WTH, Billy Graham's son calls Islam 'wicked and violent'

[syzygy]

of all people, billy graham's son !?! this family is suppose to be the paragon of christian humility, compassion,
understanding, and forgivance. apparently not though. i wonder if this christian preacher ever read the verses
to his own holy book ! perhaps he skipped over the reams of passages that describe divine retribution against
the bible's 'infidels'.

beliefnet news story

here's the short story in case you can't link to beleif net:


<< President Bush is distancing himself from Franklin Graham after the preacher and close ally of the Bush family
recently called Islam "wicked and violent." According to "NBC News," Graham reiterated his comments Friday, the
first day of Ramadan, the holiest season of the Muslim year. >>




<< Speaking after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Graham had commented, "I don't believe this is a wonderful, peaceful
religion." The president of Samaritan's Purse, a Christian relief agency, added: "When you read the Koran and you read
the verses from the Koran, it instructs the killing of the infidel, for those that are non-Muslim." >>




<< "NBC News" reported Friday that when asked to clarify his statement, Graham repeated his charge that Islam, as a
whole, was evil. "It wasn't Methodists flying into those buildings, it wasn't Lutherans," he said. "It was an attack on this
country by people of the Islamic faith." >>




<< However, the White House disagreed with Graham's remarks, saying the president "views Islam as a religion that
preaches peace," and that the terrorists do not represent what Islam teaches. "NBC News" said the Bush administration
"continues to be careful about hat it says concerning the religion of Osama bin Laden." >>




<< Meanwhile, according to "The (London) Daily Telegraph," President Bush--eager to improve America's reputation in the
Muslim world--was today due to welcome 50 ambassadors from Islamic countries for a traditional meal and prayer at the
White House to mark Ramadan. >>




<< It is believed to be the first time that Muslims were to participate in a formal ceremony in the official home of American
presidents. In another unprecedented event, the Muslim chaplain of Georgetown University last week officiated at the
opening prayers of the House of Representatives on Capitol Hill, the "Telegraph" reported. >>




<< But it is Graham's "very harsh words for the Muslim faith" that is causing the most negative attention for the Bush
administration, "NBC News" said. "A presidential friend and supporter now finds himself at odds with both the Muslim
world and the message from the White House," "NBC News" observed. >>




<< The son of Billy Graham and the designated successor of the longtime evangelist's ministry, Graham is considered
one of America's most powerful Christian leaders. He delivered the benediction at Bush's inauguration and his father
has counseled a long list of presidents. "But now Franklin is in trouble with political friends for comments made recently,
calling the entire Islamic religion "wicked, violent and not of the same God." "NBC News" said. "There is fallout from such
remarks [initially] made last month." >>




<< Following the NBC report, Graham said at the weekend: "It is not my primary calling to analyze Islam or any other
religions, though I recognize that all religions have differences. In the past, I have expressed my concerns about the
teachings of Islam regarding the treatment of women and the killing of non-Muslims, or 'infidels.'" He said that he did
not intend to comment further. >>

 

[Dually]

That man is insane.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ummm, where does Christ say its ok to kill unbelievers? I missed that one. Islam allows its followers to kill infidels. And they did. Perhaps someone can show me that the Koran does not have a passage that allows that. The translations I have found indicate they can. So if I am wrong, correct me. But gotta have references. Oh and how many Muslim leaders have come out and said that Islam forbids the killing of infidels. Oh and where did the word and meaning of infidels come from anyway. Flame if you must, but hopefully someone can answer intelligently.

 

[glen]

Is it not both revengeful and sexist?

 

[ericb]

The man has the right to his opinion. His belief also supports his opinion. Do you honestly think there aren't thousands of Islamic clerics and faithful believers denouncing Christianity daily?

 

[Nitemare]

That's organized religion for you...

He later corrected himself and said that he only mean't the leaders not the whole nation of Islam..for their treatment of women and their *cough* condemnation of other religions

 

[jjones]

all religions should be persecuted equally.

