wth is with tom's hardware

[TraumaRN]

I think this thread needs to be on topic, it's not about whether Intel or AMD has the better processor, Intel has strengths and weaknesses as does AMD...the point is that Toms has had and continues to have a serious lack of journalistic integrity and I think that's what is important. Deceiving potential consumers about products whether or not that product is better is wrong, and all we can do as informed consumers is look to other hardware review sites and make the informed decision buying the products that suite our needs.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
I think this thread needs to be on topic, it's not about whether Intel or AMD has the better processor, Intel has strengths and weaknesses as does AMD...the point is that Toms has had and continues to have a serious lack of journalistic integrity and I think that's what is important. Deceiving potential consumers about products whether or not that product is better is wrong, and all we can do as informed consumers is look to other hardware review sites and make the informed decision buying the products that suite our needs.

I totally agree with that statement.
But in all seriousness you will not get many AMD users to admit to what you just posted....Doh...

 

[Paintballfreak66]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Paintballfreak66

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Finally-- you don`t disagree?? Then why a thread on the subject? rofl......

To keep people like you, backed up in a corner, from posting because you feel the need to protect your cpu preference. Funny how the biggest intel fan in the thread comes off as being the nicest...

I never intended to start arguments or anything I just wanted to know how intel is on top on almost every test on Tom's Hardware. Yeah, I know intel is better at some things, but I know it isn't that much better.
Next time you post, reread what you're typing and make sure you don't sound so "naive" (yes, that's how it's supposed to be spelled).

Doh..

If all you have to say concerns grammatical errors that have nothing to do with the topic thats very sad!


Actually your AMD die hard who has trouble acknowledging that there are applications that Intel actually does own AMD!!
Just like there are applications or as you would say--there are alot more applications where AMD is better than Intel.

So why get so up in arms becuase quite possibly Intel does make some chips that are as good or better than AMD at various applications?

One thing we do agree on is that AMD owns Gaming!!

Have a nice day!!
Don`t get your panty`s all in a bunch over grammer.....its not as if we are writing a doctoral thesis!!lolol....doh

Ok that makes sense. I say I understand intel is better at some apps and you turn around and say I can't grasp that intel could ever be better than amd at anything. YOU even highlighted where I acknowledged that.... ok...

Sorry for calling out your grammatical errors. I guess I just thought if you can't spell correctly here, what makes you able to when it's important? I bet you love spellcheck

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
I think this thread needs to be on topic, it's not about whether Intel or AMD has the better processor, Intel has strengths and weaknesses as does AMD...the point is that Toms has had and continues to have a serious lack of journalistic integrity and I think that's what is important. Deceiving potential consumers about products whether or not that product is better is wrong, and all we can do as informed consumers is look to other hardware review sites and make the informed decision buying the products that suite our needs.

I totally agree with that statement.
But in all seriousness you will not get many AMD users to admit to what you just posted....Doh...

The reason why many people wont admit that on this forum is that some of the weaknesses of the Intel procs is they have a tendency to run hot, and before you rebuke what I say, not every person can afford the XP-120 and joe blow certainly doesnt know about it and if you read from the respected hardware websites they have a tendency to note that they dont like Intel procs because of the heat, power consumption and general thermal inefficiency. I am speaking from experience I am typing this on a Prescott powered P4...however I have a AMD system that I've been using however the mobo decided to crap out on me about 10 days ago and the replacement will be here tomorrow. But about my P4 system I can leave my apartment and close the door to my bedroom and come back a few hours later and it's literally warmer in the room and I think alot of people dont want to have to deal with that, not to mention the electric bills, I think people want the best product and many people tend to think that's AMD, I used to be a huge P4 fan, now that I've got my AMD I dont know if I'll go back to Intel in the near future and I'm not trying to insult you or your choices of processor, I'm just saying what suites me best is AMD and if Intel suites you best then more power to you!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Paintballfreak66

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Paintballfreak66

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Finally-- you don`t disagree?? Then why a thread on the subject? rofl......

To keep people like you, backed up in a corner, from posting because you feel the need to protect your cpu preference. Funny how the biggest intel fan in the thread comes off as being the nicest...

I never intended to start arguments or anything I just wanted to know how intel is on top on almost every test on Tom's Hardware. Yeah, I know intel is better at some things, but I know it isn't that much better.
Next time you post, reread what you're typing and make sure you don't sound so "naive" (yes, that's how it's supposed to be spelled).

