WTF, Japan's Prime Minister is to honor war criminals?

[AndyHui]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: AndyHui

i thought that part of the terms of surrender was that the emperor would be unharmed. i could be wrong though.

As a culture, Japan would have effectively undergone a total collapse if the Emperor was executed. There is no excuse for what occured during the war, but leaving the Emperor alive allowed the Japanese nation to move on, and save a little face.
With the head of state gone, I believe that Japan would never have recovered as a viable nation.

That's the problem. Japan was allowed to move on, without facing what they have done. Emperor should have been hanged, and if the culture collapsed, it would rebuild anew, cleansed of this scum. Germany rebuilt after Hitler, and Japan would be no different.

I disagree. Eastern thinking is very different from Western thinking. My point is that Japan WOULD NOT have rebuilt after the Emperor was gone. The blow to morale would have been so bad that none of the Japanese would have any will to go on.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: AndyHui

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: AndyHui

i thought that part of the terms of surrender was that the emperor would be unharmed. i could be wrong though.

As a culture, Japan would have effectively undergone a total collapse if the Emperor was executed. There is no excuse for what occured during the war, but leaving the Emperor alive allowed the Japanese nation to move on, and save a little face.
With the head of state gone, I believe that Japan would never have recovered as a viable nation.

That's the problem. Japan was allowed to move on, without facing what they have done. Emperor should have been hanged, and if the culture collapsed, it would rebuild anew, cleansed of this scum. Germany rebuilt after Hitler, and Japan would be no different.

I disagree. Eastern thinking is very different from Western thinking. My point is that Japan WOULD NOT have rebuilt after the Emperor was gone. The blow to morale would have been so bad that none of the Japanese would have any will to go on.

Look, that's their problem. The point is, the emperor should have been hanged. If Japan would have rebuilt or not is secondary. I am sick of them playing victim.

 

[AndyHui]

Look, that's their problem. The point is, the emperor should have been hanged. If Japan would have rebuilt or not is secondary. I am sick of them playing victim.

So Japan, as a nation, culture and race, deserved to be absolutely crushed into oblivion, beyond recovery, even after having two atomic bombs dropped on civilians?

I make no excuses for what the Japanese Armies did, but do you think the world as it is today would be a better place without them?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
I think there is a feeling in the East Germany that they were somehow victimized because they had to drive Ladas instead of BMW's or something for 45 years. But if you consider that Germans killed 20+ Million in USSR, they should be happy there were any people left in Germany.

The people in East Germany expected it all to change once East and West were reunited. They expected to be rich, and drive BMWs too. Then they met the harsh reality, with huge unemployment numbers and poverty. And rather than doing something themselves about it they whine about refugees being allowed in Germany, or even Germans with a different skin colour or religion, who were born and raised in Germany too.

 

[JMaster]

Well, this is only going to provoke N Korea to attack Japan more.

 

[JMaster]

Originally posted by: AndyHui

Look, that's their problem. The point is, the emperor should have been hanged. If Japan would have rebuilt or not is secondary. I am sick of them playing victim.

So Japan, as a nation, culture and race, deserved to be absolutely crushed into oblivion, beyond recovery, even after having two atomic bombs dropped on civilians?

I make no excuses for what the Japanese Armies did, but do you think the world as it is today would be a better place without them?

Um for one, there wouldn't be a North and South Korea. Also, there wouldn't be so much bitterness between the Koreas and Chinese against the Japanese. So yes, the world as it is today WOULD be a better place without them. Culture? Ha! You know Japan has the highest rate of child rape and child pornography in the world? But offenders only get a slap on the wrist. In fact, it's VERY common (I have a friend who was raised in Japan) for Japanese businessmen to have relations with adolescent girls for money. I can go on and on but I won't.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: JMaster
Well, this is only going to provoke N Korea to attack Japan more.

Doubt they will. It will make the situation there more 'interesting' though, as Japan is on the same side as the US in the situation with North Korea. Will Bush back Japan in this matter, North Korea, or wisely try to avoid getting involved?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: AndyHui

Look, that's their problem. The point is, the emperor should have been hanged. If Japan would have rebuilt or not is secondary. I am sick of them playing victim.

So Japan, as a nation, culture and race, deserved to be absolutely crushed into oblivion, beyond recovery, even after having two atomic bombs dropped on civilians?
I make no excuses for what the Japanese Armies did, but do you think the world as it is today would be a better place without them?

If Japanese culture is so weak that it could not withstand death of a murderous thug scumbag emperor, than yes it deserved to be crushed into oblivion. And if they still do not want to accept responsibility for what their country did, they still deserve it.
Too many people were killed to let this one man live unscaved. It's one of the greatest injustices ever.

 

[bolido2000]

Why the surprise? They've been doing this for the past 50 years.

