X2 3800+@2.55 vs 820D@3.5 Impressions and benchmarks ! ** Update, encoding bench results in **

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by: OhNoPoPo
Mark,

that was quite illuminating and it has definitely helped me stay away from the P-D's. I currently own a 3.6 P4 (stock, no OC'ing). Would you or anyone care to comment if non-multithreaded apps will feel as fast on the X2 as it currently feels on my 3.6?

Would love to hear some responses!

Also, I'd like to add, I am NOT a gamer.

Hell yeah they will. My X2 at 2.5 NEVER lags. I haven't had it lag a single time. 2XF@H running 24/7 (almost 600PPD btw ), games, everything runs butter smooth. I can alt+tab out of BF2 and web browse just fine. This thing takes everything you can throw at it and eats it for breakfast.

 

[Markfw]

First to answer OhNoPoPo. The P4 is still only a single core, and two real cores will allways beat a single core PD or X2. Its just the X2 is so much better than the PD due to a better design, including an integrated memory controller. The X2 3800+@2550 will undoubtedly beat your 3.6 P4 in anything, and feel faster in multi-threaded apps. I don't think anyone would argue that one. Even my 820D@3.5 might beat it !

Next, as to why pushing it ? I do believe it is now stable at 3.5. If it wasn;t I would give it more volts, change setting, or then go down. I want to prove to myself and anybody else wondering, what is the best this chip can do on air cooling WITHOUT THROTTLING compared to a mild X2 3800+ OC (I think that 2550 is pretty mild from what I have seen). That is my goal.

As far as the ebay comment, your guess is as good as mine, but all I have read does not dispute anything I have found (from reputable review sites)

 

[Leper Messiah]

what volts are you running that X2 at? mine is doing 2.5 on stock volts, i'm wondering how much futher I should push it considering how hot my temp sensor still says its running at...

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Leper Messiah
what volts are you running that X2 at? mine is doing 2.5 on stock volts, i'm wondering how much futher I should push it considering how hot my temp sensor still says its running at...

Its at 1.475, actually the same as the 820D now. What cooling to you have ? whatever it takes to stay under 55c under the biggest load, and the worst of conditions, thats the sweet spot IMO.

Edit: Update on the throttling thing. Now that I am monitoring using S&M, I re-started the encode to see if it did throttle. I am back up to 55c at times, but holding 53c most of the time like I saw during the test I ran. Core0=3500+/-5, and core1=3470+/-5. No change in 1/2 hour or so, and the amient is going up in here a couple degrees, so I think the test is valid. Also, I tried to set the audio at 384, like the X2 test, and its not an option for some reason.

 

[OhNoPoPo]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
First to answer OhNoPoPo. The P4 is still only a single core, and two real cores will allways beat a single core PD or X2. Its just the X2 is so much better than the PD due to a better design, including an integrated memory controller. The X2 3800+@2550 will undoubtedly beat your 3.6 P4 in anything, and feel faster in multi-threaded apps. I don't think anyone would argue that one. Even my 820D@3.5 might beat it !

Wow, thanks for the fast response.

I couldn't find the "stuff" (case,mobo, ram) you were using with your X2...maybe you had it in a previous post and I missed it...could you summarize?

Are there ANY apps I would feel that an AMD would be slower than an AMD? (I built an AMD machine a long while back and swore I'd never buy AMD again because I had so many issues with it and the motherboard, which was a very highly rated one at the time...so coming from that, I'm still trying to gather as much info as I can....)

 

[Markfw]

Case is an Antec Sonata, but if you are a gamer, you may need a bigger PSU. My 4400+ has a 9600pro in it, and still works at 2550, but that is probably all the video card it will handle without a bigger PSU. (450-500 for a 6800GT??)

Mobo is a Neo4-F, very common around here. Ram currently is Geil PC3200 (supposed to be cas2) one 512 meg stick with a 166 divider. I will be replacing that next week with 2x512 meg PC4800 Patriot cas 2.5 (in the mail so to speak from newegg) so I can run 1:1 at 1T. Right now its at 2T.

I think if you read enough posts here, you will see the X2 has no problems, so long as th builder has some skill and installs everything correctly with the right drivers. But if you have a 3.6 P4, thats no slug, so don't expect big leaps in performance unless you are using multi-threaded apps. THEN you will see up to 2X performance.

Edit: Forgot your last question. Anything run slower than your P4 3.6 with HT ? Not that I can think of. Read a lot of posts, and it will become clear why everybody likes the X2, it has no weaknesses. (other than bad installs)

 

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Leper Messiah
what volts are you running that X2 at? mine is doing 2.5 on stock volts, i'm wondering how much futher I should push it considering how hot my temp sensor still says its running at...

