower clocked X800XT is marketed.

2) Lower clocked X800XT will offer a slower ram than the flagship model to control loss of sales of the flagship.

3) Flagship will recieve a slight speed bump and maybe faster ram to a) separate it further from lower clocked XT and b) counter slight performance increases due nVidia's SM3.0 support.
 
I don't see why they didn't release a 12/16/16 pipe lineup from the beginning like Nvidia did. But if they do drop the Pro to $300 (or even $350), Nvidia is royally screwed unless they respond in the same fashion.

I've heard that ATI manufacturing costs are significantly lower than Nvidia's, which gives them an advantage.
 
Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
I don't see why they didn't release a 12/16/16 pipe lineup from the beginning like Nvidia did. But if they do drop the Pro to $300 (or even $350), Nvidia is royally screwed unless they respond in the same fashion.

I've heard that ATI manufacturing costs are significantly lower than Nvidia's, which gives them an advantage.
Click to expand...

Doom 3 guarantees nvidia a healthy dose of lovin' this time around. sorry, but that's just the way it is.
 
Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
I don't see why they didn't release a 12/16/16 pipe lineup from the beginning like Nvidia did. But if they do drop the Pro to $300 (or even $350), Nvidia is royally screwed unless they respond in the same fashion.

I've heard that ATI manufacturing costs are significantly lower than Nvidia's, which gives them an advantage.
Click to expand...

Low-K wafers are more expensive than normal ones. ATis cost is more or less equal to NVIDIAs. (except R&D budgets, no one has even the slightest where either company lies)
 
Assuming the same yield, yes, but the rumors have placed ATi yields above nVidia's, no (thus Orton's "dies per wafer" comment)? Granted, nV's availability doesn't seem to demonstrate weaker yields, but maybe the limited GDDR3 memory supply is masking other production constraints.
 
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
The performance on the pro is too good to give it the boot IMO, just dropping the price tag would be enough to force nV to either reduce the price of the 6800 or lose sales in the $300 range@that point. Of course, if the proposed GT is to the XT what the nV GT is to the Ultra, then sales of the XT will suffer.
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I agree, the X800pro should be about $30 or so less than the 6800GT, and Ati is having problems delivering 16pipe GPU's anyway's. I guess they could alway's launch the X800GT on paper :roll:
 
If they simply lowered the price on their X800XT to be 50$ cheaper than the 6800ultra (and not releasing another "GT" type of card) that would cause some noise!! 😀
 
don't see why they didn't release a 12/16/16 pipe lineup from the beginning like Nvidia did. But if they do drop the Pro to $300 (or even $350), Nvidia is royally screwed unless they respond in the same fashion.
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Poor planning. ATI launched the 9500 which was a disaster when it came to margins due to it being a 9700 chip being sold on a 200 dollar card.

I've heard that ATI manufacturing costs are significantly lower than Nvidia's, which gives them an advantage.
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I dont see how this can be true since ATI actually makes their own cards.
 
I don't follow you, genx87. I was referring to the cost of making the GPU dies. Card costs may favor ATi ever so slightly simply because they use smaller cards, but the real cost is in the GPU (and the memory, but that should be about even between the two IHVs). I'm not sure what ATi offering retail cards has to do with GPU cost, and I'm pretty sure ATi, like nVidia, doesn't normally sell full cards to OEMs (though both appear to have done so with their recent high-end launches).
 
I don't follow you, genx87. I was referring to the cost of making the GPU dies. Card costs may favor ATi ever so slightly simply because they use smaller cards, but the real cost is in the GPU (and the memory, but that should be about even between the two IHVs). I'm not sure what ATi offering retail cards has to do with GPU cost, and I'm pretty sure ATi, like nVidia, doesn't normally sell full cards to OEMs (though both appear to have done so with their recent high-end launches).
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GPU is part of the equation for ATI while for Nvidia it is the whole equation.

The total cost for ATI is higher than it is for Nvidia when it comes to the costs of a card. This is because Nvidia only produces the GPU while ATI is making the card. Granted there are ATI branded cards from other companies. But ATI does indeed sell cards as well as GPUs.
 
Originally posted by: shady06
wow, this sucks

now i dont know to buy the 6800 GT or wait to see what ATI has up their sleeves...
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Nah, you just need to pick something and roll with it. In April, I was hellbent on picking up a 6800 Ultra, but after a few pre-orders and weighing the options I went with a 6800 GT. I got it yesterday, and I am completely blown away. This card is awesome, and it's not even top of the line. I think that no matter you go with this generation, it will be amazing. It really doesn't matter if you gain or lose 5 fps here or there against another card....

There are a lot of poeple talking about waiting and getting stuff cheaper, which is respectable, but you have to remember that the reason things drop in price is also because they drop in value. Like if you paid $450 for a 9800XT the day it came out or if you paid $400 for it the day the X800 Pro was launced, you get the same card for less, but it would also be less valuable. This point is obvious, and I'm not saying everyone should buy before the end of next week, but just that if all you ever do is wait and see, that is all you will ever do.
 
