WTO aprroves sanctions on US Exports

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
you don't see the euro collapsing anytime soon. pretty much hitting consecutive highs against the dollar every day now

Wow. You realize that the Euro is less than 5 years old, right? So the Euro has hit a 5 year high compared to the USD. OH NO! The world is ending! :Q

Losing 20% (and still falling) of its valuation compared to the rest of the world's currencies is not something to toss aside 😉

The Euro's initial price was arbitrarily set. The money market must adjust. This is a natural adjustment. Sure, it's not something to toss aside, but it's not the doomsday scenario that people try making it out to be. Once the world adjusts to the Euro, prices will stablize. This adjustment may take another 5 or 10 years because of the enormous number of variables that must balance out.

I said "the rest of the world's currencies" not just the euro. I don't think it will take that long to adjust, but the US dollar is falling like a rock...nothing to do with the euro. Go ahead and look at some other currencies...similar trends can be found 🙂

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
you don't see the euro collapsing anytime soon. pretty much hitting consecutive highs against the dollar every day now

Wow. You realize that the Euro is less than 5 years old, right? So the Euro has hit a 5 year high compared to the USD. OH NO! The world is ending! :Q

Losing 20% (and still falling) of its valuation compared to the rest of the world's currencies is not something to toss aside 😉

The Euro's initial price was arbitrarily set. The money market must adjust. This is a natural adjustment. Sure, it's not something to toss aside, but it's not the doomsday scenario that people try making it out to be. Once the world adjusts to the Euro, prices will stablize. This adjustment may take another 5 or 10 years because of the enormous number of variables that must balance out.

I said "the rest of the world's currencies" not just the euro. I don't think it will take that long to adjust, but the US dollar is falling like a rock...nothing to do with the euro. Go ahead and look at some other currencies...similar trends can be found 🙂

If you look in the paper, every other currency is compared against the dollar. So if the dollar falls, the others go up. The USD has always been the world currency. Everything was always measured in USD as the bottom line. So when the dollar fell, other currencies went up in comparison. Now, lots of countries are switching to the Euro as their base currency which is causing a drop in the dollar. So as the Euro goes up compared to the dollar, other currencies also go up compared to the dollar.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
you don't see the euro collapsing anytime soon. pretty much hitting consecutive highs against the dollar every day now

Wow. You realize that the Euro is less than 5 years old, right? So the Euro has hit a 5 year high compared to the USD. OH NO! The world is ending! :Q

Losing 20% (and still falling) of its valuation compared to the rest of the world's currencies is not something to toss aside 😉

The Euro's initial price was arbitrarily set. The money market must adjust. This is a natural adjustment. Sure, it's not something to toss aside, but it's not the doomsday scenario that people try making it out to be. Once the world adjusts to the Euro, prices will stablize. This adjustment may take another 5 or 10 years because of the enormous number of variables that must balance out.

I said "the rest of the world's currencies" not just the euro. I don't think it will take that long to adjust, but the US dollar is falling like a rock...nothing to do with the euro. Go ahead and look at some other currencies...similar trends can be found 🙂

If you look in the paper, every other currency is compared against the dollar. So if the dollar falls, the others go up. The USD has always been the world currency. Everything was always measured in USD as the bottom line. So when the dollar fell, other currencies went up in comparison. Now, lots of countries to the Eurare switching o as their base currency which is causing a drop in the dollar. So as the Euro goes up compared to the dollar, other currencies also go up compared to the dollar.

Ok, i don't think you are understanding.
The comparison of currencies does not cause another currency to go up or down as you have said with "switching to the Euro as their base currency which is causing a drop in the dollar". I am saying the US dollar itself is dropping significantly as compared to all other currencies.

If i make $50,000 and you make $100,000; i make 0.5 compared to you
If i make $50,000 and your european friend makes $150,000; i make 0.3 compared to him.

did comparing my valuation to another "currency" change the value of their valuation...nope!

