Wreckage needs some type of remediation

[ShadowOfMyself]

've often wondered what it is about being an Nvidia fan that causes so many people to go completely overboard in their promotion/defense of that particular company.

Same here, while a rabid ATI fanboy may show up from time to time, its very rare compared to Nvidia ones... IT seems NV fans have alot of trouble acknowledging the success of their competitor (now AMD)

If you think about the GTX 8800, the whole forum agreed it was the ultimate card and rocked everything ATI had to offer... But when AMD comes up with an amazing price/performance launch with the 4850/70, or just simply takes the lead (x1900xtx), NV fans always set up this resistance using any arguments they can get their hands on

Thats what makes me hate them more than anything, and as said before, those rabid fanboys make me hate the company more than anything... While I still consider myself unbiased, I cant help but associate them with Nvidia and lean towards AMD because of that

 

[Keysplayr]

What usually happens with NV or ATI fans is, whichever company seems to be ahead, whether it be in terms of performance (which is usually the top priority with dedicated fans), price/performance, features or whatever, the corresponding fans are at that time the loudest and most protective of their favorite company. It's a tide that goes back and forth. Many of you have a perception that NV fans have been the loudest as far back as you can remember. Well, you might mean since the G80 came out. Before that, I believe ATI had the edge with X19xx series, and I can surely remember ATI fans letting everyone know that was the case. Don't you?
It's a tide. ATI fans were quiet for a long time. From G80 launch all the way up until the 4xxx series launch. That's quite a long time and a few gens worth of dissappointment on the ATI side. 2900 series and 3800 series were pretty much meh and didn't quite give ATI fans some solid legs to stand on. 4xxx series changed that a bit, although not completely because of GTX280. ATI fans got louder for sure, but not like they were in the x19xx days.

It kind of makes sense, fair weather fans. The tides usually change, but sometimes it takes a bit longer than usual.
In my honest opinion.

Keys

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Still its pretty sad that these people have to bring up every possible argument into the equation to tip the scale, and its hilarious how they always fall into double standards

Case in point, Nv fans using the low power consumption and heat to favor the 7900 series since performance wise it was behind, but when Nvidia released the monster 8800 card, it was suddenly not an issue anymore, but now, when discussing the GTS 250 card, these fans yet again bring those 2 points to compensate for the lack of performance...Anyhow most members here are able to have a decent discussion, its a nice forum as long as the rabid couple stays out

 

[olds]

You guys are just pissed because nvidia sucks and ATI rocks.

 

[Keysplayr]

What you describe, Shadow, happens both ways all the time. You know it does, and my little narrative above probably explains why you place emphasis on NV fans. Understandable.
First time posting from a Blackberry so I don't know if this will work. 🙂

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
You guys are just pissed because nvidia sucks and ATI rocks.

Step into Video and say that 😛

:laugh:

 

[Creig]

X-bit once wrote an article that echos our observations regarding the difference between Nvidia and ATI fans. Note: this article came out before ATI/AMD merged, so ATI and AMD are mentioned as separate companies.

FanATIcs vs. Nvidia Fanboys: Statistics

This page may offend some of our readers and forum posters. We admit. Sorry. But we honestly think that it makes sense to post this kind of thoughts here rather than encourage witch hunting, which have already begun in multiply forums.

Those who admire products by Advanced Micro Devices and Nvidia Corp. are a way more aggressive in the forums and against the journalists compared to those who prefer products by ATI Technologies and Intel Corp. This is an observation that has been made in several years. We do not know why this theory works, but we do believe that the people do not receive salaries from the aforementioned companies.

The most recent example: at least three readers pointed out, in a quite aggressive way, that some of the GeForce 7800-based graphics cards, certain models from certain manufacturers, supported dual-link DVI outputs to support those ?well-known? and ?wide-spread? 30? displays in a response to our claim that users of those high-end monitors should choose ATI Radeon X1000-based accelerators to drive those LCDs properly. No adorer of the Radeon products pointed out that there are some Radeon X1600- and X1300-based graphics cards from some manufacturers that feature passive cooling systems in a response to our allegations of noisy cooling systems on reference designs of the mentioned products.

