wtf? Arizona does NOT observed Daylight Saving?

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sao123
Apparently a LOT of you dont understand daylight savings time...

Daylight savings time is the SUMMER... its done so you have mroe daylight in the summer instead of sleeping it away (IE without it, it would be daylight at like 5am)...

Standard time... which all of you are complaining about is the Winter time...



PERHAPS what you should be wishing for is permanent DST... not the permanent end of it.

Uhh.... you realize that changing the clock doesn't change the actual hours in the day, right? That you could just get up an hour earlier in the summer and it'd be the same thing, right?

um... that doesn't seem like a feasible practice. People enjoy daylight for longer hours in the summer, so that its more time to 'play' and enjoy it to whatever end they choose. You can't do that at 5am. It doesn't work that way. At 5am, you have a few hours before you go to work. Are you going to have a cookout at 5am just because that's when the daylight is? Are you going to get a game of football together at 5am? Rather, when everyone gets out of work in the early evening, they have time to do the things they want to in the daylight.
The only people that would benefit from the early sun is people who have trouble getting up when its still dark, and those that want sun for exercise before they go to work.

What would you do with the sun at 5am, versus the many things that can be done with the sun at 7, 8, and in some regions 9pm (very little but still light)? Sit there an admire it?

+

 

[EKKC]

correct me if im wrong i thought if you live to the south (still in the northern hemisphere) you don't see the prolonged daylights as some people up north do. like some parts of canada it is still light outside at 9pm or even 10pm, and sun comes up at 5am.

without DST those poor canucks would see the sun coming up when they go for their late night snacks at 4am.

edit: check this out: Edmonton at the summer solstice get like 4 hour of darkness only. that's awesome http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/edmonton.html

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sao123
Apparently a LOT of you dont understand daylight savings time...

Daylight savings time is the SUMMER... its done so you have mroe daylight in the summer instead of sleeping it away (IE without it, it would be daylight at like 5am)...

Standard time... which all of you are complaining about is the Winter time...



PERHAPS what you should be wishing for is permanent DST... not the permanent end of it.

Uhh.... you realize that changing the clock doesn't change the actual hours in the day, right? That you could just get up an hour earlier in the summer and it'd be the same thing, right?

um... that doesn't seem like a feasible practice. People enjoy daylight for longer hours in the summer, so that its more time to 'play' and enjoy it to whatever end they choose. You can't do that at 5am. It doesn't work that way. At 5am, you have a few hours before you go to work. Are you going to have a cookout at 5am just because that's when the daylight is? Are you going to get a game of football together at 5am? Rather, when everyone gets out of work in the early evening, they have time to do the things they want to in the daylight.
The only people that would benefit from the early sun is people who have trouble getting up when its still dark, and those that want sun for exercise before they go to work.

What would you do with the sun at 5am, versus the many things that can be done with the sun at 7, 8, and in some regions 9pm (very little but still light)? Sit there an admire it?

+

You realize that with DST we're just getting up at 5am anyway and calling it 6am, right? And getting off work at 4pm and calling it 5pm, and so forth?
We're already doing what you say "doesn't seem like a feasible practice," and just pretending to ourselves that we're not. I repeat, changing the clock does not change the actual hours in the day. DST doesn't add an extra hour to the day, it doesn't give you more time do things in the daylight. All of that is nonsense. The sun rises and sets according to its own schedule, not ours.

"I don't really care how time is reckoned so long as there is some agreement about it, but I object to being told that I am saving daylight when my reason tells me that I am doing nothing of the kind. I even object to the implication that I am wasting something valuable if I stay in bed after the sun has risen. As an admirer of moonlight I resent the bossy insistence of those who want to reduce my time for enjoying it. At the back of the Daylight Saving scheme I detect the bony, blue-fingered hand of Puritanism, eager to push people into bed earlier, and get them up earlier, to make them healthy, wealthy and wise in spite of themselves." -- Robertson Davies

 

[KB]

DST stinks. Programming Scheduling applications and having to worry about time zone changes stinks.

 

[MattCo]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sao123
Apparently a LOT of you dont understand daylight savings time...

Daylight savings time is the SUMMER... its done so you have mroe daylight in the summer instead of sleeping it away (IE without it, it would be daylight at like 5am)...

Standard time... which all of you are complaining about is the Winter time...



PERHAPS what you should be wishing for is permanent DST... not the permanent end of it.