 

[damocles]

Large parts of the Bible can, and have, been interpreted in less than peaceful ways. The Crusades and Spanish Inquisition weren't exactly a festival of love. These religious books are very old and can no longer be interpreted literally, take out of them what you will. As a whole Islam is an extremely peaceful religion, there are 100s of millions of Muslims and you can't judge the whole based on the actions of a small %

 

[Lucky]

<< Ummm, where does Christ say its ok to kill unbelievers? I missed that one. Islam allows its followers to kill infidels. And they did. Perhaps someone can show me that the Koran does not have a passage that allows that. The translations I have found indicate they can. So if I am wrong, correct me. But gotta have references. Oh and how many Muslim leaders have come out and said that Islam forbids the killing of infidels. Oh and where did the word and meaning of infidels come from anyway. Flame if you must, but hopefully someone can answer intelligently. >>

]


LOL, so we should assume that whatever you say is the absolute truth, but if we want to challenge it, we "gotta have references"? LOL.

The crap you spew has been hashed and re-hashed here. Many, many muslim leaders have come out against it, and yes, the bible does advocate violence. Me and others have documented this in threads here. And if Im wrong, then correct me. But you gotta have references!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

References? Sure. Look in the New Testiment. You will not find an example of Christ advocating the killing of Romans for example. Yes, in the Old Testament, there was plenty of war. That was before Christ. Please don't take my word for it. I don't want you to. And I certainly don't want to "convert" you. I am in no way a Christian apologist. I just hear claims for things that "everybody knows" and yet fail to demonstrate. I've done my research, and I find that the Koran allows the killing if infidels. You can look it up or not, but if you take my word or not without checking for yourself, your opinion is totally unencumbered by data. I frankly don't give a rats behind if you do. Now I'll make it easy for those who have difficulty with this concept.

1) Does Christ advocate killing?

2) Does the Koran?

Hopefully someone can respond to the point. Perhaps you don't give a rats behind either. I just like to play devils advocate on occasion and start people thinking and looking things up for themselves.

 

[glen]

Is anyone going to dispute that Islam is both Sexist and Revengeful?

 

[Bulk Beef]

<< Oh and where did the word and meaning of infidels come from anyway. >>


In"fi*del (?), a. [L. infidelis; pref. in- not + fidelis faithful, fr. fides faith: cf. F. infid\'8ale. See Fidelity.] Not holding the faith; -- applied esp. to one who does not believe in the inspiration of the Scriptures, and the supernatural origin of Christianity.

To answer your question.

 

[Lucky]

<<

<< Oh and where did the word and meaning of infidels come from anyway. >>


In"fi*del (?), a. [L. infidelis; pref. in- not + fidelis faithful, fr. fides faith: cf. F. infid\'8ale. See Fidelity.] Not holding the faith; -- applied esp. to one who does not believe in the inspiration of the Scriptures, and the supernatural origin of Christianity.

To answer your question. >>




heh, thats quite ironic.

 

[yllus]

<< Is anyone going to dispute that Islam is both Sexist and Revengeful? >>


Of course. To put it all in context, I often think of the part of the world that Islam is most prevalent in as 60-90 years behind the West in terms of politics and various aspects culture including the rights of women. Religion is just played as another card to keep women down...1910s suffrage in America/Canada sound familiar to anyone?

The Quran, which is based on the teachers of Muhammad (the Last Prophet) says:

"Heaven is at the feet of mothers"
"The best of you are the kindest to their wives and I am the best to mine"
"Women are the sibling of men"

Chastity of women is grossly overexaggerated by the backwards, zealot-like religious leaders commonplace in the Third World. Classical Islamic empires have been quite tolerant of both non-Muslims and women alike. You know how religion tends to florish in times of hardship as the people look to there being something more to life than hardship? That's what inspires the zealotry of these people in a nutshell.

Revengeful? You'd need to clarify what this means before a response could be given.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Main Entry: <B>in.fi.del
</B><B>Pronunciation: </B>'in-f&-d[^&]l, -f&-"del
<B>Function:</B> <I>noun
</I><B>Etymology: </B>Middle English infidele, from Middle French, from Late Latin infidelis unbelieving, from Latin, unfaithful, from in- + fidelis faithful -- more at FIDELITY
<B>Date: </B>15th century
1 : one who is not a Christian or who opposes Christianity
2 a : an unbeliever with respect to a particular religion b : one who acknowledges no religious belief
3 : a disbeliever in something specified or understood
- infidel adjective
<!--Begin dict_temp_2-->

An answer! Progress. Oh yes and I agree it is ironic. A word apparently co-opted and used in translation of arabic texts. Now we know something.

 

[Xomon]

Most people equate Islam to Wahabism which is in essence "wicked and violent". Islam by itself is not, but it's a totally flawed religion at it's best.

Also, please remember that before Mohammed the people that would become "Muslims" worshiped the moon.

