WTF 8800GT for mac

[Jax Omen]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1208339777927.html



What stops them from buying a regular 8800GT for ~$180?

 

[Lithan]

The fact that mac users generally dont know a damn thing about computers and couldn't figure out how to flash the bios on a pc card to get it to work with their mac?

 

[krnmastersgt]

So basically, because the average consumer doesn't know crap about the internals of their computer, they get to sell it for $100 more, wonderful how that works out for companies and their shareholders (who might not know the difference either), no?

 

[Ketherx]

all you would have to do is flash it with a new bios?

 

[BudAshes]

Why not then just buy them up flash bios and sell for profit?

 

[krnmastersgt]

Because people like stuff in the original box with original packaging, no matter how insignificant it might be. And if people understood what it was that allowed them to use a regular GT, no reason they wouldn't find someone they knew that could do it for free instead of paying someone else for it.

 

[Lithan]

Used to be that way... for all I know you may not even have to flash em anymore. But yeah, electronically it should be identical.

 

[v8envy]

In the olden days the cards had support for OpenFirmware, the powermac equivalent of BIOS. If your video card couldn't talk to OpenFirmware you couldn't use your monitor until the OS came up and loaded drivers. Which made troubleshooting boot issues a big problem.

These days I'd be shocked if the boxes contain anything more different than a mac OS driver disk vs a windows disk. But I still wouldn't be adventurous enough to try it on a real mac.

As proof I present the ability to run that card in a hackintosh -- once the OS is loaded and drivers are up and running the OS has 0 problems using a commodity PC card on a commodity PC motherboard with a commodity PC cpu.

 

[panfist]

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Why not then just buy them up flash bios and sell for profit?

Because you'd probably get the crap sued right out of you.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: v8envy
In the olden days the cards had support for OpenFirmware, the powermac equivalent of BIOS. If your video card couldn't talk to OpenFirmware you couldn't use your monitor until the OS came up and loaded drivers. Which made troubleshooting boot issues a big problem.

These days I'd be shocked if the boxes contain anything more different than a mac OS driver disk vs a windows disk. But I still wouldn't be adventurous enough to try it on a real mac.

The video card firmware is still different, Mac video cards need to support certain EFI features that traditional video cards don't. Furthermore the firmware for the Intel Mac video cards is 128KB, as opposed to 64KB for PC video cards, so you can't just flash a PC card.

As for the price, it's a custom built low-volume part. It's going to cost more just because there are fewer people to spread the R&D costs around to.

 

[Piuc2020]

You guys are giving Mac users much less credit than they deserve, stereotypes are a sign of ignorance and stupidity, computer techies are a minority in both the PC and Macintosh ends of the spectrum.

Intel Macs uses EFI and PCs use BIOS, the firmware inside the 8800GT rom is just different (it's actually quite bigger on the Mac) flashing is possible but it's not always a trouble-free experience. Even if you have to spend a little bit more, just buying it and getting it to work right out of the box is one of the things that makes Mac computers so great. Flashing the card also requires a previous dump which in the case of the 8800GT... was NOWHERE to be found up until now (because it didn't exist), PC video cards could be recognized under boot-camp but never on Mac OSX. Currently the ONLY way to get a PC videocard to work properly under Windows and Mac OSX is if a Mac version already exists so you have a firmware to flash.

Hackintosh is a different case altogether and doesn't prove anything because the card is still recognized and running on a bios-powered computer.

It just seems lately people can't give NVIDIA some ****ing credit, they criticize everything they do like they are the ones who know all about semiconductors and the market.

 

[Lithan]

To be honest it's not us who's making mac users look bad. It's the mac ads, they basically say, "Hey, you! You're a retard who can't tell his ass from a hole in the ground... buy a mac cause PC's are too complex!"

 

[phexac]

Originally posted by: Lithan
To be honest it's not us who's making mac users look bad. It's the mac ads, they basically say, "Hey, you! You're a retard who can't tell his ass from a hole in the ground... buy a mac cause PC's are too complex!"

haha yes

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
You guys are giving Mac users much less credit than they deserve, stereotypes are a sign of ignorance and stupidity, computer techies are a minority in both the PC and Macintosh ends of the spectrum.

Intel Macs uses EFI and PCs use BIOS, the firmware inside the 8800GT rom is just different (it's actually quite bigger on the Mac) flashing is possible but it's not always a trouble-free experience. Even if you have to spend a little bit more, just buying it and getting it to work right out of the box is one of the things that makes Mac computers so great. Flashing the card also requires a previous dump which in the case of the 8800GT... was NOWHERE to be found up until now (because it didn't exist), PC video cards could be recognized under boot-camp but never on Mac OSX. Currently the ONLY way to get a PC videocard to work properly under Windows and Mac OSX is if a Mac version already exists so you have a firmware to flash.

Hackintosh is a different case altogether and doesn't prove anything because the card is still recognized and running on a bios-powered computer.

It just seems lately people can't give NVIDIA some ****ing credit, they criticize everything they do like they are the ones who know all about semiconductors and the market.

^^ :laugh: Well stated.

