X2 3800 Toledo

[f4phantom2500]

cpu-z reports that my X2 3800 is Toledo based, but I thought the Toledo cores were the 2x1MB cache chips, and that the 2x512KB, like the 3800, were Manchesters. What's up with that?

 

[AkumaX]

Its the case of the "1/2 disabled" cache cpus.

AMD failed to name these cpus. For instance, 1/2 cache Bartons were called Thortons, and 1/2 cache Tbreds were called Applebreds
Manchesters only have 2 x 512kb, so that's no problem
In this case, I dub the 1/2 cache disabled X2 3800+s, "Toledo-512"
Your cpu was most likely derived from an Opteron 170 (mine was)

 

[f4phantom2500]

Probably was, stepping is CCBLE which is apparently a low end opty stepping. I dunno if this is a good or a bad thing, as if it is an Opty derivative then it should overclock pretty well, especially since it doesn't have to power the extra cache. OTOH, the fact that the cache is there and not being used might hinder it some, I dunno. I have it running stably at 2.5GHz right now, so eh, no wonder it didn't make the cut as an Opty "This thing doesn't OC well and has defective cache...let's disable half the cache and sell it as an X2"

 

[neuroteek]

Hy guys, as you can see this is my first post at this forum.
Accidentally bumped into this thread, and have a few questions for you guys.

I also own a Toledo-512, 4200+ model, and its running a bit hot.....Im measuring my core temps with everest 3.50, and Core Temp 0,94, and i think they are pretty accurate.

First, my rig is : 4200+ Toledo with AC Freezer 64 pro, MBO Gigabyte K8NF-9 F11Bios, 4x512 Kingmax HC DDR500,
FSP Blue Storm 500....
Now, my main problem are high core temps when on full load, even at stock voltages and clock, Temps in idle are pretty much normal Core 0=29, Core1=33, but when stressed with OCCT stress test Core0 becomes really hot, and reaches 58 degrees celsious, while Core1 remains at 50. What are your load temps AkumaX, and with which utility you use to monitor

My case is well aired, 80mmx1 intake, 92x1 on the side, blowing on the NB, 120x1 exhaust, AC freezer is not cream of the crop HS, but it isnt crap either, My old winnie ran a lot cooler under the same circumstances

ADA4200DAA5CD (ADA4200BVBOX) E6
CBBWE 0632 APMW

These are my cpu ID and stepping, so f4phantom2500, if you could tell me something about this one, id be very grateful, CBID says that my CPU has a TCD of 110W, maybe thats why its running so hot. Running on stock it is slower than my old trusty Winnie 3200+, so id like to OC it a little, but i cant raise Vcore because of the temps, and it wont OC at stock voltage, so................................ So if anybody had similar issues, please step forward. TNX very much!

 

[neuroteek]

ANYONE?

 

[f4phantom2500]

I don't remember how mine runs at stock, but it runs about that hot at ~1.48v and 2.5GHz. I use the same cooler with AS5 applied. It doesn't bother me that much because the maxtcase is 63C and I've never seen it crack 60, but it is overclocked by 25%. I'll run it at stock later and see what kind of temps I get.

 

[aigomorla]

the original X2 3800+ were half cache disabled Toledo's and not manchesters.

You have a old X2 3800+ which is a good thing because they costed more then the manchester brothers when you had a option to select at tankguys.


As for the 4200+ i have no idea. I wasnt aware they did the same thing for 4200+ series. But its nothing to be freaked out about. My Toledo X2 3800+ was pwning almost all the manchesters out there. I believe her max was 2.97ghz. She's now my NAS resting happily downvolted to 2.4ghz on 1.19v


I wouldnt freak out as toledo's are far better chips then manchesters. If it was the other way around, opty's wouldnt be toledo's

 

[f4phantom2500]

I thought the only difference was the amount of cache? If that's the case, then these are just manchesters with some extra dead weight right? Mine, CCBWE 0545RPMW, doesn't oc as well as yours, I have it at ~1.48V for 2.5GHz. Stable, but hot.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: f4phantom2500
I thought the only difference was the amount of cache? If that's the case, then these are just manchesters with some extra dead weight right? Mine, CCBWE 0545RPMW, doesn't oc as well as yours, I have it at ~1.48V for 2.5GHz. Stable, but hot.

no manchesters by creation i believe only have 512kb cache on die. Ours are Toledo's which come 1MB cache, with half cache disabled.

So basically if you think of an engine as 1. regular, 2. turbo'd 3. twin turbo

the regular would be the manchester, the turbo'd would be our half cache disabled toledo, and twin turbo would be the full out toledo core.

You of course cant use my comparision on performance of these 3 different chips.