 

[yllus]

<< 1) Does Christ advocate killing?

2) Does the Koran? >>


That would be an answerable question if it was equal in its asking. Again - the Quran is essentially the teachings and life of Prophet Muhammad. I guess I don't expect you to be all that well-informed about his life but it was one of relative humility and definite pacifism...it's written that he never rose a fist in anger in his life. If you asked the question: "Does Christ advocate killing? Does Muhammad?" I suppose other than quarrelling with the definition of 'advocating' you'd answer in the negative.

 

[Jzero]

<< Is anyone going to dispute that Islam is both Sexist and Revengeful? >>



I'll see your sexism and raise you an....
I dunno what I'll raise you

But perceived sexism in Islam is often (surprise, surprise!) the gross misinterpretation of Quranic verses.
For instance, while the Quran allows for men to have 4 wives, polygamy is discouraged unless the husband can equally distribute his love. The Prophet himself only had 1 wife and it should be noted that she was a very wealthy and successful buisnesswoman.
With respect to women wearing veils/burqa, the Quran recommends they dress modestly. In some Islamic countries women are treated the way the Taliban does. In other countries, like Egypt, for example, veils are NOT required by Islamic law. In fact, in many Islamic nations women wear veils voluntarily as a sign of their faith.
Common African practice of female genital mutilation is never mentioned in the Quran. It has simply existed for many hundreds of years as a tribal rite, predating Islam in those areas.

Those are just a few examples.

 

[Bulk Beef]

<< An answer! Progress. Oh yes and I agree it is ironic. A word apparently co-opted and used in translation of arabic texts. Now we know something. >>


Hey man, you asked. You're actually going to try and twist the answer into what you were so obviously looking for? That's weak.

 

[glen]

Did Jesus carry a sword?

 

[CrazyRyan]

Lets see if western religion is to blame for genocide hmm lets check the super computer

SC:\ cross reference western religion/genocide

searching...............

too many results to list.

would you like to view a list of examples. yes

england/crusades heretic burnings ect thousands killed

spain/ inquision thousands of jewish and non believers killed

germany/ holocaust millions of jewish and eastern natives killed. explanation nazi's worship a earthly
human god figure example adolf hitler

SC:\explain religion

processing...........done

Religion is a example of human inferiority. elaborate

Fear ignorance low mental capacity. all humans?

No not all humans require magical explanations a small percentage of the earths human population
have Intelligence

SC:\explain meaning of life

processing.........error please call microsoft for 5000000.000000$ software upgrade

 

[drewshin]

?If thou shalt hear say . . . Certain men . . . saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword? (Deuteronomy 13:12-15). ?That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman? (2 Chronicles 15:13).

it sounds like the bible does talk about killing nonbelievers. granted it's the old testament like someone commented previously, but it's still in there, and could interpreted by some fanatic as "the word of God", just as obl has done.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The common usage for infidel is applied to non believers of Islam. Obviously from what you posted it could be applied to myself too, if I take an agnostic stance. Should I say otherwise? You are thinking and responding to questions. That's what I wanted. Like I said I am no Christian apologist, but I am afraid that I myself strayed from the topic as posted, and there I apologise for my unclarity. I know a lot of things are done that are wrong in the name of religion. I didn't bring Christianity into this. It is in the first post. Grahm claims that Islam, as written in the Koran allows the killing of infidels. I believe this is so, based on my reading. I also cannot find an example of Christ advocating a jihad. If I am wrong, I am an adult, and am willing to be educated.

 

[Jzero]

<< Religion is a example of human inferiority. elaborate

Fear ignorance low mental capacity. all humans?

No not all humans require magical explanations a small percentage of the earths human population
have Intelligence >>



If fear, ignorance and low mental capacity is a prerequisite for being religious, you are clearly the high priest of your own church.
Clever post full of ignorance and stupidity. I wish I was as smart as you.
Of course what else would I expect from any "computer" that uses \ as it's prompt and not % ?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

CrazyRyan

Your point is well taken. I would agree (as I have said in my last post) that much wrong has been done in the name of religion. Now, where does Christ advocate this? Fact is people throughout history like to kill. Religion can be a convient means to justify that lust for death. A statement that religion is to blame for that is overbroad though. Look at athiest states. While checking the supercomp, see how many people were killed ethnic cleansings, and during the purges of Stallin and Mao. Lets not forget the Khymer Rouge. No, we don't need to blame anything but ourselves. We as a species love to kill each other for a variety of excuses.