wth is with tom's hardware

[Shenkoa]

OMG!!!! FREAKIN 0\/\/3d!

 

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by: fatty4ksu

1. intel are much more efficient at multitasking
2. The diffrence between Intel heat production and AMD isnt large
3. i have seen a lot people take their 3.2 to 4.0 on air


[/quote]
:thumbsup:
Agreed, the single core AMD vs Intel chips are pretty close outside of gaming. The Dual-core chips are x2 dominated...but you do pay a hefty price.

[/quote]

so $100 is such a hefty price for 10-15% better performance, stock, lower power usage, and basically guarenteed 2.4Ghz? What are you on, crack?

 

[Shenkoa]

This has turned into a AMD vs. Intel thread and should be locked.

 

[Ready]

You guys are all fvcking cowards. We all know its all about the cyrix! I'll pit my Cyrix 200MX(166mhz) against any 100000ghz P4 or AMD!

 

[Ready]

OMG this is so cool. I'm on the internet reading nerds argue about who's cpu brand is the fastest!!

 

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by: Ready
You guys are all fvcking cowards. We all know its all about the cyrix! I'll pit my Cyrix 200MX(166mhz) against any 100000ghz P4 or AMD!

bah. Mine is overclocked to 183MHz! It'll beat yours!

(Cyrix MII was my first socket 7 CPU)

 

[Ready]

Originally posted by: Leper Messiah

Originally posted by: Ready
You guys are all fvcking cowards. We all know its all about the cyrix! I'll pit my Cyrix 200MX(166mhz) against any 100000ghz P4 or AMD!

bah. Mine is overclocked to 183MHz! It'll beat yours!

(Cyrix MII was my first socket 7 CPU)

Oh sh!t! I yield I yield

 

[carlosd]

Originally posted by: fatty4ksu

1. intel are much more efficient at multitasking
2. The diffrence between Intel heat production and AMD isnt large
3. i have seen a lot people take their 3.2 to 4.0 on air


[/quote]
:thumbsup:
Agreed, the single core AMD vs Intel chips are pretty close outside of gaming. The Dual-core chips are x2 dominated...but you do pay a hefty price.

[/quote]

Fatty said that his P4 at 1.8 encoded faster than a A64, and he is still ignoring the work done by mark and duvie, who demostrated there is no really price diference btw a Pd 820 and a X2 3800 similar configs, but great diference in perfromance and heat! TROLL.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Shenkoa
This has turned into a AMD vs. Intel thread and should be locked.

Its more of a troll fest than that ! In todays world, there is virtually no compitition in CPU's, unlike Video cards.

 

[Lithan]

Actully a DECENT 865 board (p4p800se) is $95 new. a ct479 is $50 and a 730 is $200. That comes out to about $350 buying all the parts new. Dothan is not a value chip. It's fun and performs well, price/perf is about on par with a 3200+ venice. BUT as soon as you pick up a 7800gt or better for your athlon, you've got to drop $200 on a mobo to import a pci-e model to keep dothan competitive. In the end, 740+p4gd1+ct479+7800gt= $750. Whereas 3200+ + dfi Ultra-D + 7800gt = <$575. Hard to justify the dothan with price/perf at that point.

 

[cirrhosis]

Originally posted by: Shenkoa
This has turned into a troll thread and should be locked.

 

[Ready]

Im just gonna offer my useless 2 cents here. ANY cpu that consumes more than 80 watts of power (idle) does not belong in a home PC be it AMD or Intel. Maybe I'm the only person here who has a problem with a tiny little cpu that produce more heat than a 100watt light bulb because I know how much diffence in room temperature a 100watt light bulb will make when it's on in a room.

 

[Mucker]

Back to the topic, Tom and his band of merry idiots lost me on that PSU endurance testing. What a debacle.....

m

 

[Zarubable]

Originally posted by: Mucker
Back to the topic, Tom and his band of merry idiots lost me on that PSU endurance testing. What a debacle.....

m

That was one of the more honest reviews that was done.
Did I use the word honest to describe a review that THD did?argggggg

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Zarubable

Originally posted by: Mucker
Back to the topic, Tom and his band of merry idiots lost me on that PSU endurance testing. What a debacle.....

m

That was one of the more honest reviews that was done.
Did I use the word honest to describe a review that THD did?argggggg

The reason is that they made the mistake of doing it "live". Note that when things started to go wrong on the P4 platform, somehow the live US feed cut out. Go figure...

