X1900 is not for me what else will they have?

[nitromullet]

That's possible, but that doesn't mean that the mid range cards will be worth a damn... The best bet for higher performing, mid-range priced cards has generally been to go with a high end part from the previous generation. Right now, your best bet (and is exactly in your price range) is the GeForce 6800GS. Check out Anandtech's latest buying guide, they agree with me. Want more proof? Check out rage3d's review of the 6800GS, and see how nicely it buries ATI's mid-range mid-range X1600XT...

http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/video/nvidia6800gs/

 

[LungExpansion]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: LungExpansion
Thanks Matthias99 so the talk of X1600, X1700 cards are just rumors?

No; but those cards will be based on R520 (at least the X1600s; I don't even know if X1700s have been announced).

Let me see if I get this right.
X800/X850 = First Generation 90nm R480 core which had the problem initially.
X1600 = R520 Second Generation 90nm taped out first time.
X1700 = Rumor
x1900 = R580 I assume also second generation 90nm.

I guess I am interested in the X1600 then and where it falls into the scope of things.

 

[LungExpansion]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
That's possible, but that doesn't mean that the mid range cards will be worth a damn... The best bet for higher performing, mid-range priced cards has generally been to go with a high end part from the previous generation. Right now, your best bet (and is exactly in your price range) is the GeForce 6800GS. Check out Anandtech's latest buying guide, they agree with me. Want more proof? Check out rage3d's review of the 6800GS, and see how nicely it buries ATI's mid-range mid-range X1600XT...

http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/video/nvidia6800gs/

Thanks nitromullet
After skimming through that I would be looking at the 6800GS instead of the X1600.

I will wait till the end of the month and see if there is a X1700 and how that compares to the 6800GS otherwise ATI will have a gap in their product line.

Again nothing against the R480/X800/X850 but I dont believe in ATI first gen 90nm chips. Call me crazy but too many problems and a 3 month lifespan I would rather go with the NVIDIA chip instead if I had to.

Thanks Everyone.

 

[CKXP]

Originally posted by: LungExpansion

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: LungExpansion
Thanks Matthias99 so the talk of X1600, X1700 cards are just rumors?

No; but those cards will be based on R520 (at least the X1600s; I don't even know if X1700s have been announced).

Let me see if I get this right.
X800/X850 = First Generation 90nm R480 core which had the problem initially.
X1600 = R520 Second Generation 90nm taped out first time.
X1700 = Rumor
x1900 = R580 I assume also second generation 90nm.

I guess I am interested in the X1600 then and where it falls into the scope of things.

there are better cards than the x1600xt within a similar price bracket http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2556

The X1600 XT fairly consistently performs much worse than the 6800 GT and a little better than the 6600 GT.

a 6800gs or x800gto2 would be a far better choice.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: LungExpansion
Ok my bad I put R480 when I should have put R520 and R520 where I should have put R580. I think everyone knows what I am asking without getting offensive about a chip number.

Usually manufacturers keep previous generations but ATI is telling me they dont want the R520 either by replacing the entire lineup with R580. That tells me the R580 is significantly a better chip than R520. Which also signals to me that the R520 still has manufacturing issues.

nothing at all wrong with r520 - now . . . again, ATI had problems with the tape out - it tooks MONTHS to figure it out . . . the r580 is on schedule . . . that's all.

Do you have PCIe or AGP?

That makes a big difference. . . . currently the "BEST"/fastest AGP card is the x850xt/PE . . . and you can get the x850xt for $200 after $50 MIR . . . anything else is slower or else you will have to wait to see what the x1700xt brings.

the x1600xt is a DISAPPOINTMENT. . . that's WHY we are waiting for the suposedly reworked x1700xt in AGP.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: LungExpansion
Again nothing against the R480/X800/X850 but I dont believe in ATI first gen 90nm chips. Call me crazy but too many problems and a 3 month lifespan I would rather go with the NVIDIA chip instead if I had to.

What problems? Not first generation. Get your chipsets and card models correct, that will probably resolve some of your confusion/biases.

 

[VIAN]

Originally posted by: LungExpansion

Originally posted by: zizo
there was a 199$ deal for x850xt.

That seems good and all but there must be a reason ATI is abandoning that with a fresh new lineup.

Im leery of the short lifespan of the r480 is it?

It wasn't a short lifespan. Those were refreshes and they lived out their time. They just couldn't get enough of them to the market. The X850XT was the most powerful card last generation. They're abandoning them for a fresh new lineup to make money.

A High end card from the last generation is similarly powerful to a midrange card in the new generation. Although, if you wait for ATI's new lineup, you'll get SM3 support as well, which would be a little nice. I doubt it would have enough power to use it extensively though.