And to help you out a bit, my toledo X2, as well as many others, did better on the 9x setting and not 10x setting. Also your ram might be limited, the cpu doesnt like to play nice if the ram wont play nice.

Also keep HTT near or below 1k. I prefer to be a tad bit below.
And make sure your ram isnt choking at the FSB. So use a divider. If you dont know what im talking about, then consult a overclocking manual, and learn the basics on ocing a AMD.

My NAS aka old X2 Toldeo its JH-E6 <- toledo

My imensly scary Opty
she's a toledo as well.


OH my NAS cant do 2.8 anymore because those ram's are on the Opty. Hence why my Opty can clock so high. :T

 

[lopri]

Holy poodle, 3190MHz @1.45V? I mean, regardless of stability that's an amazing overclock out of a 175. What mobo?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: lopri
Holy Toledo, 3190MHz @1.45V? I mean, regardless of stability that's an amazing overclock out of a 175. What mobo?

Fixed.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: lopri
Holy poodle, 3190MHz @1.45V? I mean, regardless of stability that's an amazing overclock out of a 175. What mobo?

dfi expert
OCZ platinum Rev.2 TCCD

Her Internals

 

[Smoove910]

I have a recent 3800x2 purchase from Newegg... (LDBFE 0633DPMW) I can run 2.5ghz on stock vcore. Currently am sitting at 35c under a Zalman 7700cu. I believe mine is a true Manchester since CPU-z identifies it as such. Anyways, I also have the problem of high load temps. I'm pushing 60c when I run full load with Orthos and the longest I've let it run is about 6 hours. I believe it to be stable, and I know it'll boot into Windows at 2.8ghz but the idle temps were outrageously high at 40-45c. I just purchased a used Zalman 9500 to trade out the 7700cu since I heard it was a better cooler. Should be interesting since I have to put it in a Q-Pack. LOL, we'll have to see....

 

[f4phantom2500]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

no manchesters by creation i believe only have 512kb cache on die. Ours are Toledo's which come 1MB cache, with half cache disabled.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying; ours are Manchesters with "extra dead weight" since Manchesters physically have 2x512KB and ours have 2x1MB with half of it disabled, which effectively makes it 2x512KB.

So basically if you think of an engine as 1. regular, 2. turbo'd 3. twin turbo

the regular would be the manchester, the turbo'd would be our half cache disabled toledo, and twin turbo would be the full out toledo core.

I don't get your analogy, I mean I don't see how having disabled cache makes Toledo 3800's better than Manchester 3800's, since it is disabled. As far as Toledoes using higher grade silicon or whatever, I thought the only difference was the amount of cache, so if it's disabled isn't it effectively "the same" as a Manchester, only carrying around the dead weight of the extra cache? Speaking of which, I don't think it would since it's disabled, but would the disabled cache generate any extra heat or have any other negative effects just because it's there and not being used? I mean, does electricity still have to run through it or anything?

And to help you out a bit, my toledo X2, as well as many others, did better on the 9x setting and not 10x setting.

Mine didn't, It was rock stable at 2.54GHz (until I put more RAM in...read the rest of my post and you'll see) but at 9x it failed 285, and after that I didn't feel like messing with it because the possible 16MHz wasn't worth the effort, plus I half expected it to fail after like 20 hours or something.

Also your ram might be limited, the cpu doesnt like to play nice if the ram wont play nice.[q/]

My RAM is junk; when I overclocked it I used a matched pair of 256MB kingston sticks, PC3200, so that's not the junk RAM, but I scrounged together 2 more single sided 256MB dimms so I could have a gig until I can get a 2GB kit; they're both generic, one's PC2700 the other's PC2100, so I had the divider at 100 for awhile so it'd be running at 125, but I just increased it to 133 so it'll be running ~PC2700 speeds. I dunno if the 2100 stick can take it, but it's holding up fine so far.



Also keep HTT near or below 1k. I prefer to be a tad bit below.
And make sure your ram isnt choking at the FSB. So use a divider. If you dont know what im talking about, then consult a overclocking manual, and learn the basics on ocing a AMD.

Lol, dude I read this entire guide, I know what you're talking about. I would be immensely impressed if someone could crank the HTT to 250 and leave the multi at 5x and be stable, on any motherboard.

its JH-E6 <- toledo

Yeah, so's mine, but I don't really know the significance of it. Is that a special revision, or are you just stating that JH-E6 is reserved for Toledoes?

 

[neuroteek]

I see aigomorla has been singing toledos praise, i wish i could say I have similar experience,
but far from it.......................my extremely hot toledo is also a poor overclocker, much worse than my old winchester3200+, on stock Vcore it wont OC at all, ive tried to run it at 240*11(2640MHz)@ 1,45, but it could not pass prime95, it would show errors in the first few minutes, so................

