I'm still in the process of memorizing all the hotkeysOriginally posted by: MrCraphead
figure out the key shortcuts for spells. they're so hax.
As both human and undead it is relatively easy to stop ne hunt rushes with just footmen/ghouls and your hero. Hunts can easily be owned by a smart player that knows how to properly micro manage their units when up against a player who hunt rushes (which is usually a dumb player looking for a quick win). Archmage with blizzard owns hunts, as does Mountain King with Thunder Clap. As for UD, ghouls with a Dread lord and vampiric aura do very well. You have to consider that if they are at 40 supply with hunts you should be 40 supply with ghouls or foots, which only take 2 compared to a hunt's 3. For every 2 hunts they have you will have 3 ghouls or footmen, which is definately enough to counter them.
This is only useful if you happen to run into them in the field, but if they come to your base you even have better odds. You should have spirit towers as undead along with enhanced healing abilities the creep gives you. As humans you may or may not have towers, but milita ROCK and are heavily underused. They have better armor than footmen with the same attack and about half the HP. They're great when combined with your regular army and can definately turn the tides and cause the opponent to run off. 8 hunts vs 12 footmen and 16 milita have no chance and if they go over supply and get 12 or so hunts, you'll still have the advantage and prolly have towers by that time while they have a suffering economy since thye have run into upkeep.
Orcs on the other hand really don't fare well against hunts early on except when it comes to base defense. If you run into a huntress army, run your troops back to base and let them come to you. The burrows and towers you should have will destroy them especially when mixed with your army. Just don't try to attack NE as orc before you are ready. I highly recommend having shamans or doctors with lust/heal wards before any attacks on NE as Orc.
This is only useful if you happen to run into them in the field, but if they come to your base you even have better odds. You should have spirit towers as undead along with enhanced healing abilities the creep gives you. As humans you may or may not have towers, but milita ROCK and are heavily underused. They have better armor than footmen with the same attack and about half the HP. They're great when combined with your regular army and can definately turn the tides and cause the opponent to run off. 8 hunts vs 12 footmen and 16 milita have no chance and if they go over supply and get 12 or so hunts, you'll still have the advantage and prolly have towers by that time while they have a suffering economy since thye have run into upkeep.
Orcs on the other hand really don't fare well against hunts early on except when it comes to base defense. If you run into a huntress army, run your troops back to base and let them come to you. The burrows and towers you should have will destroy them especially when mixed with your army. Just don't try to attack NE as orc before you are ready. I highly recommend having shamans or doctors with lust/heal wards before any attacks on NE as Orc.
Maleficus
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You can't wait for a patch and inform every lame @$$ night elf player that they are indeed a lame ass
anyone saying u can stop it with towers and footmen or the likes are crazy, any decent NE player will pound the crap outta u with hunts early game end of story
4 towers + mk + footmen + milita cant stop a decent NE.
even if u dont what are u gonna do when they go dryad/hunt and own ur knights, o u brng ou tgryphs ok hippos ur still raped. throw in DoTT faerie fire even worse...
NE are so insanely overpowered its not even funny
anyone saying u can stop it with towers and footmen or the likes are crazy, any decent NE player will pound the crap outta u with hunts early game end of story
4 towers + mk + footmen + milita cant stop a decent NE.
even if u dont what are u gonna do when they go dryad/hunt and own ur knights, o u brng ou tgryphs ok hippos ur still raped. throw in DoTT faerie fire even worse...
NE are so insanely overpowered its not even funny
Mani
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Towers, if well placed when combined with a meager ground force WILL own hunts. Especially if aided by a call to arms. I'm a lvl 10 random race player on US West and I've had more than my fair share of hunt rushes from good NE players, and nothing stops them dead in their tracks like a few inaccessible towers, be it from humans, undead, or orcs (though orc especially).
Someone also mentioned that towers should be placed in front of burrows because of their armor vs units and easy accessibility for gunts. I still disagree. Towers, while resistant still go down relatively fast when unprotected against mass hunts because it is easy for all of them to direct fire at the tower at once. Whereas if it is behind burrows or other buildings they will HAVE to clear out at least one burrow just to get good shots at one of the towers. So you may lose a burrow or two, but they will take HEAVY losses before they even get to your towers. It also works psychologically - if an NE player sees surrounded towers, there is much less of a chance of them trying to take them on than a few out in front of the base.
