X-25M Gen 2 and Windows 7 and AHCI and TRIM

[SlingXShot]

Okay.. I have been doing a lot of research on X-25M Gen 2. I purchased it Friday and it should be coming tomorrow.

As far as I know. This drive works/and will work the best in Windows 7.
I have also read that the Intel drivers don't support TRIM what so ever, and accordion to Anand to get TRIM is to use Microsoft driver in non RAID mode.

However, I haven't read anywhere where in windows it will say that "TRIM" is enabled? Anyone knows how I am going to verify this?

Also there is a lot of talk about using AHCI mode to improve SSD performance. And someone mentions that in order to get TRIM you need to use AHCI mode.

So does that mean I have to go into the BIOS change to AHCI and try that SATA port with AHCI enabled? And possibly, windows won't boot because it doesn't understand it, will need to do repair or install fresh.

These are a lot of unknowns. Hopefully someone can fill me in.

Thanks!

 

[CurseTheSky]

I'm certainly not an expert, so don't take my word as law, but here's how I understand it:

+ AHCI mode will net you the best performance.
+ ACHI mode is needed for the TRIM command.
+ The TRIM command is issued by the operating system, and will only be available for Windows 7 (not for Xp or Vista).
+ TRIM will help to return a "used" SSD, which degrades over time, to "like new" performance.
+ Intel SSDs do not currently support TRIM, but they will be releasing firmware sometime around the release of Windows 7 which will add support.
+ Intel may also release a program that allows users to perform garbage collection themselves, which will improve "used" performance (and work under Xp and Vista).
+ The TRIM command will not be able to be passed through current RAID controllers, so it will not work in RAID (for now).

 

[SlingXShot]

So two months to go .... I wonder what kind of performance increases we will get...

 

[linster]

There won't be a performance increase from a brand new drive. TRIM eliminates the performance degradation resulting from a "used" SSD. It will restore the preformance to the level of a "new" SSD or somewhere close to it.

 

[jdjbuffalo]

Originally posted by: CurseTheSky
I'm certainly not an expert, so don't take my word as law, but here's how I understand it:

+ AHCI mode will net you the best performance.
+ ACHI mode is needed for the TRIM command.
+ The TRIM command is issued by the operating system, and will only be available for Windows 7 (not for Xp or Vista).
+ TRIM will help to return a "used" SSD, which degrades over time, to "like new" performance.
+ Intel SSDs do not currently support TRIM, but they will be releasing firmware sometime around the release of Windows 7 which will add support.
+ Intel may also release a program that allows users to perform garbage collection themselves, which will improve "used" performance (and work under Xp and Vista).
+ The TRIM command will not be able to be passed through current RAID controllers, so it will not work in RAID (for now).

All are correct except for:

+ Intel SSDs do not currently support TRIM, but they will be releasing firmware sometime around the release of Windows 7 which will add support.

The firmware already supports TRIM. The problem is the Intel drivers are not ready yet but they will be before the end of the year. In the mean time, you can use the built-in Windows 7 drivers.

 

[taltamir]

The firmware already supports TRIM. The problem is the Intel drivers are not ready yet but they will be before the end of the year. In the mean time, you can use the built-in Windows 7 drivers.

so you are saying it is supported but is disabled and will be enabled later in a firmware upgrade? how is that a relevant correction? this is just mincing semantics.

The TRIM command will not be able to be passed through current RAID controllers, so it will not work in RAID (for now).

And for the foreseeable future... also don't expect existing raid controllers to add the function, in a few years you could probably buy a trim capable raid controller.

+ Intel may also release a program that allows users to perform garbage collection themselves, which will improve "used" performance (and work under Xp and Vista).

Garbage collection does not use programs, it is a controller only thing... there is rumors that intel may release a manual trim tool for XP and vista, and it should work as well as regular trim, only you have to manually run it every few weeks instead of it occurring without user interference.