Doh..

If all you have to say concerns grammatical errors that have nothing to do with the topic thats very sad!


Actually your AMD die hard who has trouble acknowledging that there are applications that Intel actually does own AMD!!
Just like there are applications or as you would say--there are alot more applications where AMD is better than Intel.

So why get so up in arms becuase quite possibly Intel does make some chips that are as good or better than AMD at various applications?

One thing we do agree on is that AMD owns Gaming!!

Have a nice day!!
Don`t get your panty`s all in a bunch over grammer.....its not as if we are writing a doctoral thesis!!lolol....doh

Ok that makes sense. I say I understand intel is better at some apps and you turn around and say I can't grasp that intel could ever be better than amd at anything. YOU even highlighted where I acknowledged that.... ok...

Sorry for calling out your grammatical errors. I guess I just thought if you can't spell correctly here, what makes you able to when it's important? I bet you love spellcheck

So where exactly did you say you understood anything about Intel....Ok my buddy seems to think intel mops it up with amd. And I just sit there and laugh at him. Then he pulls up this site Tom's Hardware Cpu Charts and in at least half, maybe more, intel is on top in the comparisons. What is tom's hardware doing? There has to be some stipulation or does intel really perform better in those apps? If so that would come as a huge suprise after seeing how everyone says go amd. I'm not saying I disagree or anything, I love my 3700 but I'd still like to know why so I can prove to my friend amd rox0rs. Thanks.

Thats laughable.....you obviously did disagree or you would not have posted such diatribe....but I guess I should give you the benefit of the doubt that your not an absolute idiot......so sorry for ragging on you!!

 

[Paintballfreak66]

do you just not read very well or is there a problem with comprehension? Look at what I highlighted. I made it easy for you. Can you understand that? Here, let me write it again.

I never intended to start arguments or anything I just wanted to know how intel is on top on almost every test on Tom's Hardware. Yeah, I know intel is better at some things, but I know it isn't that much better.

My original post was about my friend, make fun of him not me. If you actually read all those charts, which I doubt you did, it shows intel on top of almost all of them. I have owned both I know they each have their own strengths but the charts are significantly in favor of intel. Stop trying to make my thread something it isn't. And don't construe what I said to try and make yourself look smart. You should consider your own intelligence perhaps before making assessments of others? Now how about we stop flaming and get back to the topic. Actually, I think up until you posted I got the answer I was looking for. A simple explanation of the types of tests and circumstances explained it for me. Thanks guys.

 

[Aenslead]

Originally posted by: Vee
A third reason you shouldn't trust them is because their general manager have a 'peculiar personality'. You can check it out here, in this unmasked (after a beer too many?) rant:


http://www.tgdaily.com/2004/02/18/intel/

Nah. That's how he REALLY is. You could read that idiot's columns @ THG... he has to be THE most flamed IT columnist in ALL the internet.

I never go to THG any more.

Back in the day... they where good. Not any more.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Yet at the same time had THG said the AMD chip beats the Intel Chip at everything hands down no contest-- I bet you would say all right!! THG is on the right track!!
You really want to place your Venice up against my p4 3.2 EE o/c`d to 4.0???
Who determines the how we judge which is best.....
Again the old problem......do we use tests that we all know AMD is best at or do we use tests that we all know Intel can beat AMD at.......who is the group of impartial hudges?lol.....
What I can`t believe is that you are nieve enough to believe that AMD chips are hands down the best chips for every application...OOops did i put words in your mouth....rofl...hahahaaa
rofl.......My parents(may they rest in Peace!) taught me to never argue well in this case never fight with an unarmed person!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

You need to relax there JEDIYoda. The EE series is in a price category far removed from the mainstream desktop market. I'm sure your 3.2EE @ 4 Ghz is about as fast as any AMD, but for the price of your chip you could buy a 3200+ or one of the new opterons and some serious watercooling or a Promie Mach II and overclock the chip to the moon.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Tom's needs to dramatically improve its article-finding search engine. It's just god-awful and antiquated.

 

[Shenkoa]

Originally posted by: Zarubable
For the Life of Me I have never seen an AMD guy appear to be chicken when putting his Venice overclocked to 2.7 against an Intel processor 3.2 EE over clocked to 4.0.

Your venice should be able to easily handle the P4 - shouldn`t it?
I bet his memory also is hauling ass along with his processor!

So to should yours!

I never thought I would see the day when an AMD dude would run with his tail between his legs after challenging the Intel guy!