Maleficus
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ok, here we go replay time
Tillerman RB Gaming series
the games we are interested in 4 and 5
game4 TillerMaN (human) vs Ghostridah (Night Elf) - TillerMaN gets his ass handed to him by NE.
Game 5 - TillerMaN (Night Elf) vs Ghostridah (Night Elf) - only way to beat em is to become just as lame as them, they start off with mixing a little archers in but later in the game all we see is huntress. wonder why?
Tillerman RB Gaming series
the games we are interested in 4 and 5
game4 TillerMaN (human) vs Ghostridah (Night Elf) - TillerMaN gets his ass handed to him by NE.
Game 5 - TillerMaN (Night Elf) vs Ghostridah (Night Elf) - only way to beat em is to become just as lame as them, they start off with mixing a little archers in but later in the game all we see is huntress. wonder why?
Maleficus for some reason, your post warrants absolutely no credit with me, simple b/c you sound like a complete moron that has no idea what he's talking about. I'm banking on the idea that Blizzard developers has put in enough planning and beta testing to know how to balance races the proper way. You just have to know what to do. Mani ownz your ass.
I'm gonna try that tower strat, and yes, each time they do a huntress rush, I get obliterated hardcore.
I'm gonna try that tower strat, and yes, each time they do a huntress rush, I get obliterated hardcore.
Maleficus
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Umm alright, i point out something back it up with proof and im a complete moron.
and how do we know Mani so called owns my ass? He might be better than me, thats great for him how does that prove NE are balanced?
you make a post complaining about NE Huntress rush obliterating u and then say how u have faith in a company balancing the game but u get owned by 1 tactic every time, a simple one at that so how is that balanced.
Also you are the one that made this post looking for help in the game, you sure you have the right to tell someone else they dont know what they are talking about?
and how do we know Mani so called owns my ass? He might be better than me, thats great for him how does that prove NE are balanced?
you make a post complaining about NE Huntress rush obliterating u and then say how u have faith in a company balancing the game but u get owned by 1 tactic every time, a simple one at that so how is that balanced.
Also you are the one that made this post looking for help in the game, you sure you have the right to tell someone else they dont know what they are talking about?
Mani
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These don't help your point any. Tillerman wasn't a victim of a huntress rush. Reasons:
1. I counted - 5 huntresses were all Ghostridah made the entire game. The rest were ballistas and dryads.
2. Both were teched up to lvl 3 by the end of that game - and ghost had SIEGE weapons. That was by no means a rush, or in the "early game".
3. Tillerman didn't lose because of huntresses, he lost because he had a battered force from creeping and was going up against dyrads, ballistas and the 5 hunts when all he had were some injured footmen. Ghostridah caught him at a time when he was just starting to produce knights. Tillerman hadn't since produced any units beyond his initial footmen.
4. Tillerman had only 1 tower, and while it was protected, it wasn't forward enough to defend against anything but a close-in rush.
5. In the NE game, obviously you want to keep pumping out hunts. It is a VERY risky thing to try to tech up beyond hunts as NE because they have such poor base defense (protectors suck), and if the other player does decide to attack with mass hunts while you're teching up, you're screwed.
Lastly, not related to those games, but if NE really do own all in the early game like they say you do, don't you think there would be more in the high ranks of individual bnet ladder? They have right around a 1:4 ratio in the top 10 and at the top spots (total of 11 out of 40 spots, 1 first place spot in northrend), which is proportional to what the race should have. Nothing there suggests an unfair NE advantage, you just have to know what to do to stop them.
Mani
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Not when GR arrived. He had a single knight when ghostridah started attacking. It's a lot easier to pick off knights 1 or 2 at a time than a bunch of them.
In any case, that's besides the point. You argued that NE can own all with hunts in the early game, and we can see that that is not the case if properly countered.
I'm assuming you're looking at 1v1 game. And the answer to your question is... YOU CAN'T.