Comparisons do not change the value of anything. The point i am making is that the US dollar is dropping compared to all currencies, not just the Euro. Therefore it has nothing to do with the Euro being phased in, and everything to do with the issues with the US economy.

A tip: "So as the Euro goes up compared to the dollar, other currencies also go up compared to the dollar."
This means the US dollar is falling 😉...thanks for playing though.

 

[RabidMongoose]

'up to' $150 million is almost nothing. This is barely even a slap on the wrist.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: sandorski
The same thing is happening(Tarrifs collected being given to US competitors) in the Softwood Lumber dispute between Canda and the US. There's been rumblings in Canada over what products should be taken action on. Even Oil Exports have been mentioned

Canada will probably do nothing. A trade war involving Canada vs. the US would devastate Canada and they most certainly realize it.

In the end Canada will probably just whine and cry about the US and its tariffs against Canadian softwood lumber and the like, but will probably do nothing in real and significant action. They have a good case, but such is the nature when you are almost completely dependent on one other country. You just have to hope that the US eventually listens to the WTO in this case.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
'up to' $150 million is almost nothing. This is barely even a slap on the wrist.

Another source...

"initial $150 million in trade sanction"
"Ottawa has said its WTO-authorized sanctions could reach $720 million in 2007, if the measure stays on the statute books."

Reuters

 

[Kibbo]

Originally posted by: charrison

The United States this year faces economic pressure to repeal tax laws that help exporters, customs rules that support manufacturers and farmers, and other regulations that trade partners say violate international trade rules.

Read more than one article and be more informed.

The first and biggest item on the agenda deals with tax breaks on exports. The WTO in 2000 ruled that the tax breaks are an illegal subsidy, opening the door to $4 billion in sanctions by the European Union.

From the same article.
The problem isn't that you have an overall low tax rate, the problem is you specifically lower your taxes on exports. That's effectively the same as a subsidy.

Dumbass.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: sandorski
The same thing is happening(Tarrifs collected being given to US competitors) in the Softwood Lumber dispute between Canda and the US. There's been rumblings in Canada over what products should be taken action on. Even Oil Exports have been mentioned

Canada will probably do nothing. A trade war involving Canada vs. the US would devastate Canada and they most certainly realize it.

In the end Canada will probably just whine and cry about the US and its tariffs against Canadian softwood lumber and the like, but will probably do nothing in real and significant action. They have a good case, but such is the nature when you are almost completely dependent on one other country. You just have to hope that the US eventually listens to the WTO in this case.

Agreed, we probably will just sit and whine as our country needs to grow some balls.
That being said, we have a lot of weight, and there are a lot of countries upset with US trade practices. If we collaborate, like EU and Japan did on steel the US will beg on its knees for us to show mercy.

$500+ trade deficit is not something you can live without anytime soon. Especially consumer goods and energy. Alone we are weak...but together...well...you don't want to see the results of that...

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: sandorski
The same thing is happening(Tarrifs collected being given to US competitors) in the Softwood Lumber dispute between Canda and the US. There's been rumblings in Canada over what products should be taken action on. Even Oil Exports have been mentioned

Canada will probably do nothing. A trade war involving Canada vs. the US would devastate Canada and they most certainly realize it.

In the end Canada will probably just whine and cry about the US and its tariffs against Canadian softwood lumber and the like, but will probably do nothing in real and significant action. They have a good case, but such is the nature when you are almost completely dependent on one other country. You just have to hope that the US eventually listens to the WTO in this case.

Agreed, we probably will just sit and whine as our country needs to grow some balls.
That being said, we have a lot of weight, and there are a lot of countries upset with US trade practices. If we collaborate, like EU and Japan did on steel the US will beg on its knees for us to show mercy.

$500+ trade deficit is not something you can live without anytime soon. Especially consumer goods and energy. Alone we are weak...but together...well...you don't want to see the results of that...