Originally posted by: nitromullet
Originally posted by: shady06
wow, this sucks

now i dont know to buy the 6800 GT or wait to see what ATI has up their sleeves...
Click to expand...

Nah, you just need to pick something and roll with it. In April, I was hellbent on picking up a 6800 Ultra, but after a few pre-orders and weighing the options I went with a 6800 GT. I got it yesterday, and I am completely blown away. This card is awesome, and it's not even top of the line. I think that no matter you go with this generation, it will be amazing. It really doesn't matter if you gain or lose 5 fps here or there against another card....

There are a lot of poeple talking about waiting and getting stuff cheaper, which is respectable, but you have to remember that the reason things drop in price is also because they drop in value. Like if you paid $450 for a 9800XT the day it came out or if you paid $400 for it the day the X800 Pro was launced, you get the same card for less, but it would also be less valuable. This point is obvious, and I'm not saying everyone should buy before the end of next week, but just that if all you ever do is wait and see, that is all you will ever do.
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This isnt always the case. Basically, even though there isnt a new top card, the cards still drop somewhat in price. Basically companies know what they can get upon an initial launch so they price the cards somewhat higher then what they are priced after prices settle down (also prices fluctuate due to competition and their prices).
 
Of course they will drop in price. If you consider the effective life of a top end video card is about 2 years, waiting 6 months decreases that lifetime by 25%, so you should pay 25% less. I realize that it is possible for some to sqeeze more than 2 years out of a video card, but I am referring to the top end where giving them a 2 year lifespan is being generous.
 
I said this would happen a month ago🙂

06/22/2004 11:49 AM Subject: RE: It looks like the 6800GT is clearly superior to the X800Pro now...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Zebo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I were Ati I would open the pipes which costs them nothing and sell it at $400 street...but that's just me.
 
Originally posted by: rickn
Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
I don't see why they didn't release a 12/16/16 pipe lineup from the beginning like Nvidia did. But if they do drop the Pro to $300 (or even $350), Nvidia is royally screwed unless they respond in the same fashion.

I've heard that ATI manufacturing costs are significantly lower than Nvidia's, which gives them an advantage.
Click to expand...

Doom 3 guarantees nvidia a healthy dose of lovin' this time around. sorry, but that's just the way it is.
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hl2 gaurantees ati a health dose of lovin' too, so i dont think the games will make that much of an impact. Besides, i remember reading in another thread that the issues with the previous radeon series on doom3 were fixed....something about performing 2 shader operations in one pass or the like
 
I don't think that the x800gt or whatever the name will be, has to do mainly with terms of perf.
The problem IMO has to be focused in prestigious terms.
As we have seen till today, x800pro and 6800gt may be on par in terms of perf, so if someone wants to choose one of them focuses on other issues.
Even if they drop the price they have to face other issues.
I mean why take a 12pipe card and not a 16pipe one?
They already have the issue of SM3.0 which may not prove such a big issue after all,but surely cost them in prestige. That can't be fixed (for obvious reasons) so they have to focus on bringing another 16pipe card on the surface.
Otherwise they could have just reduced the price of x800pro.
 
Originally posted by: mrwxyz
Originally posted by: rickn
Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
I don't see why they didn't release a 12/16/16 pipe lineup from the beginning like Nvidia did. But if they do drop the Pro to $300 (or even $350), Nvidia is royally screwed unless they respond in the same fashion.

I've heard that ATI manufacturing costs are significantly lower than Nvidia's, which gives them an advantage.
Click to expand...

Doom 3 guarantees nvidia a healthy dose of lovin' this time around. sorry, but that's just the way it is.
Click to expand...

hl2 gaurantees ati a health dose of lovin' too, so i dont think the games will make that much of an impact. Besides, i remember reading in another thread that the issues with the previous radeon series on doom3 were fixed....something about performing 2 shader operations in one pass or the like
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Not really. The benches I've seen of HL2 have the nVidia card ahead or close there as well.

BTW this makes some sense as they can't seem to get an XTPE out to save their lives.
 
Not really. The benches I've seen of HL2 have the nVidia card ahead or close there as well.
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And pcgamer supposedly says that Doom 3 runs 1-2 fps better on a GT than a Pro. It's a moot point really, people should really wait for the game to be released before buying a card for the game anyway.
 
So it will be a under clocked XT.... If they do come out with it the x800 XT wont sell at all. Doesnt make much sense to me.
 
Originally posted by: GZFant
and they just had to call it the X800GT.............unoriginal rackitty schmackitty......!
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At least they're calling it something that makes sense. If they really wanted to screw people over, they could name it after NV's high-end part: "X800 Ultra Extreme." (Similar to what NV did with the 5600XT)
 
Originally posted by: Regs
So it will be a under clocked XT.... If they do come out with it the x800 XT wont sell at all. Doesnt make much sense to me.
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perhaps they're just doing something with poor yields, and just selling it w/ lower clocks than actually cutting the pipes and selling it as a pro... not like there are many xt's to sell in the first place 😛
 
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