You can take the best NE player vs the best Orc/Human/Undeas players and the winner will be the NE. It's just a minor issue which will be eventually balanced, dont' want to make huntresses too weak or the balance will be way too horrible. It's pretty good IMO, huntresses being the most common imbalance.
Option 1) A few towers. Problem with this is that while you are building towers and waiting until your army is a decnet size, the NE player if smart will be creeping as much as possible with his KoTG or Demon Hunter. You can't do much about that and they can contain you from creeping/expanding. So... yo'ure screwed there.
Option 2) Tech fast. Even if you do manage to hold em off for a while, and you get too bloodlust or slow or whatever. Most NE players would have dryads by then as well as an expo for themselves.
NE will absolutley own Human. Just come with a demon hunter and mana burn thier heroes making them useless. Come with hunts which are much better than footman. Creep, expo, and control the map. Get a few drayds if you see them teching and your good to go. Shouldn't take more than 15 min.
NE players with orc. Just contain them. You can entangle peons and harrass them the entire game. Sure they can burrow thier peons or put up towers, but guess what... that costs money as well as time. Orcs are expensive and w/o an expo you wont live long.
Undead probably have the best chance but still not balanced. A few spirit towers will fend off hunts for a while. If somehow you manage to creep, get your heroes level up as fast as possible and you might have a chance.
Of course, as I said if you take the same skill, the NE player will always win. Usually NE players bring some ballistas or anicent protector pressue keep you contained and always on the defensive.
Whoever that huntresses aren't imbalanced are pretty blind. If you look at the ladder for any gateway the majority race is always NE. If it wasn't a problem, there woudlnt be so many complaints. All of the strategies I've read only tell you how to defened a pure huntresses rush. There has only been one strategy regardin an early huntress/dryads army.
I never tried it, so I can't comment on the validity or success of this. I played over 300+ games and I maintain about a 2-1 ratio. I usually play team games (level 13), and I'm only level 7 on solo games (liek 11-7?).
You fast build yoru altar, send your hero, two footmen, and liek 3 milita peasants and rush ASAP. Fast build towers w/ the peasants (because they will expire when they get there) and make use of the heroes mana ASAP (like on the way there). Hit the moonwells, and wood wisps, and the hero/hunts (first) iwhen they come out.
You can take the best NE player vs the best Orc/Human/Undeas players and the winner will be the NE. It's just a minor issue which will be eventually balanced, dont' want to make huntresses too weak or the balance will be way too horrible. It's pretty good IMO, huntresses being the most common imbalance.
Option 1) A few towers. Problem with this is that while you are building towers and waiting until your army is a decnet size, the NE player if smart will be creeping as much as possible with his KoTG or Demon Hunter. You can't do much about that and they can contain you from creeping/expanding. So... yo'ure screwed there.
Option 2) Tech fast. Even if you do manage to hold em off for a while, and you get too bloodlust or slow or whatever. Most NE players would have dryads by then as well as an expo for themselves.
NE will absolutley own Human. Just come with a demon hunter and mana burn thier heroes making them useless. Come with hunts which are much better than footman. Creep, expo, and control the map. Get a few drayds if you see them teching and your good to go. Shouldn't take more than 15 min.
NE players with orc. Just contain them. You can entangle peons and harrass them the entire game. Sure they can burrow thier peons or put up towers, but guess what... that costs money as well as time. Orcs are expensive and w/o an expo you wont live long.
Undead probably have the best chance but still not balanced. A few spirit towers will fend off hunts for a while. If somehow you manage to creep, get your heroes level up as fast as possible and you might have a chance.
Of course, as I said if you take the same skill, the NE player will always win. Usually NE players bring some ballistas or anicent protector pressue keep you contained and always on the defensive.
Whoever that huntresses aren't imbalanced are pretty blind. If you look at the ladder for any gateway the majority race is always NE. If it wasn't a problem, there woudlnt be so many complaints. All of the strategies I've read only tell you how to defened a pure huntresses rush. There has only been one strategy regardin an early huntress/dryads army.
I never tried it, so I can't comment on the validity or success of this. I played over 300+ games and I maintain about a 2-1 ratio. I usually play team games (level 13), and I'm only level 7 on solo games (liek 11-7?).