That's the problem. No, Canada doesn't really have a lot of weight. You need these other countries with you and at this point that is going to be more of a longshot - but the US alone already makes Canada drop down to its knees and grovel like pathetic little weaklings. Canada can't really face the US - it basically owes its existence to the US. Do you bite the hand that feeds you?

Canada needs to not become so dependent on one other country. Unfortunately that is not going to happen any time soon and until then Canada will forever whine, cry, beg, and grovel at the feet of the US.

 

[Kibbo]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: sandorski
The same thing is happening(Tarrifs collected being given to US competitors) in the Softwood Lumber dispute between Canda and the US. There's been rumblings in Canada over what products should be taken action on. Even Oil Exports have been mentioned

Canada will probably do nothing. A trade war involving Canada vs. the US would devastate Canada and they most certainly realize it.

In the end Canada will probably just whine and cry about the US and its tariffs against Canadian softwood lumber and the like, but will probably do nothing in real and significant action. They have a good case, but such is the nature when you are almost completely dependent on one other country. You just have to hope that the US eventually listens to the WTO in this case.

The trade wars have changed with the advent of the WTO. If we only impoose tariffs when allowed to by the WTO, then the US's response will always be in contravention of it's rules. If the US continues to ignore it, eventually the WTO will lose all legitimacy, leading to the kind of tariff-ic (heheh) free-for-all that was a major cause of the magnitude of the Great Depression. Note that the avoidance of another Depression was the entire reason for the inception of the GATT, the precursor of the WTO.

Now, is that really worth it? Do you really think that this administration is that stupid? (Don't answer that Infohawk)

 

[Stunt]

"Do you bite the hand that feeds you? "

You mean the US biting Canada for feeding it electricity, oil, etc?...must be.

You are just lucky we don't pull the oil plug on you guys. I don't know how much longer the US can last if oil goes up even more drastically.

Tell me how US oil prices will do if we pull the plug on 20% of your oil imports?

Just so you know...that's over 4 million barrels a day. If that isn't weight, i don't know what is...

A trade war would have horrible consequenses on both sides of the border. So all we can try to do is play fair and respect each other's rights.

The US has been notorious for not doing this 😛

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison
So the question is, why ius the EU economy stagnant and the US economy growing?

Because your definition of "growing" is different from Europe. They have already figured out how to feed themselves with lower wages, the U.S. is just figuring that out and moving to that Model with the rollout of the Wally World and Mickey D Economy. The transformation is nearly finished so won't be able to say it is "growing" much longer and we'll see the real "truth" come out of this Lame Duck Regime soon enough.

Already showing many signs of a major "Depression" looming.

Dave, you've been saying that the US is going into a major depression for years now. Everyday, I could say that the dow jones will go up more than 200 points in one day. Someday (odds are), it will happen. On that day, will you hail me as a visionary?

Perhaps that clears up why no one puts any credit into what you are saying.

Speak for yourself, much more points to the great fall than just I now. Enjoy the ride.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison
So the question is, why ius the EU economy stagnant and the US economy growing?

Because your definition of "growing" is different from Europe. They have already figured out how to feed themselves with lower wages, the U.S. is just figuring that out and moving to that Model with the rollout of the Wally World and Mickey D Economy. The transformation is nearly finished so won't be able to say it is "growing" much longer and we'll see the real "truth" come out of this Lame Duck Regime soon enough.

Already showing many signs of a major "Depression" looming.

Dave, you've been saying that the US is going into a major depression for years now. Everyday, I could say that the dow jones will go up more than 200 points in one day. Someday (odds are), it will happen. On that day, will you hail me as a visionary?

Perhaps that clears up why no one puts any credit into what you are saying.

Speak for yourself, much more points to the great fall than just I now. Enjoy the ride.

Perhaps you are right. I'm going to spend every cent I make from now on to prepare for the great depression that will be coming at some undetermined point in the future. Sleeping bags, canned food, bottled water. I'll have it all crammed into my bomb shelter located 1 mile below the ground. All you suckers will be dying of starvation while Dave and I will be safe and sound, living the good life. Haha! LOSERS!

