WW2 question: how was Stalin better than Hitler?

[rudeguy]

you know the user base of this forum is overwhelmingly american. the forum is also hosted and based in america.

when someone says "we", odds are he's referring to america, or in this case contextually, who america was aligned with at the time. (western powers)

Kinda figured my avatar would help. ..

 

[BladeVenom]

That is kind of like saying Russia should have stayed out of it, and been better friends with the Germans?

You need to study your history. Stalin was trying to be better friends with the Germans. He was secretly helping them. But Germany was planning to attack Russia, no matter what Stalin did.

While the US was publicly condemning Japan and had started an oil embargo against them. Japan would have preferred not to go the war with the US, but found US actions too antagonistic for their honor to accept.

 

[zinfamous]

You need to study your history. Stalin was trying to be better friends with the Germans. He was secretly helping them. But Germany was planning to attack Russia, no matter what Stalin did.

While the US was publicly condemning Japan and had started an oil embargo against them. Japan would have preferred not to go the war with the US, but found US actions too antagonistic for their honor to accept.

no Secrecy there, they were allied.

Well, there was the Molotov Ribbentrop pact, the details of which where secret, which divided eastern Europe--Basically Poland, the Baltics, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, etc into spheres of influence for Germany and Russia.

agreed upon by Stalin and Hitler.

Then Hitler decided to invade Russia.--that, is why Hitler lost the war.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You need to study your history. Stalin was trying to be better friends with the Germans. He was secretly helping them. But Germany was planning to attack Russia, no matter what Stalin did.

While the US was publicly condemning Japan and had started an oil embargo against them. Japan would have preferred not to go the war with the US, but found US actions too antagonistic for their honor to accept.

Japan found the US actions an impediment to getting the resources that she desired from the Asian-Pacific areas.

She also knew that the US naval forces would eventually be able to stop her.
She wanted time to swallow up the area and setup proper controls.

Nothing to do with honor; but a need for resources and to cut a deal on her terms when the US recovered.

 

[rommelrommel]

You need to study your history. Stalin was trying to be better friends with the Germans. He was secretly helping them. But Germany was planning to attack Russia, no matter what Stalin did.

While the US was publicly condemning Japan and had started an oil embargo against them. Japan would have preferred not to go the war with the US, but found US actions too antagonistic for their honor to accept.

Stalin was simply trying to modernize and arm so he could attack as well. By 1946 I'm pretty sure he would have. The Germans attacking when they did was insane, they really weren't prepared for such a long war over so much territory.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Stalin killed more people than Hitler did.

 

[Newbian]

Stalin killed more people than Hitler did.

To be fair hitler was in power for 12 years and was stopped because he lost the war and killed himself.

Stalin was in power for 32ish years and only stopped because he died.

So hitler had a higher k/d ratio per year.

 

[TallBill]

Stalin killed more people than Hitler did.

Chump change compared to how many innocents your god has murdered.

 

[rommelrommel]

Chump change compared to how many innocents your god has murdered.

I don't recall a lot of instances of God murdering anyone himself. Pretty sure it's well under the millions.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Chump change compared to how many innocents your god has murdered.

I don't recall a lot of instances of God murdering anyone himself. Pretty sure it's well under the millions.I don't recall a lot of instances of God murdering anyone himself. Pretty sure it's well under the millions.

1) The number of people killed in the name of God as a proportion to the population at the time.

If you wish to take the Old Testament at value; you have the Noah flood that had to have killed people; the bible implies that the flood was the work of God.

Then you also have the Red Sea swimming party and all the incidents prior to such.

 

[Newbian]

1) The number of people killed in the name of God as a proportion to the population at the time.

If you wish to take the Old Testament at value; you have the Noah flood that had to have killed people; the bible implies that the flood was the work of God.

Then you also have the Red Sea swimming party and all the incidents prior to such.

We all know it was global warming.

 

[IronWing]

On the topic of Stalin, meet a man with bigger balls than yours.