You fast build yoru altar, send your hero, two footmen, and liek 3 milita peasants and rush ASAP. Fast build towers w/ the peasants (because they will expire when they get there) and make use of the heroes mana ASAP (like on the way there). Hit the moonwells, and wood wisps, and the hero/hunts (first) iwhen they come out.
Indeed, get defend asap so your footmen only take 30% of the damage, and tower rush them. Hero/footmen with defend/towers is very tough, I tend to use that on the computer too with few opps.
With a lot of opponents you are toast as NE, as you just don't have enough base defense to last, unless you hang back near your base all the time. The owl ability of the huntresses is nice though, as you can see when someone leaves his base undefended and where they are heading.
With a lot of opponents you are toast as NE, as you just don't have enough base defense to last, unless you hang back near your base all the time. The owl ability of the huntresses is nice though, as you can see when someone leaves his base undefended and where they are heading.
Hunts are not unbalanced. That's the bottom line. I've beaten plenty of NE players that go all hunts, and if they mix in dryads or archers when I'm human it just makes it easier (its called DEFEND on your footmen). If a human player has his supply maxxed to 40 and an NE player does the same, the human WILL win. The hunts are severely outnumbered and if you can keep your hero away from mana burn, which really isn't all that hard then you can own them. If they're chasing your hero around trying to mana burn with the DH, that's a lot of damage that isn't going to your footmen. It can be a little tougher if they have the KoTG since he has that damned entangle and the thorns aura which really help vs footmen. That is a different story, and you'd be more wise to stand back and let them come to you.
With the right tactics and smart micromanagement of your units (pull the weaker troops out of battle and put them in a different place where they're not getting directly hit), you CAN beat a huntress rush. A smart human player can also get their hero out and to the opponent's base in time for their hunt hall to go up, or to kill a few wood wisps. If you halt the construction of their hunter's hall or kill enough wood wisps, this will severely hamper their ability to produce huntresses fast enough to rush you. Sure, they may have a hero out by the time your archmage gets to their base, but if you have two water elementals pounding on his wisps while he's chasing you around with his DH/KoTG, then his hunt rush has already been stopped and it is no longer a rush. You have the upper hand, even if your hero dies, because your resources have not been stalled and you continue to pump footmen and should have a hero back in about 30 seconds.
UD has it a little tougher, but spirit towers help a lot and a little unit called the fiend slices thru hunts with ease when they have a few ghouls at the front for cannon fodder. With vampiric Aura and sleep (or carrier swarm, which is severely underused...people just don't understand the power if used correctly), you can easily take out a hunt rush. Orcs with a Farseer and grunts will have the hardest time of the other three races if NE meets them in battle outside of their base. Still, with the right tactics Orcs can still win with the Grunts' higher HP and chainlightning mixed with wolves. If you have hurt grunts, pull them out and make sure the hunts focus their fire on your wolves instead, then place the grunts back in action. Also, a trick I like to use especially if my opponent does a focus fire on my hero or one unit at a time is pull the unit/hero out of the action and his entire army will follow that unit while your army gets free hits in and he's wasting his time chasing you around. Usually a player will at least put a couple units of his on your hero and then you can run off letting his units chase you while stopping only for the occassional spell. It works great and its helped me win many games.
Another tip - it is cheaper to let a low level hero die than it is to waste a TP scroll on getting him out. 200 gold compared to 350 gold. While I always try to just run my hero out when he's down to about 150 hp, if he gets to the point that he's gonna die I just let him...no since in wasting a TP scroll when you may need it later.
I have the feeling most of the people complaining about NE on this board are total newbies with a 50% win ratio. NE is entirely beatable if you're smart, it is just that they are the easiest race for new players to learn and use and that's why they are considered so overly powerful. They have the best early game, but if you're good enough to keep them from winning the early game then they're dead. As someone else already pointed out, just go look at the various ladders - especially 1v1. It is about even between Human/Orc/NE/UD and even Random. If you look down the list you'll definately see more NE, but that's only because they are newbie friendly and people looking for a quick ranking (albeit low) will go with the hunt rush.
