WTF - U.S. company patent stops breast cancer testing in Canada.

[Phuz]

Are you typical of the average Canadian?

You're a good thread crapper. Just keep bitching...
I'll ask this: what the hell is your problem?

You obviously only started going into this thread to argue. You don't care about the issue.. You just saw the oportunity to TRY and prove someone wrong. You're idea of intelligent information is whatever you can find on google that even remotely pertains to the topic...

 

[dolph]

myriad does hold the patent on that gene, as well as several others, because they found it and discovered what it did first. it falls under intellectual property, and it's a very big ethical issue in biology.

please understand the "bad guy's" side before saying "no one can patent my genes." you may be right, but be clear on both sides of the argument first.

 

[charrison]

Lets talk about the effect of private industry on gene mapping. The US Goverment started out trying to map the human genome. It was planned to be a multi-decade project until private industry got involved. When private industry got involved the gene mapping process got much faster. Private industry even though they started later, they finished well ahead of the US govt project. Much of human genome is available because of the goverment work. You can download and do stuff with it. But it has been industry that has it published on CD with bio-informatic tools.

Had it not been for industry this test would not be available today at any cost. It might not have existed for another 10 or 15 years. Be thankful you have self interested companies trying to develope products to make your life better.

 

[gotsmack]

Originally posted by: Valinos
What stops the Canadians from just waving the finger at Myriad? They aren't under U.S. jurisdiction, so screw 'em. Patenting genes is BS anyway.

I think the enforcement has something to do with international trade sanctions. could be against the rules for WTO or NAFTA, but don't quote me on that.

 

[gotsmack]

Originally posted by: Phuz
News Link

Since when is cancer research about patents and money?
Because this company decided to inforce this patent, "Myriad now wants $3,500 US for the blood test, three times what it used to cost the province."

Obviously this company feels that, as in the sates, this kind of care should only be available to the very wealthy?

Yeah, lets stop the world from find a cancer cure... GOOD WORK!

Myriad now wants $3,500 US for the blood test


Ignoring the whole gene thing, it looks like Myriad is just enforcing the patent on the blood test. I don't see any problem with that. they developed the test at great cost and they want to protect their investemnt. They charge a fortune because they have other tests that flopped and they have to charge lots for the successful ones to stay in business.


and lets be reasonable. If there were no patent laws, then what incentive is there to invent stuff? I'm sure there are people who would do it just to advance the human race but where are they going to get the funding to do the research?

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: charrison
Lets talk about the effect of private industry on gene mapping. The US Goverment started out trying to map the human genome. It was planned to be a multi-decade project until private industry got involved. When private industry got involved the gene mapping process got much faster. Private industry even though they started later, they finished well ahead of the US govt project. Much of human genome is available because of the goverment work. You can download and do stuff with it. But it has been industry that has it published on CD with bio-informatic tools.

Had it not been for industry this test would not be available today at any cost. It might not have existed for another 10 or 15 years. Be thankful you have self interested companies trying to develope products to make your life better.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't both the private and public genome projects get done at virtually the same time?

Edit: Yep, here we go. Both finish

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: charrison
Lets talk about the effect of private industry on gene mapping. The US Goverment started out trying to map the human genome. It was planned to be a multi-decade project until private industry got involved. When private industry got involved the gene mapping process got much faster. Private industry even though they started later, they finished well ahead of the US govt project. Much of human genome is available because of the goverment work. You can download and do stuff with it. But it has been industry that has it published on CD with bio-informatic tools.

Had it not been for industry this test would not be available today at any cost. It might not have existed for another 10 or 15 years. Be thankful you have self interested companies trying to develope products to make your life better.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't both the private and public genome projects get done at virtually the same time?

Edit: Yep, here we go. Both finish

Yes they finish at about the same time, however it was Celera and a couple other companies that drove each other to finish first. If it was just the goverment project, it would not have happened as quickly. The goverment project did benefit from billions of venture capital and research moneys from the others research.

 

[Ornery]

"I'm breathlessly waiting for you to explain how the discovery of the jet engine..."