Its at 1.475, actually the same as the 820D now. What cooling to you have ? whatever it takes to stay under 55c under the biggest load, and the worst of conditions, thats the sweet spot IMO.

Edit: Update on the throttling thing. Now that I am monitoring using S&M, I re-started the encode to see if it did throttle. I am back up to 55c at times, but holding 53c most of the time like I saw during the test I ran. Core0=3500+/-5, and core1=3470+/-5. No change in 1/2 hour or so, and the amient is going up in here a couple degrees, so I think the test is valid. Also, I tried to set the audio at 384, like the X2 test, and its not an option for some reason.

TT big Typhoon. Thats why I think my temps are off, since nothing seems to lower the temps it runs at. I don't want to take the chance and blow the proc though, which I why I don't want to go too much higher. Its too bad though. I think this proc has like 2.8 in it, if I knew what was really going on.

 

[Markfw]

I can't believe that I have so few replies. I know the 820 was bad, and so did Duvie (he asked for input on an encoding thread and didn;t get much either)

So is this a confirmation that nobody cares, since nobody is going to buy one ? Actually that is what I would have expected. I just kept reading where people were going to buy this POS since it was so cheap. Anyway, I guess I won't worry anymore. If anybody wants any more benches let me know. I guess I spent too much time and money on this POS chip.

 

[karioskasra]

Everybody's arguing over at Video and P&N anyway, so this isn't exactly a high traffic area -P

 

[AkumaX]

then you have that thread in OT where all the mods are banning people left and right

 

[OhNoPoPo]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I can't believe that I have so few replies. I know the 820 was bad, and so did Duvie (he asked for input on an encoding thread and didn;t get much either)

So is this a confirmation that nobody cares, since nobody is going to buy one ? Actually that is what I would have expected. I just kept reading where people were going to buy this POS since it was so cheap. Anyway, I guess I won't worry anymore. If anybody wants any more benches let me know. I guess I spent too much time and money on this POS chip.

Would you mind answering a stupid question then? I've never OC'd anything and I'm apprehensive about getting in the muck of things. I've read the "guide" here and another how-to on another forum, but truthfully, I am still as confused as ever. And I'm decently computer literate.

Should I just get a stock 4400+ X2?

 

[Markfw]

No. Too much money. With assitance her, (and it plentiful) anybody can get a 3800+ to 2.2. Really 2.4 is easy, but I am trying to be a pessimist. Just get a 3800+, and a decent mobo, and go for it. Mine is the nforce4 MSI Neo4-F and it was like $80, so they don't have to be exspensive. and that Geil memory I am using is crap today. Most any crucial value memory or OCZ PC 3200 will be fine. Go for it. Everybody here is behind you.

Oh, make sure you have like an XP90 ($30) for cooling to be sure this will work good. OEM is OK stock, but is a little hot when you OC.

And here are the quick rules. Set LDT to 4x (it says 5x, not sure the label) set vcore to 1.45, set divider to 166 mhz, set memory to 240 for starters and you are there. Once stable crank memory to 250-255. Thats how simple for a mild OC.

 

[AkumaX]

don't worry mark/duvie, i appreciate all your hard work

in my case, i only have a 12.5% o/c, running on one of the best aircooling heatsinks (open case), with a vcore of 1.25v (idle), 1.18v-1.2v (load) and my temps are still anywhere between 53c and 76c.

i'm keeping this in my room cuz it's starting to get cold...

this pic's for you's. cheers!

 

[josh609]

THanks for your results guys, I appreciate your hard work!

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: AkumaX
don't worry mark/duvie, i appreciate all your hard work

in my case, i only have a 12.5% o/c, running on one of the best aircooling heatsinks (open case), with a vcore of 1.25v (idle), 1.18v-1.2v (load) and my temps are still anywhere between 53c and 76c.

i'm keeping this in my room cuz it's starting to get cold...

this pic's for you's. cheers!

Thats your rig !??!! Cool (pun intended)

 

[AkumaX]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: AkumaX
don't worry mark/duvie, i appreciate all your hard work

in my case, i only have a 12.5% o/c, running on one of the best aircooling heatsinks (open case), with a vcore of 1.25v (idle), 1.18v-1.2v (load) and my temps are still anywhere between 53c and 76c.

i'm keeping this in my room cuz it's starting to get cold...

this pic's for you's. cheers!