 

[JMaster]

Skyclad, did you know that N Korea launches test missiles that often lands right off the coast of Japan? I think it's a message. Is it a coincidence that Japan gives more monetary aid and food to N Korea than any other country? Even more than S Korea does!

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: JMaster
Skyclad, did you know that N Korea launches test missiles that often lands right off the coast of Japan? I think it's a message. Is it a coincidence that Japan gives more monetary aid and food to N Korea than any other country? Even more than S Korea does!

But attacking would be suicide. Bush would immediately order an attack.
It would be like Saddam sending a missile to Israel right now.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: JMaster
Skyclad, did you know that N Korea launches test missiles that often lands right off the coast of Japan? I think it's a message. Is it a coincidence that Japan gives more monetary aid and food to N Korea than any other country? Even more than S Korea does!

But attacking would be suicide. Bush would immediately order an attack.
It would be like Saddam sending a missile to Israel right now.

North Korea is playing some very dangerous games with some very dangerous players. They can't provide for themselves, so they are in the extortion business.

 

[JMaster]

In reply to Skyclad's post:
N Korea's enemies: S Korea (kind of, but they see S Korea as corrupted by the US), the US, and Japan. All backed by the US military. Doesn't really matter who they attack, but I believe it will be Japan first.

Edit:
By the way, N Korea's military and weapons are far more advanced than most people think. Of course it's nothing compared to ours, but it can still create a major headache.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: JMaster
In reply to Skyclad's post:
N Korea's enemies: S Korea (kind of, but they see S Korea as corrupted by the US), the US, and Japan. All backed by the US military. Doesn't really matter who they attack, but I believe it will be Japan first.

Edit:
By the way, N Korea's military and weapons are far more advanced than most people think. Of course it's nothing compared to ours, but it can still create a major headache.

Why the hell would they attack? They have no reason to want a war. Sure they are being provocative, but the countries you mention aren't exactly trying to be best of friends either.

 

[AndyHui]

If Japanese culture is so weak that it could not withstand death of a murderous thug scumbag emperor, than yes it deserved to be crushed into oblivion

I will argue that it is a cultural trait that honour is extremely important rather than a weakness. If the head is executed (seen as a dishonour), then it automatically taints ALL who are under him. Which in this case is the entire Japanese nation.

If your head of state is an evil man (again, I do not deny that Hirohito was an evil man), and your nation lost a war, do you believe that your culture should be wiped out? The country is gone, the government is gone, the way of life is gone, hundreds of years of cultural development gone. I hope you understand what I am driving at, particularly in the difference at how important honour and face is in Eastern thinking.

I do not believe that the actions of the head of state warrant complete and total destruction.

 

[JMaster]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: JMaster
In reply to Skyclad's post:
N Korea's enemies: S Korea (kind of, but they see S Korea as corrupted by the US), the US, and Japan. All backed by the US military. Doesn't really matter who they attack, but I believe it will be Japan first.

Edit:
By the way, N Korea's military and weapons are far more advanced than most people think. Of course it's nothing compared to ours, but it can still create a major headache.

Why the hell would they attack? They have no reason to want a war. Sure they are being provocative, but the countries you mention aren't exactly trying to be best of friends either.

Why would they attack? They are still FURIOUS at Japan for what they did to the Koreas. In fact, so is S Korea, but they have too many economic ties with Japan that it is rarely talked about by politicians and top business execs. And at the US for "taking" South Korea. And at South Korea for allowing the US to "westernize" them.

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: JMaster
In reply to Skyclad's post:
N Korea's enemies: S Korea (kind of, but they see S Korea as corrupted by the US), the US, and Japan. All backed by the US military. Doesn't really matter who they attack, but I believe it will be Japan first.

Edit:
By the way, N Korea's military and weapons are far more advanced than most people think. Of course it's nothing compared to ours, but it can still create a major headache.

Please don't tell me you just watch 007 Die another day 😀

Their weapons are obsolete. All the technology taken from Russia or China. They just have lots of soldiers. I doubt N Korea would think of attacking anyone unless the people in the government are not enjoying their priviledged positions.

 

[JMaster]

Originally posted by: bolido2000

Originally posted by: JMaster
In reply to Skyclad's post:
N Korea's enemies: S Korea (kind of, but they see S Korea as corrupted by the US), the US, and Japan. All backed by the US military. Doesn't really matter who they attack, but I believe it will be Japan first.

Edit:
By the way, N Korea's military and weapons are far more advanced than most people think. Of course it's nothing compared to ours, but it can still create a major headache.

Please don't tell me you just watch 007 Die another day 😀

Their weapons are obsolete. All the technology taken from Russia or China. They just have lots of soldiers. I doubt N Korea would think of attacking anyone unless the people in the government are not enjoying their priviledged positions.