Originally posted by: LungExpansion
Its lifespan is like 3 months. They also had numerous problems with manufacturing the chip as it required several tap outs to get it working right. Which makes me also wonder what else the chip was supposed to do that it just doesnt. Or what incompatibility issues might arrise because of the problems that surrounded this chip.

You're getting confused here. The X850XT is the R480, which is last generation. The X1800XT is the R520, the one with the 3 month lifespan. The problems manufactuering the chip was due to 3rd party design, which they caught in time for the R580. The only reason ATI is releasing the R580 so soon after the R520 is to get back on release schedule. It doesn't mean the R520 is a rush job or didn't live up to expectations.

Originally posted by: LungExpansion
I will wait till the end of the month and see if there is a X1700 and how that compares to the 6800GS otherwise ATI will have a gap in their product line.

Again nothing against the R480/X800/X850 but I dont believe in ATI first gen 90nm chips. Call me crazy but too many problems and a 3 month lifespan I would rather go with the NVIDIA chip instead if I had to.

Thanks Everyone.

Don't you mean R520/X1800 (don't forget that '1') here.
I don't believe that they had a problem with them. They were having low yields in manufacturing due to third party design. The ones that were released are good. And again the 3month lifespan has nothing to do with the quality of the chip. It's ATI getting back on schedule.

And they are replacing the lineup, but ATI always replaces the lineup at refresh time. And refresh time is here. Not like they had much of a lineup for the R520 due to the manufacturing issues. Only High end cards were released, not midrange.

But it's good for you to wait and see if a X1700 XT is coming out, and if it is truly a midrange card, unlike the X1600 XT, which is a low end card. If not, a X850 XT would be more powerful than a 6800GS if you can find it for 200 bucks. Otherwise, get the GS.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: LungExpansion
Thanks nitromullet
After skimming through that I would be looking at the 6800GS instead of the X1600.

I will wait till the end of the month and see if there is a X1700 and how that compares to the 6800GS otherwise ATI will have a gap in their product line.

Again nothing against the R480/X800/X850 but I dont believe in ATI first gen 90nm chips. Call me crazy but too many problems and a 3 month lifespan I would rather go with the NVIDIA chip instead if I had to.

Thanks Everyone.

np, glad to see you looking at all the options.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: LungExpansion

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: LungExpansion
Thanks Matthias99 so the talk of X1600, X1700 cards are just rumors?

No; but those cards will be based on R520 (at least the X1600s; I don't even know if X1700s have been announced).

Let me see if I get this right.
X800/X850 = First Generation 90nm R480 core which had the problem initially.
X1600 = R520 Second Generation 90nm taped out first time.
X1700 = Rumor
x1900 = R580 I assume also second generation 90nm.

I guess I am interested in the X1600 then and where it falls into the scope of things.

Um... let me try. You really need to do some more research before you get so worked up about different processes, since you don't seem to even know which cards used which manufacturing process.

X300/X600/X700/X800/X850 = LAST generation (R4XX). 130nm low-k silicon process (NOT 90nm, although I think maybe one of the mobile chips used 90nm). No problems.

X1300/X1600/X1800 = CURRENT generation (R520). First full line of 90nm cores from ATI. Manufacturing problems delayed card launches from ~May until ~November. Problems have supposedly all been resolved.

X1900 = REFRESH of R520 (ie, R580). Currently, three high-end cards have been announced (same or higher performance as X1800s), but nothing else. Should be more information in a few weeks, hopefully with cards on shelves by the end of January. Theoretically, this is "second-generation" 90nm.

X1700 = Doesn't exist yet, AFAIK. There will probably be one eventually to replace the X1600s, but no info at this time.

In terms of performance, if you're looking at the 6800GS, the closest ATI cards are probably the X800XL/X850Pro, with the X800XT and X850XT outgunning it somewhat. The X1600 is probably a little slower, although I don't know about the X1600XT (and presumably any upcoming X1700 would be faster).

 

[LungExpansion]

Again Thanks for the update lessons.

I was under the impression the R580 was going to cover the entire line not just the top end. I figured it would have come out with lower ones being less pipes/lower clocks but all chips would be derived from the R580 chips and that the R520 (90nm first gen) was being abandoned. So its the R520 I have doubts about as far as the product.

When I buy a video card I loosly follow what else comes out until I need a new video card this explains why I am a newb again and got all my numbers and manufacturing mixed. My entire PC is feeling dated its an Athlon XP Barton overclocked to 3300+ levels with 512megs ram and a Radeon 9500 softmodded to 9700 with an overclock shy of the pro model. Its been great but its time to upgrade and I have my eyes on a dual core 2 gig config that should last me until quad cores come out. I want to be able to run MS Vista 64 and a few VM's on it. I will be making the old machine a dedicated Media server when the new rig is built.

I have already caused enough confusion so I will just keep my mouth shut until the end of January.