Whittle still patented his "turbojet engine" in 1930 The bastard!

"...radio..."

In 1886 Guglielmo Marconi obtained his first patent, which he presented to the italian government of that time The worm!

"Television..."

Farnsworth applied for a patent for his image dissector in 1927. What an SOB!

"Pennicilin..."

Could Patents have Sped Penicillin Development?

"...and others..."

Robert S. Ledley was granted patent #3,922,552 on November 25th in 1975 for a "diagnostic X-ray systems" also known as CAT-Scans.

"...regardless of how you look at it, might be beneficial for a small group of people, but in the long run, is a BAD policy."

Oh really? Ball's in YOUR court... prove it! Got links?


"You're a good thread crapper. Just keep bitching...
I'll ask this: what the hell is your problem?

You obviously only started going into this thread to argue. You don't care about the issue.."

"WTF - U.S. company patent stops breast cancer testing in Canada."

YOU wanted to know WTF! I'm TELLING you WTF! Is there one GD thing I posted that isn't true?
I'll ask this: what the hell is your problem?

 

[Iwentsouth]

Canadian Patents Database


Seems like Candians like to patent genes. Then complain when Americans do the same.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Got any rabies shot lately? what's with all the name calling and the bad language?

The jet engine was invented in 1910
(hint: read history more, rather than just look for commercial patents on the internet)

The point is, "some" people don't apply for patents necessarily because they want to extract money from them. Most of the pioneers only wanted recognition - their name attached to their invention. Do you have any idea how much money Marconi got out of his "radio-telegraphy" ?

They did their stuff for the sake of science, not money, like the corporations do nowadays. They just wanted the world to know "who did it." Besides which, at the rate at which people were studying and inventing stuff, if your name was not attached to it today, someon else would take the frosting off the cake tomorrow. That was the case with pennicillin and insulin, which were being developed by other scientists as well.

And to come back to our little subject, I personally believe you should thank your lucky stars that you're not a woman and that you don't have a history of breast cancer in your family. Because your cock-ish attitude would then melt sooner than dirty snow in May... Have a nice life, check out my sig.

 

[Ornery]

"...Besides which, at the rate at which people were studying and inventing stuff, if your name was not attached to it today, someon else would take the frosting off the cake tomorrow. That was the case with pennicillin and insulin, which were being developed by other scientists as well."

BINGO. Neither could Myriad let this successful outcome slip by without reward, either. They specifically went into this "business" to make money. They came up with the goods where others have failed. It's BUSINESS. It got results! Proof is right there!

Our civilization revolves around industry and business. The uncivilized areas of the world probably live in a "takes a village" mode that you would prefer, but I'll take this "dog eat dog", modern society over their meager existence any day!

"And to come back to our little subject, I personally believe you should thank your lucky stars that you're not a woman and that you don't have a history of breast cancer in your family."

The subject is NOT cancer. The subject is why the Canadian health care system doesn't want to pay the fees for these tests. Phuz brought this on himself with his rant against the US and the patent system.

"Obviously this company feels that, as in the sates, this kind of care should only be available to the very wealthy?

Yeah, lets stop the world from find a cancer cure... GOOD WORK! "

IMO, it's people like you who are going to put the brakes on finding the cure, by taking away the incentive for the private sector to do this research. Pretty ironic, eh?

 

[Corn]

Personally, if I'd be endowed with the money that a court recently awarded in the tobacco lawsuit - was it 28 billion? - I'd keep a few million for myself, and spend the rest for something that the whole world would benefit, like fusion.

And I'd give it away for free!

....yes, I'm probably a "leftie", "Pinko", "stupid Canuck", "idealist"... but I prefer being myself than in Ornery's boots. Heil!

Bwahahahahah!!!!!!!!

AnitaPeterson in all her benevolence would only keep a few million for herself, the rest would be used for good, she promises!!!

Please allow me to roll my eyes for a moment or two.

Heil!

