WTF? [Riding] Lawn mower trouble

[dmurray14]

Ok now I'm pissed...for a while, when I started the lawn mower, it would make like a rattling sound as the engine started. Once I let go of the ignition it was fine, and ran beautifully. Now, the engine won't even start. It just makes a horrible high-pitched rattling noise and the engine crank barely spins (judging by the "turbine" or whatever the hell it is on the top). What could be going wrong? I can go out and record a sound file of what it sounds like tomorrow if that would be of any help. Its a Murray ride-on by the way (yeah i know, my last name!). Thanks for the help...

Dan

 

[Ladies Man]

starter isn't in the proper spot and is spinning freely instead of actually hitting the gear to start the motor

 

[Ornery]

I'll take a st@b at it, but I may be way off. It sounds like you're talking about the recoil start? It's not engaging the teeth on the flywheel? Yours doesn't have electric start, right? When you pull the rope to start it, it just rattles? If I got that right, you'll have to pull the cowl off and clean out the recoil assembly. It's probably full of dust and grass. Once it's cleaned and lubed, it should work OK.

Edit: Oops, looks like you can pull the recoil assembly right off the cowl.

PM Eli, he'll know that engine I bet.

 

[308nato]

Pull the starter off and see if it spins freely. If the starter doesn't tell you its in pain, check the fan/flywheel "turbine" for a ton of grass, leaves and mouse nests which have it bound up.

Its either a bad starter or the fan housing is full of crap stuck to old mucky grease. I will leave the part about the motor being slightly seized out since its so late.

 

[JC]

Sounds like the starter gear, or the starter itself. Pull it off and have a look.

 

[Ornery]

Hell, if that's electric start, it may be the battery doesn't have enough gumption to throw the solenoid of the starter into the flywheel, so it's not fully engaged. What happens if you jump start it?

 

[JC]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Hell, if that's electric start, it may be the battery doesn't have enough gumption to throw the solenoid of the starter into the flywheel, so it's not fully engaged.

Hmm? Most small engine starters I've seen only use the solenoid to kick on the starter motor, the gear rides on a spiral spline on the starter motor shaft. When the starter motor spins, inertia sends the starter gear up the spiral to engage the flywheel gear.

 

[cavemanmoron]

is the oil full?

 

[Cyberian]

Originally posted by: JC

Originally posted by: Ornery
Hell, if that's electric start, it may be the battery doesn't have enough gumption to throw the solenoid of the starter into the flywheel, so it's not fully engaged.

Hmm? Most small engine starters I've seen only use the solenoid to kick on the starter motor, the gear rides on a spiral spline on the starter motor shaft. When the starter motor spins, inertia sends the starter gear up the spiral to engage the flywheel gear.

Haha, like a Bendix drive??

Many older cars used to use the same system.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: JC

Originally posted by: Ornery
Hell, if that's electric start, it may be the battery doesn't have enough gumption to throw the solenoid of the starter into the flywheel, so it's not fully engaged.

Hmm? Most small engine starters I've seen only use the solenoid to kick on the starter motor, the gear rides on a spiral spline on the starter motor shaft. When the starter motor spins, inertia sends the starter gear up the spiral to engage the flywheel gear.

You are correct Sir!
It sounds like the starter teeth are not engaging correctly beucase as 308nato said, the intake is probably full of crap. The flywheel is a favorite plase for rodents to nest.

 

[dmurray14]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: JC

Originally posted by: Ornery
Hell, if that's electric start, it may be the battery doesn't have enough gumption to throw the solenoid of the starter into the flywheel, so it's not fully engaged.

Hmm? Most small engine starters I've seen only use the solenoid to kick on the starter motor, the gear rides on a spiral spline on the starter motor shaft. When the starter motor spins, inertia sends the starter gear up the spiral to engage the flywheel gear.

You are correct Sir!
It sounds like the starter teeth are not engaging correctly beucase as 308nato said, the intake is probably full of crap. The flywheel is a favorite plase for rodents to nest.

This is kind of what I was thinking, but I wasn't able to put a name on it. Before, it sounded like the starter was barely hitting the teeth of another gear or something, and now its just completely missing it. Is there an easy was to reseat it? It's an electric start, BTW.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: dmurray14

Originally posted by: Evadman
This is kind of what I was thinking, but I wasn't able to put a name on it. Before, it sounded like the starter was barely hitting the teeth of another gear or something, and now its just completely missing it. Is there an easy was to reseat it? It's an electric start, BTW.

Thanks,
Dan

The fan shroud (or what is around the "turbine" as you call it) is only held on by 4 bolts, most likely 5/8" ones of the motor is B&S. Just pull it off and have a helper crank the engine. The starter gear should move up the shaft until the teeth are fully engaged with the teeth around the flywheel. If it doesn't, it will become redily apparent what is happening. Heck, the shroud could be dented and the drag being created as the flywheel spins is making it so the motor does not spin fast enough to start (about 50 RPM).