With the right tactics and smart micromanagement of your units (pull the weaker troops out of battle and put them in a different place where they're not getting directly hit), you CAN beat a huntress rush. A smart human player can also get their hero out and to the opponent's base in time for their hunt hall to go up, or to kill a few wood wisps. If you halt the construction of their hunter's hall or kill enough wood wisps, this will severely hamper their ability to produce huntresses fast enough to rush you. Sure, they may have a hero out by the time your archmage gets to their base, but if you have two water elementals pounding on his wisps while he's chasing you around with his DH/KoTG, then his hunt rush has already been stopped and it is no longer a rush. You have the upper hand, even if your hero dies, because your resources have not been stalled and you continue to pump footmen and should have a hero back in about 30 seconds.
UD has it a little tougher, but spirit towers help a lot and a little unit called the fiend slices thru hunts with ease when they have a few ghouls at the front for cannon fodder. With vampiric Aura and sleep (or carrier swarm, which is severely underused...people just don't understand the power if used correctly), you can easily take out a hunt rush. Orcs with a Farseer and grunts will have the hardest time of the other three races if NE meets them in battle outside of their base. Still, with the right tactics Orcs can still win with the Grunts' higher HP and chainlightning mixed with wolves. If you have hurt grunts, pull them out and make sure the hunts focus their fire on your wolves instead, then place the grunts back in action. Also, a trick I like to use especially if my opponent does a focus fire on my hero or one unit at a time is pull the unit/hero out of the action and his entire army will follow that unit while your army gets free hits in and he's wasting his time chasing you around. Usually a player will at least put a couple units of his on your hero and then you can run off letting his units chase you while stopping only for the occassional spell. It works great and its helped me win many games.
Another tip - it is cheaper to let a low level hero die than it is to waste a TP scroll on getting him out. 200 gold compared to 350 gold. While I always try to just run my hero out when he's down to about 150 hp, if he gets to the point that he's gonna die I just let him...no since in wasting a TP scroll when you may need it later.
I have the feeling most of the people complaining about NE on this board are total newbies with a 50% win ratio. NE is entirely beatable if you're smart, it is just that they are the easiest race for new players to learn and use and that's why they are considered so overly powerful. They have the best early game, but if you're good enough to keep them from winning the early game then they're dead. As someone else already pointed out, just go look at the various ladders - especially 1v1. It is about even between Human/Orc/NE/UD and even Random. If you look down the list you'll definately see more NE, but that's only because they are newbie friendly and people looking for a quick ranking (albeit low) will go with the hunt rush.
Wow, nice long post that is completely WRONG. If you actually knew what you are talking about... DEFEND for footman, takes 30% of the damage from PIERCING attacks. Meanwhile, HUNTRESSES have a NORMAL attack... or while you have wasted some gold, wood, and time on defend.. guess what... all you're doing is SLOWING your movement speed. Do you need a link to the Blizzard site for me to prove this to you? Is a quote directly from blizzard good enough?
Defend Information
"Defend reduces 70% of all piercing damage. Defend only reduces Pierce damage, not all ranged attacks. The Footman can stay in defend mode as long as he wants and can cancel back to normal mode at any time. Defend has no effect on Night Elf Huntresses. "
The Huntress is not affected by the Footman's Defend ability, making her the best unit to use against massed Footmen that are using Defend. This is a game balance restriction: it is the only way that Night Elves can counter Defend besides using Druids of the Claw in Bear form. Be sure to laugh when enemy Human players try to use Defend when fighting your Huntresses. You can also let them know after the game is over. =)
Blizzard just told me to laugh at you....
Now secondly, its called a Huntress RUSH. Now the 40 unit mark I don't really consider a rush but maybe you do. It's not like the NE player just chills until the 40 mark and comes all of sudden. The NE will naturally HERO RUSH first w/ a Demon Hunter (to mana burn hero) and kill peasants/ footmen or the KotG w/ entangle. At this point of time, you cant do much other than chase him off w/ enough footmen and your hero hoping you dont lose any peasnts. After that, they will keep coming w/ huntresses constantly keeping pressure on you, keeping you constnatly on guard and psending money on footmen. You won't be able to creep and level your hero, while thier hero levles up FASTER beause they WILL kill more units (footmen). Now by the 40 mark an NE player would have lots of hunts, 2 heroes, and possibly a few dryads. (No, they will not go archers.) By that time, you will have wahatever footmen army you can keep up (which will outnumber the huntresses but not significantly enough to change the tide of war becaues entangle from KotG as well as a demon hunter).