 

[smp]

I see it as a social problem.

and lets be reasonable. If there were no patent laws, then what incentive is there to invent stuff? I'm sure there are people who would do it just to advance the human race but where are they going to get the funding to do the research?

What was the point of advancing the human race again?

It seems that yeah, you need money to get things done, it wasn't supposed to be the original incentive though.
Isn't the incentive for any of this stuff supposed to be the advancement of the human race?
When did it shift to profit?
Oh yeah, capitalism, right, that thing that saved humanity.
It seems that people are lazy worthless sacks, and that without a paycheck, would probably just die of self neglect. I wouldn't take care of myself unless someone was paying me. This makes perfect sense now. I refuse to survive, unless I can make a profit off of it.

Yeah, it is the WTO, to answer someone's legal question up there. Myriad is gonna come after the Ontario govn under the NAFTA and WTO courts .. (where do these people come from? The judges and juries of the NAFTA and WTO courts? The world court? Who elected/nominated/appointed these people?)

There was a case a little while back about a U.S fuel company, or chemical company that was making this stuff called MMT...
found it. More info can be had if you do a google search, I mean, if an environmentalist paper is too biased for you.

 

[gotsmack]

Originally posted by: smp
I see it as a social problem.

and lets be reasonable. If there were no patent laws, then what incentive is there to invent stuff? I'm sure there are people who would do it just to advance the human race but where are they going to get the funding to do the research?

What was the point of advancing the human race again?

It seems that yeah, you need money to get things done, it wasn't supposed to be the original incentive though.
Isn't the incentive for any of this stuff supposed to be the advancement of the human race?
When did it shift to profit?
Oh yeah, capitalism, right, that thing that saved humanity.
It seems that people are lazy worthless sacks, and that without a paycheck, would probably just die of self neglect. I wouldn't take care of myself unless someone was paying me. This makes perfect sense now. I refuse to survive, unless I can make a profit off of it.

</A>

No its not saying people are lazy, it's saying people are selfish and maybe greedy.

I admit that I am greedy and selfish. I look out for myself first, then if I have any desire I'd help my immediate community. the rest of the world be damned. if you care so much about beople in general then pick up the homeless off the street and let them live with you for free.

I am not the type of person who shares the fruits of my labor without just compensation.

there's a point where you're not being generous, you're being taken advantage of.

 

[Ornery]

"It seems that people are lazy worthless sacks, and that without a paycheck, would probably just die of self neglect. I wouldn't take care of myself unless someone was paying me. This makes perfect sense now. I refuse to survive, unless I can make a profit off of it."

Just for sh|ts and giggles, how do you feel about the need for labor unions? Why do we need 'em? Why even work for "the man"? Why not just live like your brothers in the rest of the world? They should be developing a test for the susceptibility to cancer in... oh... a few hundred years or so.

 

[FettsBabe]

Horrible. Companies that promote that type of business can kiss my cute butt :|

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Got any rabies shot lately? what's with all the name calling and the bad language?

The jet engine was invented in 1910
(hint: read history more, rather than just look for commercial patents on the internet)

The point is, "some" people don't apply for patents necessarily because they want to extract money from them. Most of the pioneers only wanted recognition - their name attached to their invention. Do you have any idea how much money Marconi got out of his "radio-telegraphy" ?

They did their stuff for the sake of science, not money, like the corporations do nowadays. They just wanted the world to know "who did it." Besides which, at the rate at which people were studying and inventing stuff, if your name was not attached to it today, someon else would take the frosting off the cake tomorrow. That was the case with pennicillin and insulin, which were being developed by other scientists as well.

And to come back to our little subject, I personally believe you should thank your lucky stars that you're not a woman and that you don't have a history of breast cancer in your family. Because your cock-ish attitude would then melt sooner than dirty snow in May... Have a nice life, check out my sig.

The poor guy could not get funding to do much more with the jet he invented and so not much more was done for 30 years. If he was truely altruistic, he would have continues work on it, but i guess he had to eat.

