X1800XL Not Dogs !

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
yeah, i need to see some more OCing results

I don't know. OCing is always YMMV and I don't really consider OCability as indicative of chip value. You have to void your warranty, you might wreck the card, etc etc..

Saying a card has value due to OCing is weak, performance has to be there at stock. The cards you're comparing it to can be OCd as well.

6800GT was an amazing value because of its OC abilities, basically an Ultra for $100 less.

But some how that doesnt apply here, hypocritical approach as always. :roll:

I cannot recall when I've seen Rollo advocate or promote overclocking your video card, but he should realize that there are a ton of gamers who will risk it in order to improve performance of their card to the next level.

But then I think I remember him mentioning the success of the GTX being able to hit 490+, perhaps this is just because it is a manufacturer's overclock. However if all (or most) XLs can hit XT speeds with a simple voltage boost and more robust cooling, then I'd think we would see similar manufacturer overclocks for the ATI side as well.

I'll end with another point, and that point is that overclocking/modding/tweaking is a huge factor. Proof? Just look at the wild success of the X800GTO2. Selling like hot cakes becuase its a stock XL performer that is an XT in disguise. If its the same case for the X18XL then there's little reason other than its steep price that it shouldn't sell well, the GTO2 @ $200 is a steal.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: MemberSince97

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
yeah, i need to see some more OCing results

I don't know. OCing is always YMMV and I don't really consider OCability as indicative of chip value. You have to void your warranty, you might wreck the card, etc etc..

Saying a card has value due to OCing is weak, performance has to be there at stock. The cards you're comparing it to can be OCd as well.

Yes I kinda agree with you Rollo,but why would they put 1.4 ns memory on board and clock it @ 1000

It's not likely they did as a secret message to OCers. I've e-mailed ATI abou this subject before, they responded "We clock our products at the speed they are meant to be run at. Any variance or modification constitutes voiding your warranty."

I don't have anything against OCing, I have something against OCing/modding, and then returning as "defective" when the part fails. Most people can't afford to do anything but that.

 

[Keysplayr]

Wow Awesome o/c. Before I go and demolish the other thread, I would like to hear from some 1800XL owners in here about the o/c'ing capability. Then we can put that INQ. article to rest.

One reason is this comment from Samsa:

"Yes please remember that my cards are review samples. The cards available for end-users might have different configurations (especially memory chips)."

It is possible that ATI sent an XL sample to Samsa with an XT core. We need to see some o/c's from our people here.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
yeah, i need to see some more OCing results

I don't know. OCing is always YMMV and I don't really consider OCability as indicative of chip value. You have to void your warranty, you might wreck the card, etc etc..

Saying a card has value due to OCing is weak, performance has to be there at stock. The cards you're comparing it to can be OCd as well.

6800GT was an amazing value because of its OC abilities, basically an Ultra for $100 less.

But some how that doesnt apply here, hypocritical approach as always. :roll:

I cannot recall when I've seen Rollo advocate or promote overclocking your video card, but he should realize that there are a ton of gamers who will risk it in order to improve performance of their card to the next level.

But then I think I remember him mentioning the success of the GTX being able to hit 490+, perhaps this is just because it is a manufacturer's overclock. However if all (or most) XLs can hit XT speeds with a simple voltage boost and more robust cooling, then I'd think we would see similar manufacturer overclocks for the ATI side as well.

I'll end with another point, and that point is that overclocking/modding/tweaking is a huge factor. Proof? Just look at the wild success of the X800GTO2. Selling like hot cakes becuase its a stock XL performer that is an XT in disguise. If its the same case for the X18XL then there's little reason other than its steep price that it shouldn't sell well, the GTO2 @ $200 is a steal.

well said...i think it's probably worth adding to that that the risk associated with overclocking is tiny if done by the book and sensibly...at least in my experience both personally and on the forums...

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: crazydingo
6800GT was an amazing value because of its OC abilities, basically an Ultra for $100 less.