Another example: X-bit labs has been (re-)using results obtained on Catalyst version 5.9 with Radeon X1000 support for all its graphics cards? reviews in October and November last year (there were exceptions made for Doom III and Quake 4 benchmarks conducted using Catalyst 5.10a drivers which brought significant performance improvements for these two games) with only two objections made in a very polite way be our readers. Once we engaged Catalyst 5.12 in a review dated the 8th of December, 2005 , we were requested in a very aggressive manner by numerous readers to use Nvidia ForceWare 81.95 drivers dated November 23 and updated on December 9, 2005.

We have received numerous accusations of bias when we reviewed flagship ATI Radeon X1800 XT and X1900 XTX series and none when we reviewed Nvidia GeForce 7800 GTX and 7800 GTX 512 products.

For the sake of the truth we have to admit that several weeks ago we received a very emotional complain from a man claiming that his Nvidia nForce4-based mainboard did not satisfy his needs and that officials do not want to respond to him in support forums. When asked to clarify the issues, the reader has vanished into oblivion.

We do not think that people who write us and make their points are getting paid by certain companies, even though such way of pressing on the media would be very efficient. We do like all of our commentators: luckily, the majority of them really make pretty interesting points. We encourage them to write and comment and we do not know why some behave the way they do. At the end of the day, everybody prefers products he or she likes for some reason and nobody should try to offend him or her because of that.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...accusations2006_5.html

Apparently this phenomenon is not just limited to the AT forums.

It's hard to believe that they would publish this observation if they didn't truly believe it. I'm sure they knew they'd catch a lot of flak after it hit the net, yet they went ahead with it anyway.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Creig
X-bit once wrote an article that echos our observations regarding the difference between Nvidia and ATI fans. Note: this article came out before ATI/AMD merged, so ATI and AMD are mentioned as separate companies.

FanATIcs vs. Nvidia Fanboys: Statistics

This page may offend some of our readers and forum posters. We admit. Sorry. But we honestly think that it makes sense to post this kind of thoughts here rather than encourage witch hunting, which have already begun in multiply forums.

Those who admire products by Advanced Micro Devices and Nvidia Corp. are a way more aggressive in the forums and against the journalists compared to those who prefer products by ATI Technologies and Intel Corp. This is an observation that has been made in several years. We do not know why this theory works, but we do believe that the people do not receive salaries from the aforementioned companies.

The most recent example: at least three readers pointed out, in a quite aggressive way, that some of the GeForce 7800-based graphics cards, certain models from certain manufacturers, supported dual-link DVI outputs to support those ?well-known? and ?wide-spread? 30? displays in a response to our claim that users of those high-end monitors should choose ATI Radeon X1000-based accelerators to drive those LCDs properly. No adorer of the Radeon products pointed out that there are some Radeon X1600- and X1300-based graphics cards from some manufacturers that feature passive cooling systems in a response to our allegations of noisy cooling systems on reference designs of the mentioned products.

Another example: X-bit labs has been (re-)using results obtained on Catalyst version 5.9 with Radeon X1000 support for all its graphics cards? reviews in October and November last year (there were exceptions made for Doom III and Quake 4 benchmarks conducted using Catalyst 5.10a drivers which brought significant performance improvements for these two games) with only two objections made in a very polite way be our readers. Once we engaged Catalyst 5.12 in a review dated the 8th of December, 2005 , we were requested in a very aggressive manner by numerous readers to use Nvidia ForceWare 81.95 drivers dated November 23 and updated on December 9, 2005.

We have received numerous accusations of bias when we reviewed flagship ATI Radeon X1800 XT and X1900 XTX series and none when we reviewed Nvidia GeForce 7800 GTX and 7800 GTX 512 products.

For the sake of the truth we have to admit that several weeks ago we received a very emotional complain from a man claiming that his Nvidia nForce4-based mainboard did not satisfy his needs and that officials do not want to respond to him in support forums. When asked to clarify the issues, the reader has vanished into oblivion.

We do not think that people who write us and make their points are getting paid by certain companies, even though such way of pressing on the media would be very efficient. We do like all of our commentators: luckily, the majority of them really make pretty interesting points. We encourage them to write and comment and we do not know why some behave the way they do. At the end of the day, everybody prefers products he or she likes for some reason and nobody should try to offend him or her because of that.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...accusations2006_5.html

Apparently this phenomenon is not just limited to the AT forums.

It's hard to believe that they would publish this observation if they didn't truly believe it. I'm sure they knew they'd catch a lot of flak after it hit the net, yet they went ahead with it anyway.

Your post just failed so hard it made my head hurt. Read it again, and report back.


(For the non-techies: AMD = ATi)

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Your post just failed so hard it made my head hurt. Read it again, and report back.