Sit back and let them come to you? In other words, let them creep as much as they want, get another expo, and get ballistas to take care of your towers. But of course you ahve your TP's and you dont mind spending $350 each time they keep coming back. Espcially since the first couple waves will happen BEFORE the item shop is even open which is the SECOND day.
Now furthermore, it may be cheaper in terms of monetary costs to let your low level hero die, but it does give somethign called EXPERIENCE to the other hero. Meanwhile, they only way to hero rush an NE w/ water is if you get both waters out BEFORE encountering the enemy hero but even still you may kill at most 2 wisps, but water elementals give A LOT of experience. (one of the most for any summoned unit, and hero levels are extremely important early game as they can turn the tide of a battle) And your resources aren't hindered by losing a hero while theres is? Meanwhile, while you spend $200 on your hero and can't creep. The demon hunter (which is a great solo, fast creep hero) will have that entire time to gain money by creeping... hmm $140 in wsips plus about 30 wood you missed, compared to $200 plus all the money you missed by creeping. Tough choice.
And your comments regarding to just running your hero around and have him chase you the entire time. Right, like any half decent NE player would keep doing that. And right, your micro is so great and theirs will be so horrible that they will start chasing yoru one footmen that they are focusing fire on. It's a shame knowing that huntresses are RANGED which lets them attack one unit much easier than a bunch of melee footmen who have to run around the fat huntress army. Too bad huntresses are easier to micro than footmen and they do move faster also. They also have the hide and senitnal ability which is great for keeping knowledge of where the mass footman army is and if your creeping (so that they could come from behind and sandwich you w/ the creeps).
Too finally put a final comment on my argument. Lets take a look at the the TOP players of the ladder, espeically since the bottom is full of the unskilled NE players. Is the Top 3 from every individual ladder good enough?
West - 2, 3
East - 3
Europe - 2
Asia - 1, 2
Dang, 50% out of 4 races. Must mean 1 race isn't even showing up in the top 3 of the inidividual ladders. Oh wait... there is... why I think it's Human! :Q
But of course, can't be selective and only choose top 3. We all know statistics lie often. How about the top 10 for individual ladders. NE - 11. That's pretty darn close to 25%, so it's pretty balanced I guess. Oh wait... Human - 5. On top of that, I think most people would agree with me that the US West and Asia (what you think you can beat the pro gamer koreans) tends to have the harder people than East and Europe.. and mysteriously the NE are numerous in the top 10 in those gateways, while there is only 1 human. Odd statistics... so very odd...
Sorry, I'm not usually this offensive in an argument, but when you start calling people newbies w/ 50% win-loss ratio when you dont even know the FACTS about huntresses and footman...
I haven't played WC3 in about a week or so.
Last time I checked, I was level 9 on the 1v1 ladder, US west.
I can't remember the last time I couldn't stop an NE huntress rush.
As UD, I always tech fast to necros. Which means by the time I get rushed, I have ghouls and my second level town upgrade. If I'm really scared, I'll morph a ziggurat as well. Use your hero's mana on that DH before he mana burns you!
As humans, I can almost always manage to rush the NE player before he can rush me. This only seems to kill the lower level NE players that are bad at micro though. In my experience, a rushing human player can show up at the NE's base with an archmage and a few footmen before/around when the first huntress pops out. Though, the strength of the DH + moon wells + uprooting can beat my rush down.
As orcs, well, I'm not too good at orcs. But you've got burrows, and grunts are really strong. If you really feel like you need it, you can put up towers as well (I rarely do).
Any tier 3 unit will rape huntresses, and NE's tier 3 units are not very strong. The most annoying NE strat I've seen is DH + Kotg + huntress + dryads, with the Kotg entangling your tier 3 units and a few dryads slowing down the rest. The NE player will entangle one of your tier 3, run back a bit, then repeat until you are owned. The only counter I can think of is to kill the Kotg ASAP. Unless wand of negation/dispel works on entangle (I don't think so though).
dfi
Last time I checked, I was level 9 on the 1v1 ladder, US west.