No the 6800GT was an amazing value because it offered 90% of the Ultras performance at 75% of the price, and better performance than it's direct competitor, the X800Pro.

But some how that doesnt apply here, hypocritical approach as always. :roll:

My views on this subject are consistent, as a search of my posts will tell you. "Hypocritical" means saying one thing while doing another. (basically) I don't OC the 6800GTs in my sons box, or the 7800GTXs in my own. You can find posts wherein I say the small gains of OCing them are in no way worth the risk of the expensive hardware.
That is called being "consistent".

 

[nRollo]

I don't have anything against manufacturer OCs and never have.

I don't have anything against end user OCs if the risk is assumed by the person voiding their warranty.

I do think it's foolish to OC $400-$500 cards, especially with volt mods, because the trivial gains aren't worth having to eat $400-$500 if you fry the card, or look in the mirror at a thief the rest of your life if you have to tell the maker or vendor you didn't voltmod the card to steal another one from honest people who sold you a card only guaranteed to last the warranted period at manufacturer spec, with the original HSF.

Please don't post "what about OCing utilities?" in response to this if you're considering it. The ones I's seen tell you you're voiding you're warranty before they let you do it.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Rollo
It's not likely they did as a secret message to OCers. I've e-mailed ATI abou this subject before, they responded "We clock our products at the speed they are meant to be run at. Any variance or modification constitutes voiding your warranty."

I don't have anything against OCing, I have something against OCing/modding, and then returning as "defective" when the part fails. Most people can't afford to do anything but that.

Most people don't fry out their video cards when overclocking, either! As long as you do it in moderation, there should be no worries about frying a card.

I mean, a little common sense goes a long way.

Today's GPU's run idle/load speed at ridiculously high temperatures, and stock cooling is whatever the company can get produced as cheaply as possible and still work: my X850XT PE runs up to 72C full load on stock cooling (and the XT has pretty decent cooling), and my 6600GT loaded above 80C.

Right away you can tell that if you would be to get better cooling, you could overclock them well above stock speed and still run cooler temperatures than stock.

Back when I had an X800 Pro last year, I took it from stock 475/450 MHz (on stock cooling) to 540/540 (on an ATI Silencer 4), and ran it comfortably @ 525/525 on with load temps 20C down from stock. And let me tell you the RAM was much cooler w/ the silencer's back plate then smouldering in the open air at stock speed on stock cooling.

Overclocking is a hobby and I don't think it's fair that you can just take a crap on all of our hobbies. Although you don't find 'value' in overclocking, many of us do, to the point that we actually prefer a card with lower clocks and lots of o/c headroom. It makes us feel like we've accomplished something when we take our 3000+ chips and run them over 2.5 Ghz .

Regarding volt mods: I think they're risky too so I don't do them. Taking the voltage out of spec can have unforseen consequences, and I personally don't want to bother with the risk or modding around with my card. But if other people want to try it, more power to them.

Some people are actually better off then you Rollo, and they can afford to fry a 7800GTX in their hobby.

Your little 'look at yourself in the mirror as a thief' spiel is getting old by the way - just let it go! Do you think ATI and Nvidia despise it when people overclock their cards? For god's sakes man, a big part of the reason people buy 'enthusiast' parts is to overclock - it's why 3dmark exists and why Futuremark has such a large database! Overclocking is basically a giant advertisement for the company, and when Oppainter or whomever gets some ludicriously high score with his latest/greatest GPU, all the little kiddies get their parents to buy them expensive cards so they can copy him.

What's the latest fad on AT video? the X800GTO2. Why? Because it's an overclockable/pipe unlockable card. Just like the 6800nu, the 9800SE, the famous 9500 > 9700 Pro, etc.

Why would ATI even bother to release a card like the X800GTO2 in the first place? Maybe you need to think about that question and reconsider your dogmatic attitude towards overclocking.