(For the non-techies: AMD = ATi)

Your post just failed so hard it made my head hurt. Read it again, and report back.


(For the OCguys: AMD and ATI completed their merger in 2007. Article date? 😉)


---------------------
For those that are click link handicapped

02/06/2006


Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Your post just failed so hard it made my head hurt. Read it again, and report back.


(For the non-techies: AMD = ATi)

(*sigh*) Reading comprehension FTL.

In your haste to make light of my post, you obviously failed to realize that this was a direct quote of an article published on X-bit before the ATI/AMD merger. If you had bothered to fully read what I had posted, you would have noticed the following information I provided:

Note: this article came out before ATI/AMD merged, so ATI and AMD are mentioned as separate companies.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Your post just failed so hard it made my head hurt. Read it again, and report back.


(For the non-techies: AMD = ATi)

Your post just failed so hard it made my head hurt. Read it again, and report back.


(For the OCguys: AMD and ATI completed their merger in 2007. Article date? 😉)

Right, but he posted the article in 2009.

Most of the diehard ATi fanboys have AMD chips in their sig.

It is the same "David v Goliath" mentality:

Intel and nV = bad

ATi and AMD = good.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Your post just failed so hard it made my head hurt. Read it again, and report back.


(For the non-techies: AMD = ATi)

Your post just failed so hard it made my head hurt. Read it again, and report back.


(For the OCguys: AMD and ATI completed their merger in 2007. Article date? 😉)

Right, but he posted the article in 2009.

Most of the diehard ATi fanboys have AMD chips in their sig.

It is the same "David v Goliath" mentality:

Intel and nV = bad

ATi and AMD = good.

Yes, but from the Nvidia fan PoV


Intel and nV = High Quality, bleeding edge

ATi and AMD = 2nd rate cheap alternative

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Intel and nV = High Quality, bleeding edge

ATi and AMD = 2nd rate cheap alternative

Just a question for those of us out of the loop, I assume these Video Cards cost a small fortune. What makes them worth so much money and how come theres so much bickering over which one is the best? To most of us getting ones panties in a twist over Video Cards seems rather foolish.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: thilan29
---------------------
For those that are click link handicapped

02/06/2006


Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

I'm not sure if this was pointed at me but I actually read the article and know the date (hence the wink). I was pointing out the date to someone who didn't fully read it.

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Right, but he posted the article in 2009.

So? He didn't hide the date and actually said in his post that it was from before the merger.

Most of the diehard ATi fanboys have AMD chips in their sig.

It is the same "David v Goliath" mentality:

Intel and nV = bad

ATi and AMD = good.

Now you're just clutching at straws (are you implying anyone with an AMD cpu and an ATI card could be a diehard AMD fanboy? By the same logic anyone with an Intel CPU and nV GPU could be a diehard Intel/nV fanboy? I'm sure you realize that's stretching it a bit). I guess I should fit into that category too then?? Except my last 2 cards were NV and my last CPU was Intel (I'm actually a bit of an Intel fanboy...moreso than an ATI fanboy) so I don't think it's so black and white. Also, can you point out some of these "diehard ATi fanboys"? Like the article pointed out...they seem to be much less vocal than the nV ones so it's hard to see who they are.

There has been almost no argument about who rules the CPU segment for a couple of years in terms of performance and I don't think there would be many to argue that. The only saving grace for AMD CPUs before Phenom II came out were that they were very price competitive so there was some argument there (the main reason I got this Phenom was that it was the cheapest quad core at the time in Canada AND it came with an unlocked multiplier).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: apoppin
Intel and nV = High Quality, bleeding edge

ATi and AMD = 2nd rate cheap alternative

Just a question for those of us out of the loop, I assume these Video Cards cost a small fortune. What makes them worth so much money and how come theres so much bickering over which one is the best? To most of us getting ones panties in a twist over Video Cards seems rather foolish.

Hey, i just got quoted out of context 😛
- Video is spilling over into PFI

Nvidia FANS perceive ATi as being 2nd Rate

For *me* personally, i LOVE both companies .. i am a very satisfied owner of a GTX280 that i paid $350 for Last Summer [but i got screwed on the Rebate when BFG's rebate company went OoB] .. i also bought a Brand new 4870X-2 when it first came out for $469 and another 4870 for CrossFireX-3 [$250]; for the last 2 years i have bounced back and forth - often with competing cards at the same time

Now .. 6 months later, i can get each one brand new for about $100 each less than i paid for them - or sell them for a relatively steep loss

So no matter what, your "investment" looses value .. BUT ,, during that time it is *The Best* ,, and one is able to play the Very Latest PC games better than anyone else
- it is actually "insanity" .. a group "gang" mentality that is not new ... it happens with Automobiles and their fan clubs[which the Video card vendors imitate and even copy their names - i.e. "GTX" ... "XL" .. "XT"... etc.]

