Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK
Originally posted by: Valinos
Hunts are not unbalanced. That's the bottom line. I've beaten plenty of NE players that go all hunts, and if they mix in dryads or archers when I'm human it just makes it easier (its called DEFEND on your footmen). If a human player has his supply maxxed to 40 and an NE player does the same, the human WILL win. The hunts are severely outnumbered and if you can keep your hero away from mana burn, which really isn't all that hard then you can own them. If they're chasing your hero around trying to mana burn with the DH, that's a lot of damage that isn't going to your footmen. It can be a little tougher if they have the KoTG since he has that damned entangle and the thorns aura which really help vs footmen. That is a different story, and you'd be more wise to stand back and let them come to you.
With the right tactics and smart micromanagement of your units (pull the weaker troops out of battle and put them in a different place where they're not getting directly hit), you CAN beat a huntress rush. A smart human player can also get their hero out and to the opponent's base in time for their hunt hall to go up, or to kill a few wood wisps. If you halt the construction of their hunter's hall or kill enough wood wisps, this will severely hamper their ability to produce huntresses fast enough to rush you. Sure, they may have a hero out by the time your archmage gets to their base, but if you have two water elementals pounding on his wisps while he's chasing you around with his DH/KoTG, then his hunt rush has already been stopped and it is no longer a rush. You have the upper hand, even if your hero dies, because your resources have not been stalled and you continue to pump footmen and should have a hero back in about 30 seconds.
UD has it a little tougher, but spirit towers help a lot and a little unit called the fiend slices thru hunts with ease when they have a few ghouls at the front for cannon fodder. With vampiric Aura and sleep (or carrier swarm, which is severely underused...people just don't understand the power if used correctly), you can easily take out a hunt rush. Orcs with a Farseer and grunts will have the hardest time of the other three races if NE meets them in battle outside of their base. Still, with the right tactics Orcs can still win with the Grunts' higher HP and chainlightning mixed with wolves. If you have hurt grunts, pull them out and make sure the hunts focus their fire on your wolves instead, then place the grunts back in action. Also, a trick I like to use especially if my opponent does a focus fire on my hero or one unit at a time is pull the unit/hero out of the action and his entire army will follow that unit while your army gets free hits in and he's wasting his time chasing you around. Usually a player will at least put a couple units of his on your hero and then you can run off letting his units chase you while stopping only for the occassional spell. It works great and its helped me win many games.
Another tip - it is cheaper to let a low level hero die than it is to waste a TP scroll on getting him out. 200 gold compared to 350 gold. While I always try to just run my hero out when he's down to about 150 hp, if he gets to the point that he's gonna die I just let him...no since in wasting a TP scroll when you may need it later.
I have the feeling most of the people complaining about NE on this board are total newbies with a 50% win ratio. NE is entirely beatable if you're smart, it is just that they are the easiest race for new players to learn and use and that's why they are considered so overly powerful. They have the best early game, but if you're good enough to keep them from winning the early game then they're dead. As someone else already pointed out, just go look at the various ladders - especially 1v1. It is about even between Human/Orc/NE/UD and even Random. If you look down the list you'll definately see more NE, but that's only because they are newbie friendly and people looking for a quick ranking (albeit low) will go with the hunt rush.
Wow, nice long post that is completely WRONG. If you actually knew what you are talking about... DEFEND for footman, takes 30% of the damage from PIERCING attacks. Meanwhile, HUNTRESSES have a NORMAL attack... or while you have wasted some gold, wood, and time on defend.. guess what... all you're doing is SLOWING your movement speed. Do you need a link to the Blizzard site for me to prove this to you? Is a quote directly from blizzard good enough?
Defend Information
"Defend reduces 70% of all piercing damage. Defend only reduces Pierce damage, not all ranged attacks. The Footman can stay in defend mode as long as he wants and can cancel back to normal mode at any time.