Thats your rig !??!! Cool (pun intended)

nah man, its 'hot'.

oh yeah, so there's 4 fans in the system:
one in psu (silent seasonic), inaudible
one big typhoon (it's really not 16dBa, but i put it at 1200rpm, so it's probably around 20dba)
one on 9800 (i got one of those heatpipe vga coolers, and i think the fan's less than 20dba or 19dba)
and one on the hdd (panaflo, should be less than 20dba also)

so in essense, i did get a quiet system, but at the 'sacrifice' of high temps

(must kill self for lameness)

 

[stevty2889]

Well now I have given in to tempatation, and want to see how bad it is myself. I am getting a Pentium-D 830 for $160, plus the Asrock motherboard that supports both DDR, DDR2, and PCIe and AGP. That way I can "upgrade" my current P4@3.45ghz to the dual core for $220, and keep my memory and AGP video card. I have never been a fan of using VIA chipsets with Intel chips, but it was the only possible cost effective solution in this case. Should have everything by next weekend so I'll see how it turns out. My current single core P4 runs at 3.45ghz with load temps of about 62c.

 

[AkumaX]

Originally posted by: stevty2889
Well now I have given in to tempatation, and want to see how bad it is myself. I am getting a Pentium-D 830 for $160, plus the Asrock motherboard that supports both DDR, DDR2, and PCIe and AGP. That way I can "upgrade" my current P4@3.45ghz to the dual core for $220, and keep my memory and AGP video card. I have never been a fan of using VIA chipsets with Intel chips, but it was the only possible cost effective solution in this case. Should have everything by next weekend so I'll see how it turns out. My current single core P4 runs at 3.45ghz with load temps of about 62c.

stevty2889, don't expect a high o/c since there's no vcore adjust on this motherboard. i only got a 12% o/c (225 fsb). it does run fantastically stable though, although it probably is a good mix of a solid board and a big typhoon for cooling

 

[Mloot]

Hey, Mark, I also appreciate the work you and Duvie have done. I used to have a dual Opty-246, which I had to sell because of financial hardships. I'm currently running a 3.0C@3.3, and I've been eyeing the 3800+ pretty hard. I'm just having a hard time justifying the cost of the upgrade, and the 820's look pretty good, initially, since you can score cheap ones from Ebay. I definitely don't want the kind of heater your PD has turned out to be, so I'll just have to save up a little longer for an X2. Thanks again.

 

[OhNoPoPo]

Anywhere still selling the Toledo cores?

 

[Markfw]

I think they are mostly the toledo cores everywhere.

 

[Markfw]

Update: I came home today and for the first time my computer room was up to 80F with the window open with outside temp=~60f. And the 820 was locked up hard. So I downed the vcore and the OC to 1.45 and 3430. The I had to fire up my big house fan. When I say this thing is a heater I MEAN IT ! I don't know where to go from here, I may have to turn it off. (it was a dedicated F@H box)

Stay tuned.

 

[stevty2889]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Update: I came home today and for the first time my computer room was up to 80F with the window open with outside temp=~60f. And the 820 was locked up hard. So I downed the vcore and the OC to 1.45 and 3430. The I had to fire up my big house fan. When I say this thing is a heater I MEAN IT ! I don't know where to go from here, I may have to turn it off. (it was a dedicated F@H box)

Stay tuned.

Hmm, I really don't think heat is the reason for your lockups. I had all kinds of heat problems with my 3.4ghz P4, even throttling itself to death at stock with temps in the 73c range, or overclocked, it didn't cause it to lock up.

 

[Duvie]

I agree...the lockups are power releatd trust me...throttling would have kept it stable....Or it would have hit the mobo shutdown temp of 70c and just rebooted....


I have officially stopped all attempts to get a P-D.....I have seen it first hand and know the amount of money I would hav eto throw into it to keep it cool to satisfy my getting one, and still likely could not beat my current X2....

Instead I want to get a 3800+ X2 and try for more of an OC and perhaps even get a high Amp 12v PSU (single) to test some theories out...

 

[Markfw]

So you think a fortron 450 is not good enough with virtually NO video card ???? God this thing puts out a lot of heat and sucks more power than I thought !!!!

BTW, my PC4800 is due Thursday for my 3800+ to run 1:1 and hopefully a higher OC, and 1 gog total memory.

Edit, wait, I went for two days with more stuff running and no problems with stability at 3.5,1.475 vcore. But then it gets hot, locks up, and you says its power ??? What am I missing (although it does sound logical based on my 3800+ ventures....)