 

[ilkhan]

its enabled, but you need to be using the default win7 drivers, as the intel storage matrix driver (yeah, the official from intel one) doesn't allow trim, yet. My understanding of it anyway.

 

[jdjbuffalo]

Originally posted by: taltamir

The firmware already supports TRIM. The problem is the Intel drivers are not ready yet but they will be before the end of the year. In the mean time, you can use the built-in Windows 7 drivers.

so you are saying it is supported but is disabled and will be enabled later in a firmware upgrade? how is that a relevant correction? this is just mincing semantics.

No it's not just semantics. He can use the Intel G2 drive and get TRIM support as long as he uses the built-in Windows 7 drivers. He just can't use the optimized Intel drivers.

Also, read the quote I was replying to:

Intel SSDs do not currently support TRIM, but they will be releasing firmware sometime around the release of Windows 7 which will add support.

They aren't releasing a firmware update. The firmware already supports TRIM. Therefore the drive already has TRIM support. The Intel drivers do not support TRIM at this time.

 

[imported_spike99]

This may be a silly question, but can someone clarify this for me:

Yes, TRIM will return a "used" SSD, which degrades over time, to "like new" performance.

But is TRIM really needed for Intel G2 ? According to Anands review, there isn't much difference between the new & used performances for Intel G2. TRIM seems to be most useful for other SSD's like Indilinx...

Unless I'm missing something... if there isn't much difference between new & used performances for Intel G2... does Intel G2 really need TRIM ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jdjbuffalo]

spike99.

You are correct that the G2 doesn't degrade as bad as the G1. But it's still useful to have TRIM to keep the drive running at peek efficiency. Here is the quote from the article:

Something definitely changed with the way the G2 handles fragmentation, it doesn't deal with it as elegantly as the G1 did. I don't believe this is a step backwards though, Intel is clearly counting on TRIM to keep the drive from ever getting to the point that the G1 could get to. The tradeoff is most definitely performance and probably responsible for the G2's ability to maintain very high random write speeds even while used. I should mention that even without TRIM it's unlikely that the G2 will get to this performance state where it's actually slower than the G1; the test just helps to highlight that there are significant differences between the drives.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: jdjbuffalo

Originally posted by: taltamir

The firmware already supports TRIM. The problem is the Intel drivers are not ready yet but they will be before the end of the year. In the mean time, you can use the built-in Windows 7 drivers.

so you are saying it is supported but is disabled and will be enabled later in a firmware upgrade? how is that a relevant correction? this is just mincing semantics.

No it's not just semantics. He can use the Intel G2 drive and get TRIM support as long as he uses the built-in Windows 7 drivers. He just can't use the optimized Intel drivers.

Also, read the quote I was replying to:

Intel SSDs do not currently support TRIM, but they will be releasing firmware sometime around the release of Windows 7 which will add support.

They aren't releasing a firmware update. The firmware already supports TRIM. Therefore the drive already has TRIM support. The Intel drivers do not support TRIM at this time.

ok, this is a completely different thing... my understanding was that they will release a firmware update... but i could be wrong.

 

[imported_spike99]

Originally posted by: jdjbuffalo
spike99.

You are correct that the G2 doesn't degrade as bad as the G1. But it's still useful to have TRIM to keep the drive running at peek efficiency. Here is the quote from the article:

Something definitely changed with the way the G2 handles fragmentation, it doesn't deal with it as elegantly as the G1 did. I don't believe this is a step backwards though, Intel is clearly counting on TRIM to keep the drive from ever getting to the point that the G1 could get to. The tradeoff is most definitely performance and probably responsible for the G2's ability to maintain very high random write speeds even while used. I should mention that even without TRIM it's unlikely that the G2 will get to this performance state where it's actually slower than the G1; the test just helps to highlight that there are significant differences between the drives.

OK... Thanks.

 

[coolVariable]

Don't forget that it is essentially impossible to get AHCI under Vista/Win7 with AMD chipsets, unless you go with the Microsoft drivers which are shown to create a 10% - 20% performance hit.