 

[Mucker]

I loved it when teams showed up from the varying brands at TH labs to address concerns. All of a sudden, the products were A-OK.........nothing to see here, move along please......

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: Lithan
Actully a DECENT 865 board (p4p800se) is $95 new. a ct479 is $50 and a 730 is $200. That comes out to about $350 buying all the parts new. Dothan is not a value chip. It's fun and performs well, price/perf is about on par with a 3200+ venice. BUT as soon as you pick up a 7800gt or better for your athlon, you've got to drop $200 on a mobo to import a pci-e model to keep dothan competitive. In the end, 740+p4gd1+ct479+7800gt= $750. Whereas 3200+ + dfi Ultra-D + 7800gt = <$575. Hard to justify the dothan with price/perf at that point.

Dothan 730's go for as low as $50 on eBay, averaging slightly under the $100 mark, some new some OEM pulls (they are quite common because they are the lowest speed grade 533 FSB Pentium-M). It's a huge price differential between actually buying a Dothan 730 from a retailer (which is upwards of $250). The reason is simple, all the components required (minus the CT-479 adapter) are niche products: extremely expensive to buy retail but also relatively cheap 2nd hand or on eBay. As a poor college student, I bought the CT-479 new and the board/CPU off eBay for a combined total of less than $300 quite a while ago.

Although seriously, if Intel redid an i875PE with PCI-E support on a socket479 to natively support Pentium-M at a default 800 FSB in a desktop, it would pretty much eliminate the single processor performance gap.

Not to mention a Dothan at 2.6Ghz will consume... 40W of power maybe? I think a Venice overclocked to the same speeds would consume about double that?

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Lithan
Actully a DECENT 865 board (p4p800se) is $95 new. a ct479 is $50 and a 730 is $200. That comes out to about $350 buying all the parts new. Dothan is not a value chip. It's fun and performs well, price/perf is about on par with a 3200+ venice. BUT as soon as you pick up a 7800gt or better for your athlon, you've got to drop $200 on a mobo to import a pci-e model to keep dothan competitive. In the end, 740+p4gd1+ct479+7800gt= $750. Whereas 3200+ + dfi Ultra-D + 7800gt = <$575. Hard to justify the dothan with price/perf at that point.

I seriously doubt a 1.6 Ghz Dothan is as fast as a 2 Ghz A64. I think the A64 at stock vs stock would beat the Dothan in most applications, and dominate it in games.

Doesn't the Dothan currently run on a 133 MHz FSB also?

 

[Shenkoa]

Mods please lock this thread.

 

[hooflung]

Thank you all for allowing me to waiste a lunch break to read this dribble. It as like a caffine injection gone wrong. THG has been going down in the quality of their reviews since AMD moved over to an integrated memory controller, that is visible to anyone with a real concern for watching the IT markets. Wheter it was their intention to be intel and now they would have a hard time doing so, or whether it was just the lack of inovation in the IT market is all speculation and probably meets somewhere in the middle.

Nothing is new under the sun. Every manufacturer has it's day in the spot light. Intel sure held it with the Pentium through Pentium 3. Lets just forget about the Pentium Pro. Cyrix had its short day with 386-to-486 upgrades and AMD has been second classed since the 486DX4 133 they marketed as a 586. AMD used market prowess to pull them selves out of second class by buying up real innovation when they bought NexGen. Cyrix died and VIA reinvented them and NO big name competition has penetrated their market successfully.

IT is can be likened to the Star Wars Universe. We have a rich back story and our technology is just a revision of an ancient system. However instead of appreciating what we have and who brought us these helpful gifts we just get cought up in some Galactic Battle of the Empire vs the Rebellion. Grow up.

 

[Lithan]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: Lithan
Actully a DECENT 865 board (p4p800se) is $95 new. a ct479 is $50 and a 730 is $200. That comes out to about $350 buying all the parts new. Dothan is not a value chip. It's fun and performs well, price/perf is about on par with a 3200+ venice. BUT as soon as you pick up a 7800gt or better for your athlon, you've got to drop $200 on a mobo to import a pci-e model to keep dothan competitive. In the end, 740+p4gd1+ct479+7800gt= $750. Whereas 3200+ + dfi Ultra-D + 7800gt = <$575. Hard to justify the dothan with price/perf at that point.