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Stunt
"Do you bite the hand that feeds you? "

You mean the US biting Canada for feeding it electricity, oil, etc?...must be.

You are just lucky we don't pull the oil plug on you guys. I don't know how much longer the US can last if oil goes up even more drastically.

Tell me how US oil prices will do if we pull the plug on 20% of your oil imports?

Just so you know...that's over 4 million barrels a day. If that isn't weight, i don't know what is...

A trade war would have horrible consequenses on both sides of the border. So all we can try to do is play fair and respect each other's rights.

The US has been notorious for not doing this 😛

I didn't say that Canada has no weight whatsoever. I'm talking about biting the hand that accounts for about 70-80% of all of Canadian imports and exports. The hand that Canada is entirely dependent upon. Note that if you are saying that Canada is the 'hand' that feeds the US in oil, then does the US now own Canada when looking at 70-80% of Canada's imports and exports depending on the US? How much oil does the US import from Canada? Much less than 70-80%.

A trade war would devastate Canada, even moreso than it would devastate the US. If Canada wants to go into a trade war against a country that it depends upon to exist, then they are just suicidal. Thankfully, as I've said before, you are not in charge of Canada.

 

[Stunt]

"Thankfully, as I've said before, you are not in charge of Canada."

Why cuz i would stand up to the US on trade disputes?

I don't care. We have a lot to offer not only the US but the world.
If you think that you are the only country in the world interested in oil...you've got to have a few braincells missing. I would only use this as leverage. After realizing how dramatic the US oil price would increase, americans would surely ensure any petty trade disputes are fixed asap.

You have seen what small little 1% jolts to your supply does to your gas price. Try 20%...the short term implications would be staggering. I wonder how much americans would like a $5 gallon of gas? Agreed recent long term this would ruin us and you would find ways to control this chaos. But if you think we won't find customers for oil...which is way off base anyways...just means we will sit on huge reserves as the rest of the world's oil is near depleted. Either way...win-win for canada.

Anyways this is something i've discussed with you before. Trade benifts both sides, and this can be seen by the actual drive for trade. It's just you think that the US is giving charity to a poor country, whereas i think our country has a good product at a good price. I want the US to play by the rules, that's all...tell me how you would attempt to get this agenda on the table if you were canadian?...this should be interesting...

 

[SuperTool]

WTO is designed to neuter the US, and prevent it from exercising it's trade power as the #1 consumer and producer in the world.
We bring everything to the WTO table and get nothing in return.

 

[Kibbo]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
WTO is designed to strengthen the US, and allow it from exercising it's trade power as the #1 consumer and producer in the world.
Developing nations bring everything to the WTO table and get nothing in return.

That's what the left was saying all through the 90s.

If you "exercise your power," the other nations of the world will exercixe their own, to the best of their abilities. This will lead to international economic collapse. It's happened before, and it is what the GATT and the WTO is designed to protect. Throughout the 80s and 90s the WTO set policy in a manner which is favourable to a free market ideal, sometimes stopmping all over environmental and community-oriented legislation in third world countries. Their decisions often hamstrung the ability of smaller nations to determine their own environmental and social policy, mostly to the benefit of large corporations. Most of which are American.

Unless, of course, you want trade to be free of interference from every government but your own.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Kibbo

Originally posted by: charrison

The United States this year faces economic pressure to repeal tax laws that help exporters, customs rules that support manufacturers and farmers, and other regulations that trade partners say violate international trade rules.

Read more than one article and be more informed.

The first and biggest item on the agenda deals with tax breaks on exports. The WTO in 2000 ruled that the tax breaks are an illegal subsidy, opening the door to $4 billion in sanctions by the European Union.

From the same article.
The problem isn't that you have an overall low tax rate, the problem is you specifically lower your taxes on exports. That's effectively the same as a subsidy.

Dumbass.