Actually I haven't seen it but I want to.
You have to remember, they spend most of their money on their military. And since when were nukes, biological, and chemical weapons obsolete?

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

Japan has some f*cked up realities behind the cute facade of hello kitty and pokemon.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: JMaster

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: JMaster
In reply to Skyclad's post:
N Korea's enemies: S Korea (kind of, but they see S Korea as corrupted by the US), the US, and Japan. All backed by the US military. Doesn't really matter who they attack, but I believe it will be Japan first.

Edit:
By the way, N Korea's military and weapons are far more advanced than most people think. Of course it's nothing compared to ours, but it can still create a major headache.

Why the hell would they attack? They have no reason to want a war. Sure they are being provocative, but the countries you mention aren't exactly trying to be best of friends either.

Why would they attack? They are still FURIOUS at Japan for what they did to the Koreas. In fact, so is S Korea, but they have too many economic ties with Japan that it is rarely talked about by politicians and top business execs. And at the US for "taking" South Korea. And at South Korea for allowing the US to "westernize" them.

Compare it to this:
A guy steals your wallet. He is standing there with 500 of his friends, all armed with machineguns. Would you try to throw a punch?

They are no match for South Korea + Japan + USA + whoever else decides to join in, and they know that. They aren't so stupid that they will attack, they just want to show that they won't bend over either.

 

[AndyHui]

Originally posted by: JMaster

Um for one, there wouldn't be a North and South Korea. Also, there wouldn't be so much bitterness between the Koreas and Chinese against the Japanese. So yes, the world as it is today WOULD be a better place without them. Culture? Ha! You know Japan has the highest rate of child rape and child pornography in the world? But offenders only get a slap on the wrist. In fact, it's VERY common (I have a friend who was raised in Japan) for Japanese businessmen to have relations with adolescent girls for money. I can go on and on but I won't.

I'm well aware of what goes on in Japan. You merely focus on a single aspect of a current social problem. I make no pointers to US cultural problems as I do not think it is relevant to the argument. No matter how much you put down the Japanese culture, it is still a valid and rich one, just like yours.

Japan has some f*cked up realities behind the cute facade of hello kitty and pokemon.

It's very easy to put down others isn't it? Please view the entire situation critically as well as your own before coming up with a comment that does not contribute.

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

Originally posted by: AndyHui

i thought that part of the terms of surrender was that the emperor would be unharmed. i could be wrong though.

As a culture, Japan would have effectively undergone a total collapse if the Emperor was executed. There is no excuse for what occured during the war, but leaving the Emperor alive allowed the Japanese nation to move on, and save a little face.

With the head of state gone, I believe that Japan would never have recovered as a viable nation.

i wouldn't have too much problem with that

 

[AndyHui]

Originally posted by: FrontlineWarrior

i wouldn't have too much problem with that

It's fine to destroy everything and anyone else as long as it is not you, or does not belong to you.

:disgust:

A post-war Japan has brought a great deal to the world that is extremely beneficial to all of us.

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

if north korea attacked japan, would south korea stop them? what a weird situation to be in, defending the putrid nation that colonized you less than 100 years ago, against your own ethnic people. i have a feeling south korea wouldn't do sh!t and instead just sit back and grin. well that's what i would do at least.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: AndyHui

If Japanese culture is so weak that it could not withstand death of a murderous thug scumbag emperor, than yes it deserved to be crushed into oblivion

I will argue that it is a cultural trait that honour is extremely important rather than a weakness. If the head is executed (seen as a dishonour), then it automatically taints ALL who are under him. Which in this case is the entire Japanese nation.

So honoring as you call him "an evil man" doesn't taint all who are under him, but executing him does?
When society purges itself of an evil leader, it cleans itself of the taint. Executing Hirohito would have cleansed Japan. As it stands now, the whole society is tainted. They lost a chance to cleanse themselves.

If your head of state is an evil man (again, I do not deny that Hirohito was an evil man), and your nation lost a war, do you believe that your culture should be wiped out?

I think you are overdramatizing, but if a culture cannot stand to purge itself of evil, I have no problem with it being wiped out. It's either too weak, or too shameless, and should go the way of the dodo.

The country is gone, the government is gone, the way of life is gone, hundreds of years of cultural development gone. I hope you understand what I am driving at, particularly in the difference at how important honour and face is in Eastern thinking.
I do not believe that the actions of the head of state warrant complete and total destruction.

Many countries had their cultures destroyed or altered forever in the 20th century, many at the hands of the Japanese, and life goes on.
It would be no different for Japan, and they certainly deserved whatever was coming.
There is no honor in what Hirohito did, and no honor in honoring him or any of his war criminals. Now if the Japanese don't understand that, maybe they haven't learned the lesson and will have to learn it again some time.