Dothan 730's go for as low as $50 on eBay, averaging slightly under the $100 mark, some new some OEM pulls (they are quite common because they are the lowest speed grade 533 FSB Pentium-M). It's a huge price differential between actually buying a Dothan 730 from a retailer (which is upwards of $250). The reason is simple, all the components required (minus the CT-479 adapter) are niche products: extremely expensive to buy retail but also relatively cheap 2nd hand or on eBay. As a poor college student, I bought the CT-479 new and the board/CPU off eBay for a combined total of less than $300 quite a while ago.

Although seriously, if Intel redid an i875PE with PCI-E support on a socket479 to natively support Pentium-M at a default 800 FSB in a desktop, it would pretty much eliminate the single processor performance gap.

Not to mention a Dothan at 2.6Ghz will consume... 40W of power maybe? I think a Venice overclocked to the same speeds would consume about double that?

A Working dothan 730 for $50? In your dreams maybe. $100 is about as cheap as you'll see them. And they average $130-140. They are all dell pulls and trust me when I say that's a bad thing. A decent shot at a GOOD Dothan will cost $200+ unless you buy second hand and pretested to 2.6-2.7ish which will run ~$150. And p4p800se are 65-75$ on ebay plus usually $15 shipping.

 

[Lithan]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: Lithan
Actully a DECENT 865 board (p4p800se) is $95 new. a ct479 is $50 and a 730 is $200. That comes out to about $350 buying all the parts new. Dothan is not a value chip. It's fun and performs well, price/perf is about on par with a 3200+ venice. BUT as soon as you pick up a 7800gt or better for your athlon, you've got to drop $200 on a mobo to import a pci-e model to keep dothan competitive. In the end, 740+p4gd1+ct479+7800gt= $750. Whereas 3200+ + dfi Ultra-D + 7800gt = <$575. Hard to justify the dothan with price/perf at that point.

I seriously doubt a 1.6 Ghz Dothan is as fast as a 2 Ghz A64. I think the A64 at stock vs stock would beat the Dothan in most applications, and dominate it in games.

Doesn't the Dothan currently run on a 133 MHz FSB also?

We're assuming you're overclocking. Buying a dothan + ct-479 to run stock means you're an idiot.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by: Lithan

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: Lithan
Actully a DECENT 865 board (p4p800se) is $95 new. a ct479 is $50 and a 730 is $200. That comes out to about $350 buying all the parts new. Dothan is not a value chip. It's fun and performs well, price/perf is about on par with a 3200+ venice. BUT as soon as you pick up a 7800gt or better for your athlon, you've got to drop $200 on a mobo to import a pci-e model to keep dothan competitive. In the end, 740+p4gd1+ct479+7800gt= $750. Whereas 3200+ + dfi Ultra-D + 7800gt = <$575. Hard to justify the dothan with price/perf at that point.

I seriously doubt a 1.6 Ghz Dothan is as fast as a 2 Ghz A64. I think the A64 at stock vs stock would beat the Dothan in most applications, and dominate it in games.

Doesn't the Dothan currently run on a 133 MHz FSB also?

We're assuming you're overclocking. Buying a dothan + ct-479 to run stock means you're an idiot.

or you want a passively cooled HTPC.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: Lithan

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: Lithan
Actully a DECENT 865 board (p4p800se) is $95 new. a ct479 is $50 and a 730 is $200. That comes out to about $350 buying all the parts new. Dothan is not a value chip. It's fun and performs well, price/perf is about on par with a 3200+ venice. BUT as soon as you pick up a 7800gt or better for your athlon, you've got to drop $200 on a mobo to import a pci-e model to keep dothan competitive. In the end, 740+p4gd1+ct479+7800gt= $750. Whereas 3200+ + dfi Ultra-D + 7800gt = <$575. Hard to justify the dothan with price/perf at that point.