In 1937, Kavsadze and his ensemble travelled to Moscow, where they performed to great acclaim, winning an award. After the festival, a meeting was held in the Kremlin between the Politburo and all the festival's participants; this meeting gave rise to the following anecdote:
-
The story has it that the festival's participants – singers, dancers, artistic directors, etc. – were gathered in the Kremlin's Georgievsk Hall, where they were nervously awaiting Stalin's arrival. At last, the Man Himself entered the room – A "hurrah!" resounded, but Stalin lifted up his hand to bid those gathered be silent. He looked around the room at length, clearly searching for someone. Everyone became anxious: Whom was he looking for?? What should they do?! At last, Stalin asked in a low voice "if Sandro was there." Everyone breathed a sigh of relief, and the crowd parted to form a passage: at one end, Stalin; at the other, Sandro. It was of course protocol that the person meeting Stalin should walk up to him, but Sandro didn't move – a clear slight to the Great Man. They stared at each other for a few seconds, surrounded by the stunned crowd. Stalin then took the first step, followed by Sandro, and they met in the middle of the room, and embraced each other. "You have not changed," said Stalin, giving Sandro a pat on the back. Sandro remained silent, and patted Stalin on the back. "Indeed, you have not changed," repeated Stalin, patting Sandro on the back again. They conversed in low voices, Stalin asking Sandro if there was anything He could do for him? "Give me your pipe," said Sandro – The pipe has been a Kavsadze family heirloom ever since.

http://traditionalsounds.blogspot.com/2009/01/1-georgia-kavsadze-dynasty.html

 

[rommelrommel]

1) The number of people killed in the name of God as a proportion to the population at the time.

Yeah, especially if you count the flood. There just shouldn't have been that many people if it all started from 2 a few thousand years before right?

If you wish to take the Old Testament at value; you have the Noah flood that had to have killed people; the bible implies that the flood was the work of God.

Then you also have the Red Sea swimming party and all the incidents prior to such.

 

[BUTCH1]

The Russian army wouldn't have stopped until it reached the English Channel.
They had two and a half times the men, more tanks, more ground attack and low level fighters, more artillery than the US and Britain. They beat German armies twice as big as the one the Allies faced in the West.
The Russian equipment was also far better than the Allies. The T-34 was far superior to the Sherman and the Russians had more of them. Their ground attack aircraft were superior to the allies. Their low level fighters were at least the equals of the Allies.

Oh, and the US President would have been impeached if he tried to attack the Russians.

Yes, the T-34 was better than a Sherman but that's where it ends, the P-51 Mustang was the best fighter aircraft in the war, bar none, close second was the P-38. What you not taking into account is the Germans planned on sweeping through Russia before the onset of winter, when that stalled at Stalingrad the Russians eventually encircled the German 6th army and cut off any supply lines, they didn't even have clothing to deal with a particularly harsh Russian winter, a huge blunder, many froze to death or starved, those that surrendered didn't fare much better. If the Red army tried to advance to France they would have faced the same supply issues among many others as well.

 

[tynopik]

If the Red army tried to advance to France they would have faced the same supply issues among many others as well.

They would have frozen to death in France?

 

[tynopik]

1) The number of people killed in the name of God as a proportion to the population at the time.

The value of a life depends on how many other people there are?

I guess we should index all our prison sentences to world population, so if it doubles, what would have been a 10 year sentence for manslaughter will be cut to 5 since it's only half as bad.

 

[JTsyo]

The value of a life depends on how many other people there are?

I guess we should index all our prison sentences to world population, so if it doubles, what would have been a 10 year sentence for manslaughter will be cut to 5 since it's only half as bad.

Well one is murder, the other is genocide. Are there any known numbers for how many people Hitler and Stalin personally killed?

 

[tynopik]

Are there any known numbers for how many people Hitler and Stalin personally killed?

If you order a henchman to shoot someone, is that less bad than shooting someone yourself?

 

[Vaux]

Chump change compared to how many innocents your god has murdered.

Yep, and it was all part of his plan.