Didn`t your parents teach you to keep your mouth closed unless you know for sure what you are talking about?
My God and you challenged this guy!
It`s Ok to admit defeat and be a man about things and say you screwed up or you were drunk or high or something!

Good Luck to you!

WTF! are you talking about n00b? AND HOW DARE YOU mock my education, you dont even know how much schooling I have been through. For a guy with 34 posts you sure have big cohona's!

I have not even been home to run benchmarks, and bysides that Jedi and I need to agree on a benchmarking suite, you should know that.

 

[Zarubable]

Originally posted by: Shenkoa

Originally posted by: Zarubable
For the Life of Me I have never seen an AMD guy appear to be chicken when putting his Venice overclocked to 2.7 against an Intel processor 3.2 EE over clocked to 4.0.

Your venice should be able to easily handle the P4 - shouldn`t it?
I bet his memory also is hauling ass along with his processor!

So to should yours!

I never thought I would see the day when an AMD dude would run with his tail between his legs after challenging the Intel guy!

Didn`t your parents teach you to keep your mouth closed unless you know for sure what you are talking about?
My God and you challenged this guy!
It`s Ok to admit defeat and be a man about things and say you screwed up or you were drunk or high or something!

Good Luck to you!

WTF! are you talking about n00b? AND HOW DARE YOU mock my education, you dont even know how much schooling I have been through. For a guy with 34 posts you sure have big cohona's!

I have not even been home to run benchmarks, and bysides that Jedi and I need to agree on a benchmarking suite, you should know that.

I can mock your Junior High School diploma if I choose you freakin ingrate.
From the looks of your challenge and then you weaseling out. I would say junior High school diploma is about right.

You did`nt even have the common courtesy to apologize to JEDI for challenging him with your ghetto CPU.

You embarrassed all other AMD users by your childish actions.
Sure you could probably buy 3 or 4 of the chips that your using with what was paid for his chip.
Bottom line is his 3.2EE owns your chip.
So be a man and say your sorry for embarrasing all us AMD users.


Now kiss and make up.
I understand JEDI is building an AMD rigg in the near future maybe JEDI might ask you for advice if you kiss and make up.

 

[Shenkoa]

I wont feed into this any more, but thank you very much for your honesty Zarubable

 

[klah]

Van > Tom.

 

[fatty4ksu]

There is no bias at THG. Nothing but excellent hardware review articles.

Besides, the CPU charts are AMAZING!

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yay, the trolls are multiplying.

1). THG is biased. The posters on this forum are not the only ones who think in this fashion. Don't believe me? You should have been on the THG forums after Tom's faulty "stress test". I do not find Tom's bias to be particularly consistant, leading me to believe that their reviewers waffle between being biased and being flat-out incompetant.

2). Shenkoa did not weasel out of anything. He has a completely valid point: If you do something inane like, say, compare a 3.2EE vs Venice in a synthetic such as Sandra's memory bandwidth test, of course the results will be skewed(in Intel's favor, no less, since P4 platforms have more memory bandwidth). There must be an agreed-upon suite of benchmarks before any meaningful tests can be run.

3). A 3.2EE OCd to 4 ghz will not "own" a Venice at 2.7 ghz. It'll win some benchmarks and lose others. In the end, the Venice will prove to be the faster CPU, especially for gaming. The 3.2EE will win some encoding benchmarks and some multitasking benchmarks, most likely.

 

[Shenkoa]

Well I dont know why Jedi has not posted anything, I did however run some Synthetic benchmarks, its the only thing I can really do. I only have a Raddon 9800 Pro so the gaming benchmarks are out of the question. Here is what I have so Far.

Sandra

Sandra ALU
Sandra Memory Benchmark
Sandra MultiMedia

Science Mark

Science Mark AES Encryption
Science Mark Memory Benchmark
Science Mark Molecular Dyanamics
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Shenkoa/ScienceMarkSGEMMC.jpg">Science Mark SGEMM C</a>
Science Mark SGEMM SSE

I will add more later.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Vee
Intel P4 tend to perform its best on media apps and some benchmarks that have been custom tailored for it. More precicely exactly those benchmarks *carefully* selected and used by tomshardware.com, and not much else.