Instead of taking a closed-minded 'overclocking is bad and you will go to Hades because you are a thief' (like those laughable 'is overclocking a sin' threads), consider the fact that both ATI and Nvidia, unless they are complete morons, allow for the fact that their cards will be overclocked by many. Heck some companies are even starting to sanction overclocking as long as you play by their rules. Look at OCZ, who now says it's ok to overclock their RAM as long as you stay below such-and-such voltage.

 

[Ackmed]

Not true. Overclocking does not void all warranties. Dont make an incorrect blanket statement. 'Overclocking voids some warranties', would be better, and more accurate.

On topic, thats good news for 1800XL owners.

So now we've seen them, and bought at Frys 2 days after they were launched, and seem to have dispelled the evil rumor of them not being able to overclock, much if at all...some people are getting their legs cut out from under them.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Not true. Overclocking does not void all warranties. Dont make an incorrect blanket statement. 'Overclocking voids some warranties', would be better, and more accurate.

On topic, thats good news for 1800XL owners.

So now we've seen them, and bought at Frys 2 days after they were launched, and seem to have dispelled the evil rumor of them not being able to overclock, much if at all...some people are getting their legs cut out from under them.

So now we've seen ...... one...... review...... sample.....

Quote from Samsa:
"Yes please remember that my cards are review samples. The cards available for end-users might have different configurations (especially memory chips)."

The light is not green yet bud.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Not true. Overclocking does not void all warranties. Dont make an incorrect blanket statement. 'Overclocking voids some warranties', would be better, and more accurate.

:roll:
If there was one warranty it didn't void, on a card only available in Nepal, you would post this. OCing voids over 90% of warranties, knowing some company it doesn't is not justification of your misleading statement.

On topic, thats good news for 1800XL owners.

How could speaking about OCing be any more OT when the original post is two sentences about OCing? :roll:

So now we've seen them, and bought at Frys 2 days after they were launched, and seem to have dispelled the evil rumor of them not being able to overclock, much if at all...some people are getting their legs cut out from under them.

Yeah, I'm sure fans of 7800GTX are just crushed to know that people can buy much slower X1800XLs for more money than 7800GTXs. The guys at nVidia are probably hopping from foot to foot yelling "What do we do? What do we do?".

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


So now we've seen ...... one...... review...... sample.....

Quote from Samsa:
"Yes please remember that my cards are review samples. The cards available for end-users might have different configurations (especially memory chips)."

The light is not green yet bud.

What? I was saying that we've seen they bought at Frys. This is a fact. It in a green light for those who want to buy one.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


So now we've seen ...... one...... review...... sample.....

Quote from Samsa:
"Yes please remember that my cards are review samples. The cards available for end-users might have different configurations (especially memory chips)."

The light is not green yet bud.

What? I was saying that we've seen they bought at Frys. This is a fact. It in a green light for those who want to buy one.

Selective memory? You also said this: "and seem to have dispelled the evil rumor of them not being able to overclock, much if at all...some people are getting their legs cut out from under them."

Yes, they are available at a few vendors already, Newegg, Fry's, Monarch. There is a green light to buy them certainly, but jury is still out on the evil rumor you suggest.

EDIT: Props to ATI for availability on the XL. 2 days after lauch is just fine.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Most people don't fry out their video cards when overclocking, either! As long as you do it in moderation, there should be no worries about frying a card.......Look at OCZ, who now says it's ok to overclock their RAM as long as you stay below such-and-such voltage.

1. No one is "better off" than me. (haha- just kidding)
2. I'm entitled to my opinion about OCing, and this thread is about OCing
3. I pretty clearly state I don't care who OCs if they assume the risk in the post you're replying to? You know, where I say

I don't have anything against end user OCs if the risk is assumed by the person voiding their warranty.

By saying "I don't have anything against" my meaning is that I have "no problem", "no adverse opinion", "no dislike"- does that help?

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Selective memory? You also said this: "and seem to have dispelled the evil rumor of them not being able to overclock, much if at all...some people are getting their legs cut out from under them."