Actually WWII was the case for Penicillin. This was invention that had been sitting around for 30 or so years. It was until WWII was there funding to find out how to mass produce it. Had the original person that been altruistic as well, they would have continued working on it, till it was a viable product. But I guess they had to eat as well. See a pattern developing here?


And now onto breast cancer. Men can get breast cancer, rare but it does happen. Men can also get other cancers that are only related to the male gender. So take your only women are cancer risks attitude and do something with it.

So the real question is, Why is Anita so pissed off about this?

Would she be mad if a Canadian company patented this?
Would she be mad if the great Canadian Medical services covered it?
Is she mad because the test is not free?
What does she think a fair and equitable price is? Does she even know the research cost/market size?
Is she glad that such a test exists?

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Originally posted by: Phuz
News Link

Since when is cancer research about patents and money?
Because this company decided to inforce this patent, "Myriad now wants $3,500 US for the blood test, three times what it used to cost the province."

Obviously this company feels that, as in the sates, this kind of care should only be available to the very wealthy?

Yeah, lets stop the world from find a cancer cure... GOOD WORK!

How about we put Myriad in touch with Methanex and let them argue over good will causes vs. monetary gain?

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

They patented a TEST! Without their test, these Canadian women would have nothing instead:

No they actually patented a gene sequence, several of them, in fact.

But like Kamisky said, "Now we have the tests, and to deny women access based on cost is just so inappropriate..."

So she must be talking about the government's refusal to pay for the test, right? Since it is the government who refuses to pay for the test and thus "deny women access based on cost" that she finds so intolerable. I mean Canadian socialist medicine is so damned great and all that everyone should have it, why aren't they paying for it?

Everyone believes they are entitled to million dollar health care but they only want to pay a hundred bucks for it. Nobody bats an eye about going to Best Buy and dropping $3,500 on a wide-screen television, but not for a test that could save your life, OH THE HUMANITY, those evil greedy medical research companies have the nerve to charge for their innovations...oops gotta go now, the delivery guys are here to install my $6,000 hot tub.

I'm with Tcsenter on this one. Kinda looks like the BC government is the bad guy here more than Myriad. Looks to me like they want the US companies like Myriad to waive their patent royaties which in effect would be subsidizing the test. So how is Myriad supposed to recover their research costs and be able to realize a fair profit for their research? Well they could do exactly what all the major drug companies do. Grossly overcharge in the US to compensate for what the BC government basically wants for free. In effect shifting the burden of subsidizing this test to US consumers just as is done with prescription drugs. Drug companies charge hundreds of times more for identical drugs in the US than they do in Canada basically forcing the US market to subsidize the Canadian market. Apparently Myriad is keeping it straight up and not playing a similar game.

 

[ed21x]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

Originally posted by: Ornery
Almost ALL of our progress this past century has been the result of Capitalism set loose. Even NASA is dependent on private companies to a large extent. Science, medicine, software, transportation... you name it. If you clowns on the left would quit holding everything back, who knows, maybe we'd have a cure for cancer by now!

Well since I am not on the left, I assume you are not talking to me. Nevertheless, tell me about c. elegans. Tell me what you know about developmental biology. Tell me what you know about cellular theories on cancer. Tell me what do you think corporate american research builds on? Think they start from scratch? I never said that corporations do not do important research, but thinking that they are responsible for all important scientific discoveries is asinine.

Here in Berkeley, corporate sponsorship to do research is the bread and butter of the engineering department's profits. Without the bling, none of this would ever happen.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt

Originally posted by: Phuz
News Link

Since when is cancer research about patents and money?
Because this company decided to inforce this patent, "Myriad now wants $3,500 US for the blood test, three times what it used to cost the province."

Obviously this company feels that, as in the sates, this kind of care should only be available to the very wealthy?

Yeah, lets stop the world from find a cancer cure... GOOD WORK!

How about we put Myriad in touch with Methanex and let them argue over good will causes vs. monetary gain?

A couple years eatlier, a US based company threatened to sue the Canadian government, the issue was also about a gasoline additive which the government wanted to ban on environmental concerns.