The "hack" a lot of people think of when they think of PC to mac card conversion, is you have to unsolder the 64k chip and put on the 128k chip, and then flash it by booting up with a primary video card that's different than the one being flashed. This works on the old school Radeon 9800 ATI graphics card because everything else on the hardware was the same. Last time I heard though this only worked with the ATI cards, unless someone has hacked the 8800 GT Nvidia cards to do something similar.

At the time when this hack came out it was extremely popular simply because the OS supported the advanced graphics options but on an older mac (like the quicksilver) you simply couldn't even buy a card with that level of power. I have a Radeon 9800 ATI at home that was modded in this way.

To me though, it's worth paying a few extra bucks to not have to worry about unsoldering a chip from the video card because if you don't know what you're doing you could fry the card potentially, not to mention void the warranty.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: Lithan
To be honest it's not us who's making mac users look bad. It's the mac ads, they basically say, "Hey, you! You're a retard who can't tell his ass from a hole in the ground... buy a mac cause PC's are too complex!"

To play devil's advocate, as someone who owns 2 macs and has built at least 11 PC's, the mac "experience" as it were is a lot smoother than the PC one at times. You don't have to hunt around for every specific driver, and you get a feel that things just work. This actually confused me when I first got an iMac as I was hunting around for specific drivers and what-not but realized I really didn't have to mess with anything.

I have run just about every MS OS from DOS 6.22, windows 3.11, NT, 95, 98, 2000, XP, and Vista 64 bit, and to be honest sometimes working out the kinks in an OS can be a pain in the neck. For example I had a BSOD issue with vista 64 that I spent 2 days working on and finally nailed it down to a particular driver revision that didn't play well with vista, that wasn't documented hardly anywhere except on a few messageboards scattered around. Nowhere on the manufacturer site did it mention that one driver revision was better / more stable than another.

I struggled numerous days trying to just get certain things to work, and after lots of tweaking got it working, but with the iMac I didn't have to deal with anything like that, just installed the OS, ran the setup wizard and was good to go. The iMac I got was mainly for my fiance, who has had all sorts of trouble with PC's, and she adapted to it very quickly.

Main problems with Mac is all the proprietary stuff is very expensive, example being Apple wanted $75 to send me a replacement 120mm fan on my quicksilver after the warranty ran out... $75 for a friggin fan that should cost maybe $9- $10 max.

 

[sutahz]

But dude, its a mac, it JUST works.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

macs are awesome. If it wasn't for games, I don't see any reason to keep my Vista install.
(I'm on a hackintosh)

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: Juddog
You don't have to hunt around for every specific driver

Well sure, because you don't actually have any options.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: Juddog
You don't have to hunt around for every specific driver

Well sure, because you don't actually have any options.

that sums it up...

I remember bringing up how in berlin the public transport is so well developed that you don't actually need a car. and can choose to go without.
I was answered "well here in america we have the freedom to ALL own a car". I fail to see how having only ONE option instead of two is a freedom.

So back to topic. generalization isn't a sign of ignorance and stupity, its a sign of a keen observant mind. And generalizations are generally true. That is why we make them. Appl is ripping you off, extra development costs? what extra development costs? its the same card with a slightly different bios. THERE ARE NO DEVELOPMENT COSTS. There is just the insignificantly small cost of programming a different BIOS.

That being said. all the PC sellers are also overcharging.. You can always buy their cheapest system and put in RAM, Video card, HDD, etc yourself for less money...
Or you could just BUILD your entire system yourself. Thats the whole point, people are unaware and are afraid to try. So they provide a service of building the system for them, at increasingly larger profit margins (the more expensive the computer, the bigger their cut).

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: Lithan
To be honest it's not us who's making mac users look bad. It's the mac ads, they basically say, "Hey, you! You're a retard who can't tell his ass from a hole in the ground... buy a mac cause PC's are too complex!"

Regardless of how you feel about Macs, the ads are correct that PC's are too complex for the general population.

 

[nanaki333]

i found that my macbook, sporting better specs than some of my older desktops at work running XP, loaded applications so much slower. my macbook is the 2.2ghz core2duo, 2GB ram, 160GB HDD. i rarely use my mac for that reason alone. that and it constantly drops my wireless connection or DNS just stops functioning randomly, despite me even setting one for it to use.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: gersson
macs are awesome. If it wasn't for games, I don't see any reason to keep my Vista install.
(I'm on a hackintosh)

Yeah, but that is kinda a big deal for me...

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: nanaki333
that and it constantly drops my wireless connection or DNS just stops functioning randomly

I have a friend who has this problem as well. On a PC somebody would have found a firmware hack for it or something...

As for the ads, they mostly tell me that I'm not enough of a smug jerk to want a Mac.

 

[nanaki333]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: nanaki333
that and it constantly drops my wireless connection or DNS just stops functioning randomly

I have a friend who has this problem as well. On a PC somebody would have found a firmware hack for it or something...

As for the ads, they mostly tell me that I'm not enough of a smug jerk to want a Mac.

i thought i would fill the part perfectly. i chose the mac, but the mac did not choose me i guess.

 

[mooncancook]

I don't see how such a minor change will cost $100 more, maybe Apple is charging royalties to put its logo on the box