Uhh.... you realize that changing the clock doesn't change the actual hours in the day, right? That you could just get up an hour earlier in the summer and it'd be the same thing, right?

But "just getting up an hour earlier" doesn't work in a world where people don't get to set their own work hours (ie. schools, many businesses, etc.)

 

[mugs]

The same arguments that are made against daylight saving time could be made against standard time. Standard time has the effect of moving the clocks forward nearly an hour at the western end of the time zones, and some amount less than an hour throughout the entire time zone. So if shifting time forward an hour for DST causes more energy to be used, can't the same be said for shifting time forward an hour for standard time? Should we abolish standard time and go back to having noon be exactly when the sun is highest in the sky, so each town is on different time? Of course not, that's silly. The benefits of standard time outweigh the disadvantage(s). The benefits of DST aren't quite as much as the benefits of standard time, but I think it's still worthwhile. You people on the western edges of time zones might be content with having dusk at 9:00 p.m. instead of 10:00 p.m. - and I would be too. But we on the eastern edges of time zone would have dusk at 8:00 instead of 9:00, and that's not so great.

Ever play little league? When I was a kid, our games sometimes ran long enough to end due to darkness. Get rid of DST, and the games have to be held an hour earlier, and parents with 9-5 jobs can't make it to the game (I'm talking about the spring when dusk is earlier). Ever go to the beach? Who wants to wake up at 5:00 a.m. when to get an extra hour of daylight? When I'm down the shore, I'm usually doing something outside whenever it's light out, even if I'm not at the beach. It's nice to have the extra hour when it's useful.

Like destrekor mentioned, it's not always feasible to do something at 5:00 a.m. instead of 8:00 p.m. I highly doubt I could get away with mowing my lawn at 8:00 p.m. And in addition to just shifting an hour to the evening, DST serves to consolidate the daylight into a larger block of usable time for people who work a 9-5 job. An extra hour in the morning doesn't do much for me if I have to do something that's going to take me 3 hours. Stores don't base their hours on when the sun rises and sets. I can't go to Target at 5:00 a.m. when they open at 8:00 a.m. I can go to Target in the evening, because they close at 10:00 p.m. I don't need light to go to Target, but it's nice to be able to drive when it's light out; it's arguably safer.

There are definite advantages to DST.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: MattCo

But "just getting up an hour earlier" doesn't work in a world where people don't get to set their own work hours (ie. schools, many businesses, etc.)

Sure it does if enjoying sunlight is your reason. You get up that extra hour earlier and walk the dog or something before going to work. Just because you are too lazy to get out of bed earlier without being forced to doesn't mean it wouldn't work.

 

[EKKC]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sao123
Apparently a LOT of you dont understand daylight savings time...

Daylight savings time is the SUMMER... its done so you have mroe daylight in the summer instead of sleeping it away (IE without it, it would be daylight at like 5am)...

Standard time... which all of you are complaining about is the Winter time...



PERHAPS what you should be wishing for is permanent DST... not the permanent end of it.

Uhh.... you realize that changing the clock doesn't change the actual hours in the day, right? That you could just get up an hour earlier in the summer and it'd be the same thing, right?

um... that doesn't seem like a feasible practice. People enjoy daylight for longer hours in the summer, so that its more time to 'play' and enjoy it to whatever end they choose. You can't do that at 5am. It doesn't work that way. At 5am, you have a few hours before you go to work. Are you going to have a cookout at 5am just because that's when the daylight is? Are you going to get a game of football together at 5am? Rather, when everyone gets out of work in the early evening, they have time to do the things they want to in the daylight.
The only people that would benefit from the early sun is people who have trouble getting up when its still dark, and those that want sun for exercise before they go to work.

What would you do with the sun at 5am, versus the many things that can be done with the sun at 7, 8, and in some regions 9pm (very little but still light)? Sit there an admire it?

+

You realize that with DST we're just getting up at 5am anyway and calling it 6am, right? And getting off work at 4pm and calling 5pm, and so forth?
We're already doing what you say "doesn't seem like a feasible practice," and just pretending to ourselves that we're not. I repeat, changing the clock does not change the actual hours in the day. DST doesn't add an extra hour to the day, it doesn't give you more time do things in the daylight. All of that is nonsense. The sun rises and sets according to its own schedule, not ours.