I can't remember the last time I couldn't stop an NE huntress rush.
As UD, I always tech fast to necros. Which means by the time I get rushed, I have ghouls and my second level town upgrade. If I'm really scared, I'll morph a ziggurat as well. Use your hero's mana on that DH before he mana burns you!
As humans, I can almost always manage to rush the NE player before he can rush me. This only seems to kill the lower level NE players that are bad at micro though. In my experience, a rushing human player can show up at the NE's base with an archmage and a few footmen before/around when the first huntress pops out. Though, the strength of the DH + moon wells + uprooting can beat my rush down.
As orcs, well, I'm not too good at orcs. But you've got burrows, and grunts are really strong. If you really feel like you need it, you can put up towers as well (I rarely do).
Any tier 3 unit will rape huntresses, and NE's tier 3 units are not very strong. The most annoying NE strat I've seen is DH + Kotg + huntress + dryads, with the Kotg entangling your tier 3 units and a few dryads slowing down the rest. The NE player will entangle one of your tier 3, run back a bit, then repeat until you are owned. The only counter I can think of is to kill the Kotg ASAP. Unless wand of negation/dispel works on entangle (I don't think so though).
dfi
I think the only reason NE seems overpowered is because they are very easy to use. Therefore, especially at lower levels, it's easy to get your ass handed to you by an NE player. I thought NE was way too good until I got to about level 7 on the 1v1 ladder. Up until then, I was winning all my NE games easily (I play random). But once I got to a certain level, I began to see that the huntress rush rarely works.
I still think NE is pretty damn sweet, and if I had to play only one race I would play NE. But the huntress rush is definitely stoppable.
Remember when people used to complain in starcraft about 4 pool? I knew someone that got to #80 on the ladder, season 1, by only 4 pool rushing. Well, that turned out to be stoppable (even on blood bath). Once the players got good enough, people complained a lot less. I think this is the same case with the huntress rush.
dfi
I still think NE is pretty damn sweet, and if I had to play only one race I would play NE. But the huntress rush is definitely stoppable.
Remember when people used to complain in starcraft about 4 pool? I knew someone that got to #80 on the ladder, season 1, by only 4 pool rushing. Well, that turned out to be stoppable (even on blood bath). Once the players got good enough, people complained a lot less. I think this is the same case with the huntress rush.
dfi
Good point. The huntress rush is stoppable itself, but unlike SC, WC is much more flexible and there are greater long term affects. The purpose of a huntress rush isn't necessarily to kill and win, but for containment and creeping. You just come along with some ballistas, dryads, or chimuras (what anti air is human going ot have... rifles? polymoprh wont work because of dryads or just a WoN) or simply creep/expo until you have a much larger army with constant harrasment. It's still essentially the huntresses that win the game for them....
The game has been out for several months now... and it's obvioulsy still being complained about. No on even gets the the upgrade glaive attack at Tier 3... most NE games will end far before that, so its pretty much unecessary.
Mani
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- Aug 9, 2001
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I mentioned valid tactics for stopping it and pointed to the fact that out of the top 10s in each Bnet ladder, NE's represent 1/4 of the top spots and 1/4 of the top 10 spots. If that doesn't show that they are stoppable, then I'd point to mine and countless other players who are routinely able to stop the NE rush, even with an early hero rush. Just because a number of people are bitching about the NE doesn't make them unstoppable by any means. Shlt, I was one of the bitchers once. They are just very easy for a novice player to use, and it irks people to get beaten by such lame and skilless tactics. But the fact of the matter is that it just takes a little strategy to counter them, and most of the people who are bicthing just haven't developed a good counter to NE yet.
A number of people point to the NE ability to creep early on, which they definitely have. But it's possible to creep in parallel and keep a well-defended in base in the even of an attack. This is probably most difficult as human, but it is fairly easy as Orc. And just about every race has the advantage over NE in the late game, even despite levelled NE heroes.
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