It is still wedged in the corperate tax code dumbass.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Kibbo

Originally posted by: SuperTool
WTO is designed to strengthen the US, and allow it from exercising it's trade power as the #1 consumer and producer in the world.
Developing nations bring everything to the WTO table and get nothing in return.

That's what the left was saying all through the 90s.

If you "exercise your power," the other nations of the world will exercixe their own, to the best of their abilities. This will lead to international economic collapse. It's happened before, and it is what the GATT and the WTO is designed to protect. Throughout the 80s and 90s the WTO set policy in a manner which is favourable to a free market ideal, sometimes stopmping all over environmental and community-oriented legislation in third world countries. Their decisions often hamstrung the ability of smaller nations to determine their own environmental and social policy, mostly to the benefit of large corporations. Most of which are American.

Unless, of course, you want trade to be free of interference from every government but your own.

Extremely blunt but very correct.

WTO has done more for the development of third world countries trade than any other organization.

It also pisses the US off just like every other international organization becauce the US sees itself as rulers of the free world.

Sorry guys, but these are the rules whether you like them or not, this time it holds you back but you didn't complain when it was beneficial to you.

IOW STFU.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Kibbo

Originally posted by: charrison

The United States this year faces economic pressure to repeal tax laws that help exporters, customs rules that support manufacturers and farmers, and other regulations that trade partners say violate international trade rules.

Read more than one article and be more informed.

The first and biggest item on the agenda deals with tax breaks on exports. The WTO in 2000 ruled that the tax breaks are an illegal subsidy, opening the door to $4 billion in sanctions by the European Union.

From the same article.
The problem isn't that you have an overall low tax rate, the problem is you specifically lower your taxes on exports. That's effectively the same as a subsidy.

Dumbass.

It is still wedged in the corperate tax code dumbass.

For EXPORTS dumbass! it is not an internal matter when it isn't sold in the country, did you miss the entire purpose of the WTO? it is to regulate trade BETWEEN countries where legislations from county to country might make trade unfair.

Christ you uneducated idiots are boring the crap out of me tonight.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Kibbo

Originally posted by: charrison

The United States this year faces economic pressure to repeal tax laws that help exporters, customs rules that support manufacturers and farmers, and other regulations that trade partners say violate international trade rules.

Read more than one article and be more informed.

The first and biggest item on the agenda deals with tax breaks on exports. The WTO in 2000 ruled that the tax breaks are an illegal subsidy, opening the door to $4 billion in sanctions by the European Union.

From the same article.
The problem isn't that you have an overall low tax rate, the problem is you specifically lower your taxes on exports. That's effectively the same as a subsidy.

Dumbass.

It is still wedged in the corperate tax code dumbass.

For EXPORTS dumbass! it is not an internal matter when it isn't sold in the country, did you miss the entire purpose of the WTO? it is to regulate trade BETWEEN countries where legislations from county to country might make trade unfair.

Christ you uneducated idiots are boring the crap out of me tonight.

I fully understand that. These items exist in our taxcode because of product dumping.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Engineer
Click me!

Our exports are falling and now this? I thought that the big 136 Billion tax cut bill (that started out at $10,000,000,000 just to fix this) was supposed to correct this?

I cant say I am surprised. Europe is overtaxed and they are eageer to blame the US for it.

the WTO doesn't think so and in the end, that's all that matters

So the question is, why ius the EU economy stagnant and the US economy growing?

The population of the eu isn't growing. It doesn't have to grow as fast to provide continue the same level of production per capita.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Why cuz i would stand up to the US on trade disputes?

No, because you show that you are basically suicidal.

I don't care. We have a lot to offer not only the US but the world.
If you think that you are the only country in the world interested in oil...you've got to have a few braincells missing. I would only use this as leverage. After realizing how dramatic the US oil price would increase, americans would surely ensure any petty trade disputes are fixed asap.

You're missing more than a few brain cells if you think that Canada can survive without the US. I'm willing to bet that Canada will continue to beg and grovel at the feet of the Americans...fairly content to be in that position.