To you guys that do not really *care* about how "perfect" or how "fast" you PC games run or look - it DOES make no sense - this endless bickering and bragging; but then does P&N .. or most OT discussions .. make ANY sense?
😕

it is all "entertainment"
- imo .. and some of us even make money on it

 

[CP5670]

Now you're just clutching at straws (are you implying anyone with an AMD cpu and an ATI card could be a diehard AMD fanboy? By the same logic anyone with an Intel CPU and nV GPU could be a diehard Intel/nV fanboy? I'm sure you realize that's stretching it a bit). I guess I should fit into that category too then?? Except my last 2 cards were NV and my last CPU was Intel (I'm actually a bit of an Intel fanboy...moreso than an ATI fanboy) so I don't think it's so black and white. Also, can you point out some of these "diehard ATi fanboys"? Like the article pointed out...they seem to be much less vocal than the nV ones so it's hard to see who they are.

There are a few of them, but they post a lot less often than the Nvidia ones, so they don't really balance each other out.

Are you talking about Nemesis1? :Q

I think it's obvious. 😛 The guy already had a nice account history, so it wouldn't be far fetched.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Your post just failed so hard it made my head hurt. Read it again, and report back.


(For the non-techies: AMD = ATi)

Your post just failed so hard it made my head hurt. Read it again, and report back.


(For the OCguys: AMD and ATI completed their merger in 2007. Article date? 😉)

Right, but he posted the article in 2009.

Most of the diehard ATi fanboys have AMD chips in their sig.

It is the same "David v Goliath" mentality:

Intel and nV = bad

ATi and AMD = good.

I think this doesnt apply at all, seeing as how the majority of AMD gpu users are pairing it with Intel cpus (and rightfully so, seeing they are superior)

And that right there is the meaning of "unbiased", or "faithful to your wallet" 😛

To me the concept of paying more for less just because of brand loyalty is ridiculous, but to each their own

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: apoppin
Intel and nV = High Quality, bleeding edge

ATi and AMD = 2nd rate cheap alternative

Just a question for those of us out of the loop, I assume these Video Cards cost a small fortune. What makes them worth so much money and how come theres so much bickering over which one is the best? To most of us getting ones panties in a twist over Video Cards seems rather foolish.

the reason is nvidia pays people to come on the forum and act as a consumer of the product and then spread misinformation. It's called viral marketing and it works.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: apoppin

*Yes, but from the Nvidia fan PoV

Intel and nV = High Quality, bleeding edge

ATi and AMD = 2nd rate cheap alternative

Just a question for those of us out of the loop, I assume these Video Cards cost a small fortune. What makes them worth so much money and how come theres so much bickering over which one is the best? To most of us getting ones panties in a twist over Video Cards seems rather foolish.

the reason is nvidia pays people to come on the forum and act as a consumer of the product and then spread misinformation. It's called viral marketing and it works.

That is what *you* just did with a blast of your own FUD 😛

Nvidia does NOT "pay people" to do what you just falsely claimed that they do; It is damn close to slander to suggest without basis that any legitimate company pays people to spread misinformation
:roll:

However, "viral marketing" - which is legal but is generally not considered ethical - is pervasive and many vendors use it even less transparently than Nvidia has in their past recent history

* and i fixed my quote after another member butchered it
- Look at my sig; i "promote" CFX-3, what some Nvidia fans consider a '2nd rate cheap alternative' - but then i ALSO have a GTX280 which i also use and love
.. and i have 4.0 Ghz C2Q Intel Q9550S ES Penryn but i'd dearly love to also have a Phenom II setup. It is all great HW to appreciate, use and benchmark.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: apoppin

*Yes, but from the Nvidia fan PoV

Intel and nV = High Quality, bleeding edge

ATi and AMD = 2nd rate cheap alternative

Just a question for those of us out of the loop, I assume these Video Cards cost a small fortune. What makes them worth so much money and how come theres so much bickering over which one is the best? To most of us getting ones panties in a twist over Video Cards seems rather foolish.

the reason is nvidia pays people to come on the forum and act as a consumer of the product and then spread misinformation. It's called viral marketing and it works.