Dothan 730's go for as low as $50 on eBay, averaging slightly under the $100 mark, some new some OEM pulls (they are quite common because they are the lowest speed grade 533 FSB Pentium-M). It's a huge price differential between actually buying a Dothan 730 from a retailer (which is upwards of $250). The reason is simple, all the components required (minus the CT-479 adapter) are niche products: extremely expensive to buy retail but also relatively cheap 2nd hand or on eBay. As a poor college student, I bought the CT-479 new and the board/CPU off eBay for a combined total of less than $300 quite a while ago.

Although seriously, if Intel redid an i875PE with PCI-E support on a socket479 to natively support Pentium-M at a default 800 FSB in a desktop, it would pretty much eliminate the single processor performance gap.

Not to mention a Dothan at 2.6Ghz will consume... 40W of power maybe? I think a Venice overclocked to the same speeds would consume about double that?

A Working dothan 730 for $50? In your dreams maybe. $100 is about as cheap as you'll see them. And they average $130-140. They are all dell pulls and trust me when I say that's a bad thing. A decent shot at a GOOD Dothan will cost $200+ unless you buy second hand and pretested to 2.6-2.7ish which will run ~$150. And p4p800se are 65-75$ on ebay plus usually $15 shipping.

BTW, I was poking around the prices a bit...

A P4GD1 is NOT $200. You have to go to a European retailer (it was never released in North America), which sells them for around 75 Euros, shipping to the USA will probably be another 10 Euros, so thats about $110ish for the board shipped to the USA, comparable to an Asus A8N series. The CT-479 adapter is around $45-50. A Dothan 730 for $50? Yes they go about as low. I said they average slightly under $100 (compared to slightly over $200 for a retail one)**. Celeron-M/1MB/400FSB will goes for around $20-30 on eBay (compared to $100ish retail). Huge difference (200%+) in retail/eBay. On a side note, there is absolutely no difference between a Dell/Gateway/Compaq OEM pull and a retail one, as long as they are the same stepping (C0).

As for benchmarks, I'll just google some up:

Anandtech Stock 2.13Ghz/133FSB:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2382&p=3 (like 10 pages)

Anandtech Overclocked to 2.56GHz/160FSB:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2382&p=10 (4 pages or so)

French Site x86-secret.com (A-FX@2.8Ghz vs P4-EE@4.1Ghz vs Dothan@2.77Ghz/185FSB)
http://www.x86-secret.com/articles/divers/ct479/ct479-4.htm

X-Bit Labs (2.26Ghz/533FSB Default):
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentiumm-780_15.html

GamePC.com (2.13GHz/533FSB Default and 2.7Ghz@??? FSB):
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=770ct479&page=7

Power Consumption from XBit-Labs:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentiumm-780_9.html (A Pentium-M 780 runs at a default 2.26Ghz clock speed)

Power Consumption from GamePC:
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=770ct479&page=4

In summary, I think an Overclocked Dothan is one of the better deals out there. It can almost match an Athlon64 in price/performance (if you know where to buy parts for it). Pretty much match it in performance. And dominate it in Performance/Watt comparison. It is definitely superior to ANY Pentium-4 based desktop, IMO, unless you feel like Media-Encoding for an ungodly amount of time. Also, there is no reason to believe that it won't scale as good with a PCI-E 7800GT, assuming you have the PCI-E P4GD1 or P4GPL-X.


Edit:
** Think about who would be buying a Dothan 730. Obviously no one will buy it to upgrade their laptop CPU, because the 730 is the lowest grade of 533FSB cpu's. Older laptops with 400FSB Banias/Dothans cant take a 533 chip. Thus, the only viable market left for Dothan 730 buyers are people who want to put them in desktops or those with a 533FSB CPU that died. I would think the latter to be quite smaller than the former.

 

[carlosd]

show me, show me that 730 for 50?, links, links, maybe you dreamed about it. That dothan has nothing to do with a A64 3000+ venice price/performance OCing, The A64 3000+ costs 146 the 730 about 210. Stock the PM is slower, and the A64 3000+ veniceOC about 2.6-2.7 and the PM 730 OCs less, also the A64 scales better because of the integrated memory controller,Also the PM is very weak in many desktop FPU intensive apps. I would say, there is no contest. Performance per watt is not important in the desktop as long as the CPU is not as power hungry and Hot as the prescott. (The A64 is pretty cool and doesn't consume a lot of power) Also no upgradeability granted.