"I don't really care how time is reckoned so long as there is some agreement about it, but I object to being told that I am saving daylight when my reason tells me that I am doing nothing of the kind. I even object to the implication that I am wasting something valuable if I stay in bed after the sun has risen. As an admirer of moonlight I resent the bossy insistence of those who want to reduce my time for enjoying it. At the back of the Daylight Saving scheme I detect the bony, blue-fingered hand of Puritanism, eager to push people into bed earlier, and get them up earlier, to make them healthy, wealthy and wise in spite of themselves." -- Robertson Davies

no one ever said we're gaining daylight, but we are utilizing the daylight in a more productive way. if you believe you are somehow magically saving daylight you have problems, but it's how we time our clocks so that we can get the most out of the sunlight in the end of the day, not the beginning of the day.

for the average person who wakes up at 7am and goes to bed at 11pm, that "extra" one hour of sunlight (say sundown at 8pm instead of 9pm, because the sun rose at 6am and not 5am) in the summer can be useful for outdoor activities, instead of, say, neffing and debating in an online forum like all of us are doing right now.

like i said before, most of north america observes this. it doesnt affect those in the south as much, but the ones from the north certainly benefits from it. unless you want to go with eight different time zones just north america, eastern time zone north, eastern time zone south, central time zone south, central time zone north, etc etc. i for one, do not want the time to be different between Florida and New York.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sao123
Apparently a LOT of you dont understand daylight savings time...

Daylight savings time is the SUMMER... its done so you have mroe daylight in the summer instead of sleeping it away (IE without it, it would be daylight at like 5am)...

Standard time... which all of you are complaining about is the Winter time...



PERHAPS what you should be wishing for is permanent DST... not the permanent end of it.

Uhh.... you realize that changing the clock doesn't change the actual hours in the day, right? That you could just get up an hour earlier in the summer and it'd be the same thing, right?

um... that doesn't seem like a feasible practice. People enjoy daylight for longer hours in the summer, so that its more time to 'play' and enjoy it to whatever end they choose. You can't do that at 5am. It doesn't work that way. At 5am, you have a few hours before you go to work. Are you going to have a cookout at 5am just because that's when the daylight is? Are you going to get a game of football together at 5am? Rather, when everyone gets out of work in the early evening, they have time to do the things they want to in the daylight.
The only people that would benefit from the early sun is people who have trouble getting up when its still dark, and those that want sun for exercise before they go to work.

What would you do with the sun at 5am, versus the many things that can be done with the sun at 7, 8, and in some regions 9pm (very little but still light)? Sit there an admire it?

+

You realize that with DST we're just getting up at 5am anyway and calling it 6am, right? And getting off work at 4pm and calling it 5pm, and so forth?
We're already doing what you say "doesn't seem like a feasible practice," and just pretending to ourselves that we're not. I repeat, changing the clock does not change the actual hours in the day. DST doesn't add an extra hour to the day, it doesn't give you more time do things in the daylight. All of that is nonsense. The sun rises and sets according to its own schedule, not ours.

"I don't really care how time is reckoned so long as there is some agreement about it, but I object to being told that I am saving daylight when my reason tells me that I am doing nothing of the kind. I even object to the implication that I am wasting something valuable if I stay in bed after the sun has risen. As an admirer of moonlight I resent the bossy insistence of those who want to reduce my time for enjoying it. At the back of the Daylight Saving scheme I detect the bony, blue-fingered hand of Puritanism, eager to push people into bed earlier, and get them up earlier, to make them healthy, wealthy and wise in spite of themselves." -- Robertson Davies

i realize that nature obviously hasn't changed, but after a single day, our body naturally gets into a rhythmic time cycle.
... ah hell I don't know where to go from here... my brain is fried from two finals today. ugh
hell with it. There is no convincing anyone when they hold a firm stance on something like DST.
I like to perceive that I am waking up at the same time, going to bed at the same time, and get more light in the evening. When all the schedules stick to the same listed hours year round, this perceived effect just works and I don't care... I like it. At least, I like DST. Standard time sucks. Make DST year round. That's all I care about. More time in the evening hours with light. Then that statement about your hours and schedule not changing would be completely void, even though I still don't think it makes sense as it is. But meh, that could just be because my brain is fried and I just want to... well, not use it.

+

 

[jiggahertz]

wow, I didn't know anyone actually disliked DST. I love that first day of DST when I leave work and it's actually light out.