Defend has no effect on Night Elf Huntresses. "
The Huntress is not affected by the Footman's Defend ability, making her the best unit to use against massed Footmen that are using Defend. This is a game balance restriction: it is the only way that Night Elves can counter Defend besides using Druids of the Claw in Bear form. Be sure to laugh when enemy Human players try to use Defend when fighting your Huntresses. You can also let them know after the game is over. =)
Blizzard just told me to laugh at you....
Now secondly, its called a Huntress RUSH. Now the 40 unit mark I don't really consider a rush but maybe you do. It's not like the NE player just chills until the 40 mark and comes all of sudden. The NE will naturally HERO RUSH first w/ a Demon Hunter (to mana burn hero) and kill peasants/ footmen or the KotG w/ entangle. At this point of time, you cant do much other than chase him off w/ enough footmen and your hero hoping you dont lose any peasnts. After that, they will keep coming w/ huntresses constantly keeping pressure on you, keeping you constnatly on guard and psending money on footmen. You won't be able to creep and level your hero, while thier hero levles up FASTER beause they WILL kill more units (footmen). Now by the 40 mark an NE player would have lots of hunts, 2 heroes, and possibly a few dryads. (No, they will not go archers.) By that time, you will have wahatever footmen army you can keep up (which will outnumber the huntresses but not significantly enough to change the tide of war becaues entangle from KotG as well as a demon hunter).
Sit back and let them come to you? In other words, let them creep as much as they want, get another expo, and get ballistas to take care of your towers. But of course you ahve your TP's and you dont mind spending $350 each time they keep coming back. Espcially since the first couple waves will happen BEFORE the item shop is even open which is the SECOND day.
Now furthermore, it may be cheaper in terms of monetary costs to let your low level hero die, but it does give somethign called EXPERIENCE to the other hero. Meanwhile, they only way to hero rush an NE w/ water is if you get both waters out BEFORE encountering the enemy hero but even still you may kill at most 2 wisps, but water elementals give A LOT of experience. (one of the most for any summoned unit, and hero levels are extremely important early game as they can turn the tide of a battle) And your resources aren't hindered by losing a hero while theres is? Meanwhile, while you spend $200 on your hero and can't creep. The demon hunter (which is a great solo, fast creep hero) will have that entire time to gain money by creeping... hmm $140 in wsips plus about 30 wood you missed, compared to $200 plus all the money you missed by creeping. Tough choice.
And your comments regarding to just running your hero around and have him chase you the entire time. Right, like any half decent NE player would keep doing that. And right, your micro is so great and theirs will be so horrible that they will start chasing yoru one footmen that they are focusing fire on. It's a shame knowing that huntresses are RANGED which lets them attack one unit much easier than a bunch of melee footmen who have to run around the fat huntress army. Too bad huntresses are easier to micro than footmen and they do move faster also. They also have the hide and senitnal ability which is great for keeping knowledge of where the mass footman army is and if your creeping (so that they could come from behind and sandwich you w/ the creeps).
Too finally put a final comment on my argument. Lets take a look at the the TOP players of the ladder, espeically since the bottom is full of the unskilled NE players. Is the Top 3 from every individual ladder good enough?
West - 2, 3
East - 3
Europe - 2
Asia - 1, 2
Dang, 50% out of 4 races. Must mean 1 race isn't even showing up in the top 3 of the inidividual ladders. Oh wait... there is... why I think it's Human! :Q
But of course, can't be selective and only choose top 3. We all know statistics lie often. How about the top 10 for individual ladders. NE - 11. That's pretty darn close to 25%, so it's pretty balanced I guess. Oh wait... Human - 5. On top of that, I think most people would agree with me that the US West and Asia (what you think you can beat the pro gamer koreans) tends to have the harder people than East and Europe.. and mysteriously the NE are numerous in the top 10 in those gateways, while there is only 1 human. Odd statistics... so very odd...
Sorry, I'm not usually this offensive in an argument, but when you start calling people newbies w/ 50% win-loss ratio when you dont even know the FACTS about huntresses and footman...
You can continue with your name calling if you want now since your argument has jsut been shown to be completely wrong.