Yes, they are available at a few vendors already, Newegg, Fry's, Monarch. There is a green light to buy them certainly, but jury is still out on the evil rumor you suggest.

EDIT: Props to ATI for availability on the XL. 2 days after lauch is just fine.

Notice I said, *seems to have*, meaning nothing is conclusive. If I ment that his test had dispelled the rumor, I would have said so. As we all know, overclocking varies. There is a user at HardOCP who bought a card at Frys, and has it up to 575/550, and was limited to that number by CCC. It wouldnt let him go any higher. So he was limited by software, and he had the stock cooler on. Thats with a retail card, bought at Frys. No it doesnt mean all cards will overclock, but it sure looks like they will do a lot better than early rumors that it would be hard pressed to break 500Mhz. Which is good news for all, except those who dont wish any good for ATi.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Selective memory? You also said this: "and seem to have dispelled the evil rumor of them not being able to overclock, much if at all...some people are getting their legs cut out from under them."

Yes, they are available at a few vendors already, Newegg, Fry's, Monarch. There is a green light to buy them certainly, but jury is still out on the evil rumor you suggest.

EDIT: Props to ATI for availability on the XL. 2 days after lauch is just fine.

Notice I said, *seems to have*, meaning nothing is conclusive. If I ment that his test had dispelled the rumor, I would have said so. As we all know, overclocking varies. There is a user at HardOCP who bought a card at Frys, and has it up to 575/650, and was limited to that number by CCC. It wouldnt let him go any higher. So he was limited by software, and he had the stock cooler on. Thats with a retail card, bought at Frys. No it doesnt mean all cards will overclock, but it sure looks like they will do a lot better than early rumors that it would be hard pressed to break 500Mhz. Which is good news for all, except those who dont wish any good for ATi.

It's cool and I understand. I just want real world o/c testing from our guys and gals here before we condemn the rumor. Thats all.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: MX2times

Originally posted by: Therk
^ I'm petty sure that a stock 3dmark05 XT score would beat a 7800 GTX

Thats great because I play 3DMark05 all day long

i wish people would stop saying this and expecting a round of applause at how clever, original and witty they are. Like it or not 3dmark05 scores are a pretty good general idea of how a card will perform, and there are quick and easy to do...

My 7800GT gets between 7300 and ~8k 3d marks (05) depending on driver settings.
3D Mark scores alone mean nothing, unless you know exactly what everything is set at (all driver settings high quality/optimisations off vs everything on low with optimisations, no AA or AF on at all).

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Duvie
They will only get better, and so will the price in time...maybe something more reasonable compared to a 7800GT....

I am going to build another box and I want an ATi card in that one...I may wait and see if they come out with a AIW card...

Here's some supposed "spy" shots of the AIW X1800XL.

Link

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Duvie
They will only get better, and so will the price in time...maybe something more reasonable compared to a 7800GT....

I am going to build another box and I want an ATi card in that one...I may wait and see if they come out with a AIW card...

Here's some supposed "spy" shots of the AIW X1800XL.

Link

That car looks at a precariously bad angle because of those drives...

 

[Duvie]

Using rivatuner or something to raise clock may not void all warranties, but most would lie anyways that they were even ocing if the card died form that type of use....The fact is the ones I have seen them discuss so far would have. The minute you crack the retail heatsink off to put some AS on it, it is all over. The moment you hack the bios is another instant void of warranty....

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Drayvn

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Duvie
They will only get better, and so will the price in time...maybe something more reasonable compared to a 7800GT....

I am going to build another box and I want an ATi card in that one...I may wait and see if they come out with a AIW card...

Here's some supposed "spy" shots of the AIW X1800XL.

Link

That car looks at a precariously bad angle because of those drives...

Yes, it certainly does. The back of the card is hard against that optical drive, look below at the connector, the cards PCB is really bent to where the HS is over the back of the next connector!!