 

[oogabooga]

What's with all the rage against DST this year? Does this pop up ever year and I've just missed it or did daylight savings time kill someone in 2008?

 

[EKKC]

Originally posted by: destrekor


i realize that nature obviously hasn't changed, but after a single day, our body naturally gets into a rhythmic time cycle.
... ah hell I don't know where to go from here... my brain is fried from two finals today. ugh
hell with it. There is no convincing anyone when they hold a firm stance on something like DST.
I like to perceive that I am waking up at the same time, going to bed at the same time, and get more light in the evening. When all the schedules stick to the same listed hours year round, this perceived effect just works and I don't care... I like it. At least, I like DST. Standard time sucks. Make DST year round. That's all I care about. More time in the evening hours with light. Then that statement about your hours and schedule not changing would be completely void, even though I still don't think it makes sense as it is. But meh, that could just be because my brain is fried and I just want to... well, not use it.

+

i agree with most of what you said except about the standard time.

the same logic behind how we use DST so we don't see sunrise at 4am, standard time is needed in the winter so people who lives up north don't wake up at 9am to find out that the sun is slowly creeping up the southeast horizon.

i think the lot of you who are debating the issue need to understand that sunrise/sundown/sunpath varies according to how south/north you live. you have a town in alaska that doesnt see the sun for months.

Again, look at the chart for Edmonton, Calgary. without DST or without Standard time these people would go crazy in winter, sunrising at 9am, or in the summer where the sun would rise at 4am.

http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/edmonton.html

here is an extreme example, to better illustrate (DST or Standard time doesnt matter for these people!):
http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/yellowknife.html

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: oogabooga
What's with all the rage against DST this year? Does this pop up ever year and I've just missed it or did daylight savings time kill someone in 2008?

It's a leap year thing.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: oogabooga
What's with all the rage against DST this year? Does this pop up ever year and I've just missed it or did daylight savings time kill someone in 2008?

Sigh...

First, this isn't a with-us-or-against-us kind of thing. Arguing about the legitimate silliness of DST to people who claim it's gives them an extra hour in the day is not an expression of rage, hate, or anything. Claiming that is just you and few others being tools and ignoring the actual arguments being given.

Second, you must have a poor memory to go with your poor logical skills. Tell us, do you recall any previous years when DST started in March?

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: oogabooga
What's with all the rage against DST this year? Does this pop up ever year and I've just missed it or did daylight savings time kill someone in 2008?

Sigh...

First, this isn't a with-us-or-against-us kind of thing. Arguing about the legitimate silliness of DST to people who claim it's gives them an extra hour in the day is not an expression of rage, hate, or anything. Claiming that is just you and few others being tools and ignoring the actual arguments being given.

Second, you must have a poor memory to go with your poor logical skills. Tell us, do you recall any previous years when DST started in March?

how the time when it starts determine whether its accepted or not?
Didn't they essentially make the DST/Standard Time changes to where its basically a shorter period for standard and longer for DST? I can't remember when the changes usually occurred. I just went week to week and found out somewhere that I had to change my clocks, or windows told me. When it always happened.. hell if I know.

+

 

[QED]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: oogabooga
What's with all the rage against DST this year? Does this pop up ever year and I've just missed it or did daylight savings time kill someone in 2008?

Sigh...

First, this isn't a with-us-or-against-us kind of thing. Arguing about the legitimate silliness of DST to people who claim it's gives them an extra hour in the day is not an expression of rage, hate, or anything. Claiming that is just you and few others being tools and ignoring the actual arguments being given.

Second, you must have a poor memory to go with your poor logical skills. Tell us, do you recall any previous years when DST started in March?

Vic, it seems to be YOU that is ignoring the arguments given.

You keep bringing up the straw man argument about someone actually believing DST gives us an extra hour of daylight, when no such claim has been made. What DST does do is give an extra USEFUL hour of daylight each day by moving it from the morning (when most people are sleeping or getting ready for work) to the evening (when most people are outdoors or doing other activies) in the summertime.

If you do not understand this, then there is no helping you.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: oogabooga
What's with all the rage against DST this year? Does this pop up ever year and I've just missed it or did daylight savings time kill someone in 2008?

Sigh...

First, this isn't a with-us-or-against-us kind of thing. Arguing about the legitimate silliness of DST to people who claim it's gives them an extra hour in the day is not an expression of rage, hate, or anything. Claiming that is just you and few others being tools and ignoring the actual arguments being given.