Dont wanna go any higher with vcore, because this cpu is too hot as is, i would need at least watercooling to run it with upped vcore, and keep it under 60, btw i dont like seeing my cpus over 50, but cant help myself with this one

I dont think im ram limited, because these settings worked fine with the old winnie, it ran 240*10 rock stable, 4*512 Kingmax HC sticks ran at 480MHz, 2,5/3/3/7 2T, no problem!

Could it be that this CPUs memory controller doesnt like these modules, and the old one did.

This piece of s**t wont do 240*10 at stock voltage, and my bios mem deviders dont work(or im missing something) so i must run my mem at 400, and im not fond of that at all.

If anyone has any experience with GA-K8NF-9, and its bioses, please speak up.....
If my cpu has to stay at stock, it would be nice if my DDR didnt. TNX very much for the info guys. If you have any more ideas or info, please share

Thanks again

 

[aigomorla]

well im sorry to hear your toledo isnt working with you. Ive had 3 AMD's all toledo's and they all did 2.6ghz on stock voltage.

Some examples
lemonlime - 3003MHz - AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (Manchester) - DFI NF4 Ultra-D - 1.45V - Phase Change
csimon - 2892MHz - AMD Opteron 165 (Toledo) - Abit AT8-32X- 1.55V - Watercooling
mirage - 2800MHz - AMD Opteron 165 (Toledo) - Asrock 939Dual-VSTA - 1.36V - Aircooling
castellman - 2700MHz - AMD Opteron 170 (Toledo) - MSI Neo4 Ultra - 1.30V - Aircooling
synaptix - 2691MHz - AMD Opteron 165 (Toledo) - ASUS A8V Deluxe Rev. 2 - 1.45V - Aircooling
csimon - 2687MHz - AMD Opteron 170 (Denmark/Toledo) - Asus A8R-MVP - 1.475V - Aircooling
mirage - 2600MHz - AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (Machester) - Asrock 939Dual-VSTA - 1.500V - Aircooling
muddocktor - 2547MHz - AMD Opteron 170 (Toledo) - EPoX EP-9NDA3+ - 1.544V - Aircooling

As you can see most of the top stable high oc cpu's are Toledo's :X

My Opteron steppings are CCBBE 0617MW
My X2 Steppings are CCBWE 0550 VPMW

ack edit because i acidentally flipped the M and W in steppings
:T

 

[neuroteek]

Yeah, but all those are Opterons, not a single X2 toledo there at the top, but i see your x2 shared CCBWE stepping with opterons, i think.....so maybe that is why it did so well.

Mine was CBBWE, and it was impossible to find anyone with the same CPU stepping, and get some info, anyway, ill try this chip on another MBO, and see if there will be any changes, but the temp sensors are inside the cores so i doubt there will be any difference.

"muddocktor - 2547MHz - AMD Opteron 170 (Toledo) - EPoX EP-9NDA3+ - 1.544V - Aircooling" - and this one aint exactly a good overclocker in my book, isnt 1,544v@aircooling a bit high for an opty?!

High high can i go with vcore, if i manage to cool this piece of s**t

I think i wont even bother, with the next paycheck i will put my rig up for sale, and go with intel, e4300, every other hitting over 3Ghz on air, no fuss, just affordable speed....never thought ill be seeing that from intel again. Now when thats settled, im at peace again.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: neuroteek
Yeah, but all those are Opterons, not a single X2 toledo there at the top, but i see your x2 shared CCBWE stepping with opterons, i think.....so maybe that is why it did so well.

Mine was CBBWE, and it was impossible to find anyone with the same CPU stepping, and get some info, anyway, ill try this chip on another MBO, and see if there will be any changes, but the temp sensors are inside the cores so i doubt there will be any difference.

"muddocktor - 2547MHz - AMD Opteron 170 (Toledo) - EPoX EP-9NDA3+ - 1.544V - Aircooling" - and this one aint exactly a good overclocker in my book, isnt 1,544v@aircooling a bit high for an opty?!

High high can i go with vcore, if i manage to cool this piece of s**t

I think i wont even bother, with the next paycheck i will put my rig up for sale, and go with intel, e4300, every other hitting over 3Ghz on air, no fuss, just affordable speed....never thought ill be seeing that from intel again. Now when thats settled, im at peace again.

i just copy and pasted random high rankings over at amd geek.

But i assure you, most of the high hitting chips were toledo's.

Anyhow, good luck! :T ocing takes up quite a bit of time testing and stressing.