You have seen what small little 1% jolts to your supply does to your gas price. Try 20%...the short term implications would be staggering. I wonder how much americans would like a $5 gallon of gas? Agreed recent long term this would ruin us and you would find ways to control this chaos. But if you think we won't find customers for oil...which is way off base anyways...just means we will sit on huge reserves as the rest of the world's oil is near depleted. Either way...win-win for canada.[/quote]

It's win-win, but you admit that it would ruin Canada in the long run. Good job.

You can whine and say that hypothetically Canada should cut oil to the US. However, there is much more that the US could hypothetically do to hurt Canada. Such is the nature of Canada's extreme dependence.

You seem to think that if Canada wishes to stop all oil exports, then that the US can do nothing about it. Sorry, but Canada's very livelihood hangs in the hands of the Americans.

Anyways this is something i've discussed with you before. Trade benifts both sides, and this can be seen by the actual drive for trade. It's just you think that the US is giving charity to a poor country, whereas i think our country has a good product at a good price. I want the US to play by the rules, that's all...tell me how you would attempt to get this agenda on the table if you were canadian?...this should be interesting...

Yes, we have discussed this before and you still seem to try to avoid the simple issue that Canada is almost completely dependent on the US for its very existence. Numbers have nothing to do with trade benefits, charity, or whatever. The cold hard numbers show that Canada almost owes its economic existence to the United States and this very nature makes Canada grovel and beg to the US.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Stunt
Why cuz i would stand up to the US on trade disputes?

No, because you show that you are basically suicidal.

I don't care. We have a lot to offer not only the US but the world.
If you think that you are the only country in the world interested in oil...you've got to have a few braincells missing. I would only use this as leverage. After realizing how dramatic the US oil price would increase, americans would surely ensure any petty trade disputes are fixed asap.

You're missing more than a few brain cells if you think that Canada can survive without the US. I'm willing to bet that Canada will continue to beg and grovel at the feet of the Americans...fairly content to be in that position.

You have seen what small little 1% jolts to your supply does to your gas price. Try 20%...the short term implications would be staggering. I wonder how much americans would like a $5 gallon of gas? Agreed recent long term this would ruin us and you would find ways to control this chaos. But if you think we won't find customers for oil...which is way off base anyways...just means we will sit on huge reserves as the rest of the world's oil is near depleted. Either way...win-win for canada.

It's win-win, but you admit that it would ruin Canada in the long run. Good job.

You can whine and say that hypothetically Canada should cut oil to the US. However, there is much more that the US could hypothetically do to hurt Canada. Such is the nature of Canada's extreme dependence.

You seem to think that if Canada wishes to stop all oil exports, then that the US can do nothing about it. Sorry, but Canada's very livelihood hangs in the hands of the Americans.

Anyways this is something i've discussed with you before. Trade benifts both sides, and this can be seen by the actual drive for trade. It's just you think that the US is giving charity to a poor country, whereas i think our country has a good product at a good price. I want the US to play by the rules, that's all...tell me how you would attempt to get this agenda on the table if you were canadian?...this should be interesting...

Yes, we have discussed this before and you still seem to try to avoid the simple issue that Canada is almost completely dependent on the US for its very existence. Numbers have nothing to do with trade benefits, charity, or whatever. The cold hard numbers show that Canada almost owes its economic existence to the United States and this very nature makes Canada grovel and beg to the US.[/quote]

I'm not quite sure how canada is dependant on the US... They have more than ample natural resources, a massive abundance of food and no foreign threats... maybe i'm missing something.

However, there is much more that the US could hypothetically do to hurt Canada

Another War for Oil?

 

[RabidMongoose]

I'm not quite sure how canada is dependant on the US... They have more than ample natural resources, a massive abundance of food and no foreign threats... maybe i'm missing something.

70-80% of their imports and exports are linked to the US.

Another War for Oil?

I was thinking more along the lines of the 'power' the US would have over Canada as long as it is related to around 70% of Canada's exports and imports.