 

[K1052]

well....the deterance factor. Fact is, we had zero nuclear weapons at that point. None. We dropped our only two bombs in Japan. Even Truman did not know that at first, but was made aware of the situation shorty after Japan surrendered.

Of course, Stalin didn't know that, no one knew that. The threat was probably good enough, but turning them into glass would have been impossible.

IIRC there were two more plutonium cores available for deployment by mid August 1945. One of these was the infamous "Demon Core" that was finally expended at a test in mid 1946. The army estimated that there would be between 4 and 6 operational weapons in inventory by winter 1945 if production proceeded as scheduled.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Stalin was a madman who killed about 20 million of his own people.
Hitler was a madman who killed millions of people from all over Europe and North America.

Stalin gets more of a free pass, in the name of "national sovereignty"....

 

[Blintok]

The USSR was a semi-ally of Nazi Germany from Sept 1939 to June 1941. I find it funny that the Brits and French say ww2 was started by Germany. The British and French declared war on Germany, not the other way around.

ok you say, they declared war because Germany invaded Poland. They did this to save Poland. So why not declare war on USSR as well as they invaded Poland in mid September 1939.

ok. so the Nazi were bad because of concentration camps you say? Except the large scale death camps did not start until after the Wannsee conference in 1942 When "the final solution" was agreed upon. But of course forgotten is the soviet Gulag camps and the 6 million Ukrainians starved out by Stalin.


The world would have been a much better place if (as in 1870-1) the Germans defeated the French in 1914. Then the Russians in 1915. With that, there is no Hitler, no Nazi Germany. no Communists. No world war 3 (I consider the cold war as ww3 - a series of proxy wars)

with that..i wonder would the Great Depression still have happened?

 

[BUTCH1]

They would have frozen to death in France?

No, obviously not but they would have to have fought the American army, the British army, the French resistance, ect. We also had the 8th air force with an ample supply of B-17's to bomb the crap out of any re-supply efforts plus the P51's to protect them in doing so. Rolling over a beaten, under-supplied German army was one thing but by wars end we had established a very well designed supply chain to support D-day..

 

[ThinClient]

Stalin wasn't backed by and supported by the Catholic church, so that makes him a lesser evil.

 

[darkswordsman17]

The USSR was a semi-ally of Nazi Germany from Sept 1939 to June 1941. I find it funny that the Brits and French say ww2 was started by Germany. The British and French declared war on Germany, not the other way around.

ok you say, they declared war because Germany invaded Poland. They did this to save Poland. So why not declare war on USSR as well as they invaded Poland in mid September 1939.

ok. so the Nazi were bad because of concentration camps you say? Except the large scale death camps did not start until after the Wannsee conference in 1942 When "the final solution" was agreed upon. But of course forgotten is the soviet Gulag camps and the 6 million Ukrainians starved out by Stalin.


The world would have been a much better place if (as in 1870-1) the Germans defeated the French in 1914. Then the Russians in 1915. With that, there is no Hitler, no Nazi Germany. no Communists. No world war 3 (I consider the cold war as ww3 - a series of proxy wars)

with that..i wonder would the Great Depression still have happened?

Do you even listen to yourself?

Russia and France actually had a pact before WWII broke out so there was that. Germany was the main aggressor, the Soviets just used it as an opportunity to reclaim territory they'd lost (well and more). They also knew that Hitler hated the Communists so an alliance between them would not last. Hell why not point out that it was considered the right action by Germany to militarize following the French-Soviet pact, and therefore declare WWII all the fault of the French? Also they kicked the USSR out of the League of Nations over what they were doing. It just made no sense to declare war on Russia at the time.

Why does when it started have anything to do with it? Hey guys, the Nazis weren't bad because they didn't start death camps until 1942! WTF? Um, no actually that's not forgotten, if it were, I'd guess that you wouldn't know about it. But hey let's not let basic logic get in the way of our silly arguments. Why not mention the tens of millions of Chinese killed as well? Hope you didn't forget about that.

The world would have been so much better if _______ had conquered the whole world! Then all wars would have been ended and mankind would have lived in peace and harmony for the rest of our days.