Second, you must have a poor memory to go with your poor logical skills. Tell us, do you recall any previous years when DST started in March?

I've never known anyone to claim that DST gives them an extra hour in the day, or even an extra hour of daylight in the day. I'm sure there are people who are that stupid, but I certainly haven't seen it myself. You're twisting and/or misinterpreting what people are saying.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: QED

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: oogabooga
What's with all the rage against DST this year? Does this pop up ever year and I've just missed it or did daylight savings time kill someone in 2008?

Sigh...

First, this isn't a with-us-or-against-us kind of thing. Arguing about the legitimate silliness of DST to people who claim it's gives them an extra hour in the day is not an expression of rage, hate, or anything. Claiming that is just you and few others being tools and ignoring the actual arguments being given.

Second, you must have a poor memory to go with your poor logical skills. Tell us, do you recall any previous years when DST started in March?

Vic, it seems to be YOU that is ignoring the arguments given.

You keep bringing up the straw man argument about someone actually believing DST gives us an extra hour of daylight, when no such claim has been made. What DST does do is give an extra USEFUL hour of daylight each day by moving it from the morning (when most people are sleeping or getting ready for work) to the evening (when most people are outdoors or doing other activies) in the summertime.

If you do not understand this, then there is no helping you.

Just ignore him. The sad thing is the haters can't even come up with a reason besides that it's stupid. Fortunately, the vast majority of the country is in favor of DST.

And on that note, I'm going for a run. Yeah, for it not getting dark til 7pm.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: sao123
Apparently a LOT of you dont understand daylight savings time...

Daylight savings time is the SUMMER... its done so you have mroe daylight in the summer instead of sleeping it away (IE without it, it would be daylight at like 5am)...

Standard time... which all of you are complaining about is the Winter time...



PERHAPS what you should be wishing for is permanent DST... not the permanent end of it.

 

[cubby1223]

I like DST. I will say, though, I have some friends who moved out to AZ, and their only gripe is it's a mess keeping track of the tv schedules.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sao123
Apparently a LOT of you dont understand daylight savings time...

Daylight savings time is the SUMMER... its done so you have mroe daylight in the summer instead of sleeping it away (IE without it, it would be daylight at like 5am)...

Standard time... which all of you are complaining about is the Winter time...



PERHAPS what you should be wishing for is permanent DST... not the permanent end of it.

Vic, you just quoted a post that said the exact opposite of what you apparently think it says. That is, if you are using it in support of your claim that people think DST = more total hours of sunlight. Granted, he didn't word it very well - but from the bolded part what he meant is clear.

Originally posted by: cubby1223
I like DST. I will say, though, I have some friends who moved out to AZ, and their only gripe is it's a mess keeping track of the tv schedules.

I went to college in Indiana for 4 years during the no DST days, and that really wasn't a big deal. Nor was it a big deal to remember what time it was in NJ when I needed to call my parents.

 

[EKKC]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: oogabooga
What's with all the rage against DST this year? Does this pop up ever year and I've just missed it or did daylight savings time kill someone in 2008?

Sigh...

First, this isn't a with-us-or-against-us kind of thing. Arguing about the legitimate silliness of DST to people who claim it's gives them an extra hour in the day is not an expression of rage, hate, or anything. Claiming that is just you and few others being tools and ignoring the actual arguments being given.

Second, you must have a poor memory to go with your poor logical skills. Tell us, do you recall any previous years when DST started in March?

duh... 2007?

 

[MotionMan]

I was an hour late to a deposition in Kingman, AZ because of the AZ-no-DST-thing once.

I flew into Vegas and, as I drove over Hoover Dam, I saw the NV time and AZ time clocks on the towers. There was not a lot I could do about it then - no cell service between Hoover and Kingman.

MotionMan

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: MotionMan
I was an hour late to a deposition in Kingman, AZ because of the AZ-no-DST-thing once.

I flew into Vegas and, as I drove over Hoover Dam, I saw the NV time and AZ time clocks on the towers. There was not a lot I could do about it then - no cell service between Hoover and Kingman.

MotionMan

Ever watch the West Wing? There was an episode about that, but it was a missed plane in Indiana when Indiana had three separate areas with different combinations of time zone (eastern/central) and DST (DST/no DST).

 

[Platypus]

What school did you go to mugs?

<-purdue alum