But that shroud has to come off.

 

[Ornery]

"...inertia sends the starter gear up the spiral to engage the flywheel gear."

Got it, inertia. The battery doesn't have enough power to give it that inertia. Try jump starting it. If that works, your battery is low.

 

[dmurray14]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: dmurray14

Originally posted by: Evadman
This is kind of what I was thinking, but I wasn't able to put a name on it. Before, it sounded like the starter was barely hitting the teeth of another gear or something, and now its just completely missing it. Is there an easy was to reseat it? It's an electric start, BTW.

Thanks,
Dan

The fan shroud (or what is around the "turbine" as you call it) is only held on by 4 bolts, most likely 5/8" ones of the motor is B&S. Just pull it off and have a helper crank the engine. The starter gear should move up the shaft until the teeth are fully engaged with the teeth around the flywheel. If it doesn't, it will become redily apparent what is happening. Heck, the shroud could be dented and the drag being created as the flywheel spins is making it so the motor does not spin fast enough to start (about 50 RPM).

But that shroud has to come off.

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

To ornery...it's definitely not the battery, because it has become apparent that the fan (or turbine, lol) is barely spinning when I crank it, but the starter sounds like it has the same amount of power as usual. And when I say barely turning, I dont mean turning slowly, I mean randomly catching then slipping. Thanks, though.

 

[dmurray14]

OK, update...

I took the engine cover off and took a look...

Looks like the starter gear is stripped to hell? Where can I find another starter for this guy? Edit: I would assume it wouldn't be extremely hard to install the new starter, would it? I think I'd have to take the flywheel off, but that doesn't seem like it's too hard.

Thanks.

gear unengaged
unengaged, wide shot
engaged, wide
engaged, close up
pic of engine

 

[Evadman]

You have the same engine I have in my tractor Lemme go look @ my tractor real fast.

 

[Ornery]

You only need the nylon gear an the starter, right? It's a Tecumseh, isn't it? I know Briggs & Stratton has online manuals for thier engines. Tecumseh may do the same. You'll need the model and serial number though.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: Ornery
You only need the nylon gear an the starter, right? It's a Tecumseh, isn't it? I know Briggs & Stratton has online manuals for thier engines. Tecumseh may do the same. You'll need the model and serial number though.

It is a Briggs engine.

*smack*

All you need is the gear. Most small engine places sell it. I can get ya the part number if youget me the tractor model # and the engine model #.

 

[dmurray14]

That would be awesome...thanks. I'll go check...

 

[Zenmervolt]

From your first post it sounded like you kept the key turned after then engine was running...

for a while, when I started the lawn mower, it would make like a rattling sound as the engine started. Once I let go of the ignition it was fine

If I'm mis-interpreting, I'm sorry, but it sounds as though you may have ground a few teeth off of the starter or the ring gear.

ZV

EDIT: I swear that I didn't look at those pictures before I made the diagnosis.

 

[Ornery]

Confused me too. At this point I think he's on the right track, unless the engine is seized up. That's why it would be nice to have a recoil backup. I'm pretty sure they use nylon for the starter's gear, so it won't destroy the ring gear.

Edit: Yikes, I didn't see those pics at all! That ain't nylon, but it sure is destroyed! Holy crap.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Confused me too. At this point I think he's on the right track, unless the engine is seized up. That's why it would be nice to have a recoil backup. I'm pretty sure they use nylon for the starter's gear, so it won't destroy the ring gear.

it is steel.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: Ornery
Confused me too. At this point I think he's on the right track, unless the engine is seized up. That's why it would be nice to have a recoil backup. I'm pretty sure they use nylon for the starter's gear, so it won't destroy the ring gear.

it is steel.

Well, not really steel, I'd call it junk metal, or "pot metal". It's definitely metal, just not strong metal.

ZV

 

[dmurray14]

Zenmervolt....no, I didn't keep the key turned while I had the engine on! Haha, i'm not THAT stupid! What I was saying was that if I turned the igintion for long enough the engine would start up. Looks like it might have been catching what was left of a few teeth, enough to get it started. But now, there's nothing left!

Evadman...I got the info...

The tractor is a Murray, model no 42591X8B

Engine:
Briggs model # 42A707
type 2653 E1
code 9908095A

thanks for the help!

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: dmurray14
Zenmervolt....no, I didn't keep the key turned while I had the engine on! Haha, i'm not THAT stupid! What I was saying was that if I turned the igintion for long enough the engine would start up. Looks like it might have been catching what was left of a few teeth, enough to get it started. But now, there's nothing left!

Always worth covering all the bases. I figured that I had just mis-read that, but it was still worth checking.

ZV