(Which is one reason why you shouldn't trust tomshardware. Another reason you shouldn't trust them is because they are not satisfied with the selection alone, they also cheat some when benchmarking. A third reason you shouldn't trust them is because their general manager have a 'peculiar personality'. You can check it out here, in this unmasked (after a beer too many?) rant:


http://www.tgdaily.com/2004/02/18/intel/


I believe it's a case of what is generally called "Intelfanboy"? Is it not?
Note the immature, childish gloating.
A fourth reason is that you will find there is a whole crowd that will tell you "don't trust tomshardware.com". Their reputation is one of bias, dishonesty, incompetence.)

Intel P4 perform solid on anything modern concerned with media. Particularly video.
And the top P4s have the advantage of ht, which allows Windows to shedule it two threads, avoiding some blockages.
(Still, a good trick to inflate Intel's performance vs AMD on videoencoding is to drop audio and lower quality. Not relevant to real performance perhaps, but useful if one wants to slant a benchmark.)

Intel P4 perform remarkably poorly (compared to AMD) on code that has been little or not at all optimized specifically for the P4 architecture. That happens to be a lot of real software. But there have been no such benchmarks since the days of the Willamette, so this is not a fact that is much present in peoples awareness today. (The Northwood core got an awful lot of credit for "improvements" that were partly due to changed benchmarks.)
But this may be part of the background to the saying that "AMD is faster in real use".

A more quantified and verified example of this proverb is this spectacular test on Extremetech that successfully demonstrates that the real use superiority of AMD goes far beyond what the figures of an even honest benchmark would indicate.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1854788,00.asp

It's hard to rekommend Intel these days. AMD is cheaper, faster, cooler and far less trouble and problems.

When it comes to Intel, wait for Intel's Conroe (P5?). Don't buy their sh**ty P4.

QFT

Vee, once again you've posted the only sane and informative post with facts to back it up...I thank you (and I've been looking for that link for awhile...couldn't remember where I had read it).

 

[Shenkoa]

0\/\//\/@G3

 

[pacho108]

Originally posted by: fatty4ksu
There is extremely bias at THG. Nothing but biased hardware review articles.

Besides, the CPU charts are AMAZINGLY BIASED!

fixed

 

[Lord Midas]

What a load of old rubbish. I've been reading THG and Anadtech for years now and have never seen bias in their reviews. I use both these sites for my benchmarking and purchasing decisions.

Plus, they've never gone the Intel Fanboy route. Why would they say go Intel when their benchmarks clearly show AMD whoopin' Intel Ass?

If I were you i'd find specific reviews of CPUs and their benchmarks rather than use that CPU Chart.

And to back up what i'm saying, before the Fanboys start the flames, here is a few quotes from THG site:

"If you're looking for a high-performance system for 3D games, you could do no better than to go with the AMD system."

"For enthusiasts, meanwhile, the choice is clear: The Athlon 64 X2 system has the best performance when running individual power-hungry applications and shines with exemplary stability. Generally, the same cannot be said for the Intel system."

Ooo, Intel bias there then... I think not.

Always use more than one site for your purchasing decisions...

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I don't rely on hardware sites to decide what to buy. I rely on feedback from experienced end-users like myself. Reviewers sometimes are sent hand-picked products or ES versions that may not be the same as the version I will pick up from an e-tailer.

There are even a good number of competent members e.g. Zebo, that I trust for the benchmarks because they use a excellent testing metodology, and have no financial incentive to display a bias

Tom may not be biased * he'll take anyone's money * but Omid certainly is, and his testing methodology is sometimes suspect too.

 

[Zarubable]

Originally posted by: DrMrLordX
Yay, the trolls are multiplying.

1). THG is biased. The posters on this forum are not the only ones who think in this fashion. Don't believe me? You should have been on the THG forums after Tom's faulty "stress test". I do not find Tom's bias to be particularly consistant, leading me to believe that their reviewers waffle between being biased and being flat-out incompetant.

2). Shenkoa did not weasel out of anything. He has a completely valid point: If you do something inane like, say, compare a 3.2EE vs Venice in a synthetic such as Sandra's memory bandwidth test, of course the results will be skewed(in Intel's favor, no less, since P4 platforms have more memory bandwidth). There must be an agreed-upon suite of benchmarks before any meaningful tests can be run.

3). A 3.2EE OCd to 4 ghz will not "own" a Venice at 2.7 ghz. It'll win some benchmarks and lose others. In the end, the Venice will prove to be the faster CPU, especially for gaming. The 3.2EE will win some encoding benchmarks and some multitasking benchmarks, most likely.