That is what *you* just did with a blast of your own FUD 😛

Nvidia does NOT "pay people" to do what you just falsely claimed that they do; It is damn close to slander to suggest without basis that any legitimate company pays people to spread misinformation
:roll:

However, "viral marketing" - which is legal but is generally not considered ethical - is pervasive and many vendors use it even less transparently than Nvidia has in their past recent history

* and i fixed my quote after another member butchered it
- Look at my sig; i "promote" CFX-3, what some Nvidia fans consider a '2nd rate cheap alternative' - but then i ALSO have a GTX280 which i also use and love
.. and i have 4.0 Ghz C2Q Intel Q9550S ES Penryn but i'd dearly love to also have a Phenom II setup. It is all great HW to appreciate, use and benchmark.

Well i know that you would have to pay me to sit there and tweak quotes to make an argument. The amount of time spent "arguing" is staggering and you will only find this kind of devotion with someone getting "something" out of it.

 

[apoppin]

Well i know that you would have to pay me to sit there and tweak quotes to make an argument. The amount of time spent "arguing" is staggering and you will only find this kind of devotion with someone getting "something" out of it.

i dunno .. i see many people twisting the truth for "free"

Perhaps they get a 'kick' out of it

imo they should get one
😛

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Well i know that you would have to pay me to sit there and tweak quotes to make an argument. The amount of time spent "arguing" is staggering and you will only find this kind of devotion with someone getting "something" out of it.

i dunno .. i see many people twisting the truth for "free"

Perhaps they get a 'kick' out of it

imo they should get one
😛

I look at the posts Chizow makes and I think to myself that it would take me literally *hours* to do what he does, each and every day. Not only that, but he gets belligerent, as can be seen by his vacation.

That said, AZN tends to engage Chizow and writes about as much as he does. Perhaps we have people compensated by both sides on here, engaged in a sort of propaganda war. IMO they should all be gotten rid of so we can have real discussions about real things.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: apoppin

Well i know that you would have to pay me to sit there and tweak quotes to make an argument. The amount of time spent "arguing" is staggering and you will only find this kind of devotion with someone getting "something" out of it.

i dunno .. i see many people twisting the truth for "free"

Perhaps they get a 'kick' out of it

imo they should get one
😛

I look at the posts Chizow makes and I think to myself that it would take me literally *hours* to do what he does, each and every day. Not only that, but he gets belligerent, as can be seen by his vacation.

That said, AZN tends to engage Chizow and writes about as much as he does. Perhaps we have people compensated by both sides on here, engaged in a sort of propaganda war. IMO they should all be gotten rid of so we can have real discussions about real things.

Well they are mostly C&Ps that get longer and longer
--the only thing that gets added is rudeness

i used to write a lot in my posts too; always trying to answer what i thought was FUD or simple ignorance .. then tbh i thought about getting paid for it, also
- i went about it in a much different way perhaps

you have to realize that forums are also *entertainment* .. besides serious discussions they are a way for many to give their PoV and unwind or relax a bit with like minded HW enthusiasts or fellow gamers
- it is a chance to interact beyond asking simple questions

You may be visualizing a dull world indeed where you got "rid of" a LOT of people - and discussion - who don't 'fit' into it 😛

 

[JSt0rm]

not a lot of people. It's pretty easy to tell who has a vested interest in this stuff. This stuff is really common on forums. I'm not saying anandtech will be able to cleans it all, they won't but like I said if I owned this place somebody would be paying $ for this kind of advertisement. Of course maybe these guys actually work for ati and are here to give nvidia a bad name 😛 because they aren't doing a good job of making anybody "feel good" about giving money to nvidia.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
not a lot of people. It's pretty easy to tell who has a vested interest in this stuff. This stuff is really common on forums. I'm not saying anandtech will be able to cleans it all, they won't but like I said if I owned this place somebody would be paying $ for this kind of advertisement. Of course maybe these guys actually work for ati and are here to give nvidia a bad name 😛 because they aren't doing a good job of making anybody "feel good" about giving money to nvidia.

Yeah that would have been my response also. There are only 3 or 4 really disruptive posters in Video that need to be dealt with. Thankfully they seem to be going after a couple of them. Things have been quite peaceful since they were sent on a holiday.