YES--the AMD trolls are out in force.
1--THG is biased---true not true. Depends on who they are dealing with.
2--Shenkoa has no valid points.--Man I will place my Venice against your Intel Expensive Eddition any day of the week, well that is if you dont choose strictly optimised applications like Tom does. ---that sounds correct.
So far all talk no action--words and more words--too funny.
His venice has no chance in hell of competing with a 3.2EE over clocked to 4.0 especially if JEDi`s memory is also blazing.--just fact no comments necessary.
The pathetic thing about all of this is only afew "mature" AMD users have even came out on record stating that the Intel chip could go toe to toe with Shenkoa`s ghetto chip.
If I understood JEDi`s posts at all; I would say all he was looking for was acknowledgement that AMD didn`t own Intel in ALL benchmark applications....
Why can`t AMD people just grow up and understand that AMD doesn`t totally own Intel?
Sure Intel has thrown in the towel when it comes to gaming.
But they haven`t throw in the towel when it comes to other apps.
3--Spoken like a true AMD zealot!!---A 3.2EE OCd to 4 ghz will not "own" a Venice at 2.7 ghz. It'll win some benchmarks and lose others. In the end, the Venice will prove to be the faster CPU, especially for gaming. The 3.2EE will win some encoding benchmarks and some multitasking benchmarks, most likely.

 

[Lord Midas]

From DAPUNISHER
"I rely on feedback from experienced end-users like myself."

Alas, lots of us cannot afford to test all these products. One upgrade is our lot and it has to be good.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by: Zarubable

Originally posted by: DrMrLordX
Yay, the trolls are multiplying.

1). THG is biased. The posters on this forum are not the only ones who think in this fashion. Don't believe me? You should have been on the THG forums after Tom's faulty "stress test". I do not find Tom's bias to be particularly consistant, leading me to believe that their reviewers waffle between being biased and being flat-out incompetant.

2). Shenkoa did not weasel out of anything. He has a completely valid point: If you do something inane like, say, compare a 3.2EE vs Venice in a synthetic such as Sandra's memory bandwidth test, of course the results will be skewed(in Intel's favor, no less, since P4 platforms have more memory bandwidth). There must be an agreed-upon suite of benchmarks before any meaningful tests can be run.

3). A 3.2EE OCd to 4 ghz will not "own" a Venice at 2.7 ghz. It'll win some benchmarks and lose others. In the end, the Venice will prove to be the faster CPU, especially for gaming. The 3.2EE will win some encoding benchmarks and some multitasking benchmarks, most likely.

YES--the AMD trolls are out in force.
1--THG is biased---true not true. Depends on who they are dealing with.
2--Shenkoa has no valid points.--Man I will place my Venice against your Intel Expensive Eddition any day of the week, well that is if you dont choose strictly optimised applications like Tom does. ---that sounds correct.
So far all talk no action--words and more words--too funny.
His venice has no chance in hell of competing with a 3.2EE over clocked to 4.0 especially if JEDi`s memory is also blazing.--just fact no comments necessary.
The pathetic thing about all of this is only afew "mature" AMD users have even came out on record stating that the Intel chip could go toe to toe with Shenkoa`s ghetto chip.
If I understood JEDi`s posts at all; I would say all he was looking for was acknowledgement that AMD didn`t own Intel in ALL benchmark applications....
Why can`t AMD people just grow up and understand that AMD doesn`t totally own Intel?
Sure Intel has thrown in the towel when it comes to gaming.
But they haven`t throw in the towel when it comes to other apps.
3--Spoken like a true AMD zealot!!---A 3.2EE OCd to 4 ghz will not "own" a Venice at 2.7 ghz. It'll win some benchmarks and lose others. In the end, the Venice will prove to be the faster CPU, especially for gaming. The 3.2EE will win some encoding benchmarks and some multitasking benchmarks, most likely.

Spoken like a true intel fantroll.

If you were observant enough to actually look before you post, you would see that he did post some benchies, yet I have seen zero from JEDI yet.

And hm. 2.7 GHz is faster than an FX-55, less cache granted, but that is more than made up for the the higher FSB. Depending on where its at, it could be almost as fast as an FX-57 depending on the app. LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL! if you think even a 4.0EE can take on something like that. Not to mention cooling, price, etc.

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Markfw900
First, that benchmark doesn't even have many of todays cpus' on it. Next we all know toms is biased. Let your friend think what he wants, and laugh at him as your san diego kicks his but !

:thumbsup: