Wow, the Germans had damn good pilots in WW2

[Baked]

Probably got auto aim. Cheaters.

 

[MiniDoom]

Don't fuck with Dick Bong!!!

 

[pauldun170]

If you scroll...and scroll and scroll you will eventually get to the ACES from the US.

 

[Ichinisan]

Check this list out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_flying_aces

If you scroll...and scroll and scroll you will eventually get to the ACES from the US.

Same list from OP.

 

[BUTCH1]

The 51 was not a significantly better fighter, what set it apart was the ability to lean it out and cruise deep into Germany and support the bombers all the way to and from missions. It had tremendous range.

IIRC it was the addition of "drop tanks" the added the extra endurance. Supposedly the 109 was an excellent dog-fighter but was more difficult to master than the 51 and has already mentioned too many good pilots were being lost, it got to the point where they hid the planes in bushes along roads, we had already shot up most all of their air bases..

 

[pauldun170]

Kinda pointless to directly compare planes.
Each theater involved different doctrine\tactics.

 

[pauldun170]

:awe:

Same list from OP.

:awe::awe::awe::awe::awe::awe::awe::awe:

 

[Fayd]

The statistics that come out of World War II are still mind boggling. That time period, the individual accomplishments (both good and evil), combined paint a picture of what is capable when humanity is operating at its full potential. Sadly that effort was spent on war, but still I am continually stunned by WWII.

The full potential of a country in general will never be exercised on anything BUT war.

 

[tynopik]

IIRC it was the addition of "drop tanks" the added the extra endurance. Supposedly the 109 was an excellent dog-fighter but was more difficult to master than the 51 and has already mentioned too many good pilots were being lost, it got to the point where they hid the planes in bushes along roads, we had already shot up most all of their air bases..

the biggest factor is that we absolutely buried them production wise

As for aircraft, the United States had produced 324,750, averaging 170 a day since 1942. That was more than the Soviet Union and Great Britain combined, although the U.S. supplied enough raw materials to enable those two allies to be the number two and number three airplane producers in World War II, respectively.

 

[tynopik]

from 1940 -1945, US alone built:
- 141 aircraft carriers
- 8 battleships
- 807 cruisers, destroyers and destroyer escorts
- 203 submarines
- 2,710 Liberty ships (freighters)
- 88,410 tanks and self-propelled guns
- 2.4 million trucks

 

[pauldun170]

from 1940 -1945, US alone built:
- 141 aircraft carriers
- 8 battleships
- 807 cruisers, destroyers and destroyer escorts
- 203 submarines
- 2,710 Liberty ships (freighters)
- 88,410 tanks and self-propelled guns
- 2.4 million trucks

Compare that to the Soviets...the ones who did most of the actual "war" thing against the Germans.

US built a lot of crap...and sent a good chunk of that to the Pacific where our priorities really were.
When focused squarely on the European theater, I wouldn't be surprised if the Soviets were the largest producers of equipment and general "pew pew" stuff.


Germans were getting there ass kicked by the Soviets before we even entered the war.
we were getting our asses handed to us by the Japanese until 42
the allies did ok overall in Africa but that was really a combined effort.

why the hell I'm posting this late?

 

[tynopik]

Compare that to the Soviets...the ones who did most of the actual "war" thing against the Germans.

already did

the United States had produced 324,750, averaging 170 a day since 1942. That was more than the Soviet Union and Great Britain combined

also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_aircraft_production

the production ramp from 1939 is 1943 is astonishing

US built a lot of crap...and sent a good chunk of that to the Pacific where our priorities really were.

the US had a strong 'Europe First' policy

When focused squarely on the European theater, I wouldn't be surprised if the Soviets were the largest producers of equipment and general "pew pew" stuff.

per wiki:

Soviet tank production outstripped all other nations with the exception of the United States.

Germans were getting there ass kicked by the Soviets before we even entered the war.

Stalingrad didn't start till Aug '42


edit: more detail account of who produced what
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_II

regardless of whether US or USSR produced more of a certain item, point remains that Germany never had a chance as it was getting absolutely buried production-wise.

 

[adlep]

During the WW2 Nazi Germany was a center of technical innovation:
1. First Jet Fighter - Me-262. It was like awesome.
2. First Jet Bomber - Ar-234
3. Ejection seats
4. Night Vision
5. Assault Rifle - Stg44
6. Remote Controlled Missiles and Bombs
7. I think - the first computer (Konrad Zuse) - the Z3
8. Tiger Tank was a great tank featuring power steering and an automatic transmission
9. The ElectroBoat submarine - a benchmark for the friken years to come. Years ahead of everybody else.
10. Werner Von Braun - V2 rockets. He build Apollo Space Rocket. NASA took over the Nazi research. Years ahead of everybody else.
11. Ah, yeah - the first operational helicopters...
12. Hitler's zipper - MG42 machine gun.

 

[TallBill]

During the WW2 Nazi Germany was a center of technical innovation:
1. First Jet Fighter - Me-262. It was like awesome.
2. First Jet Bomber - Ar-234
3. Ejection seats
4. Night Vision
5. Assault Rifle - Stg44
6. Remote Controlled Missiles and Bombs
7. I think - the first computer (Konrad Zuse) - the Z3
8. Tiger Tank was a great tank featuring power steering and an automatic transmission
9. The ElectroBoat submarine - a benchmark for the friken years to come. Years ahead of everybody else.
10. Werner Von Braun - V2 rockets. He build Apollo Space Rocket. NASA took over the Nazi research. Years ahead of everybody else.
11. Ah, yeah - the first operational helicopters...
12. Hitler's zipper - MG42 machine gun.

THey also used horses to move their equipment. The US was able to produce like fucking crazy. Sure the Sherman might have been a shitty tank, but when you have a 4:1 advantage and can keep them coming....

If they had come up with the 262 a year earlier it could have been very bad but fortunately they couldn't produce, fuel, or put the best pilots in them.

The other stuff, while impressive, didn't make a huge impact on the war.

 

[adlep]

THey also used horses to move their equipment. The US was able to produce like fucking crazy. Sure the Sherman might have been a shitty tank, but when you have a 4:1 advantage and can keep them coming....

If they had come up with the 262 a year earlier it could have been very bad but fortunately they couldn't produce, fuel, or put the best pilots in them.

The other stuff, while impressive, didn't make a huge impact on the war.

You are missing the point. The tiger tank was the best tank of the war, but it was too complex to produce and as such it was a waste of resources...

From the engineering/scientific stand point though, ze Krauts were truly a breed of "Übermensch" - nothing came close. Case and point - the rocket program.

 

[TallBill]

Oh I know. Not disagreeing with you.

 

[adlep]

Oh I know. Not disagreeing with you.

http://youtu.be/Q_0z1kvM6ns

Interesting

 

[TallBill]

There goes at least an hour of my time tomorrow. Will definitely watch!

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

I saw a documentary on NG a few days ago about the capitulation of Japan where they mentioned that Japan didn't plan on surrendering after the nukes at all, that they only decided to do so when they couldn't keep the Soviets from declaring war with diplomacy and were afraid they'd conquer Tokio and do away with the Imperial family. Never knew that.

And more on topic: The top german pilot from WW I ('the Red Baron') had double the kills of the top US pilot from WW II. But in both WWs Germany had superior planes and well-trained pilots. The US and UK often recruited new pilots, gave them a short training, and sent them to fight. Simply because they suddenly increased the number of planes hugely and therefor didn't have trained pilots for all of those planes.
Even if you are a natural fighter pilot you are still at a disadvantage if it's one of your first fights and you are up against a natural who does have extensive training and combat experience.

And I guess the bomb raids helped with the kill counts on both sides too, as the fighters protecting the bombers couldn't give chase too far without leaving the bombers unprotected. So they were pretty vulnerable compared to the defenders.

 

[Scotteq]

....
The F4U was shorter range but IIRC reportedly shit for carrier-based ops. I'm guessing that was the US's best dogfighter, though?....

Heh - The F4U was called "The Ensign Eliminator" by the Navy because it was a tail~dragger with a long, fat nose {necessary because of the aircraft's air cooled Radial engine}. Made it kind of hard to see the carrier's flight deck while on approach. :ninja:

It was fast, though - IIRC, for single engined fighters only the Thunderbolt was faster, and then really only at high altitudes because the Tbolt had a different Supercharger design.

The famously bent wing was in order to put a larger propeller on the Corsair without chewing up the pavement... much... :biggrin:

 

[BladeVenom]

Heh - The F4U was called "The Ensign Eliminator" by the Navy because it was a tail~dragger with a long, fat nose {necessary because of the aircraft's air cooled Radial engine}. Made it kind of hard to see the carrier's flight deck while on approach. :ninja:

So while the F4U may have been the better dog fighter, the F6 Hellcat had the better kill to loss ratio 19:1 vs. 11:1. The F6 also had stronger landing gear, so it could take a hard landing.

 

[Genx87]

A lot of opportunity. Especially on the east front.

 

[Howard]

Dick Bong looks like Fry from Futurama.

 

[JTsyo]

Are the kills all fighters or do bombers count for it too? Though something like the B-17 was hard to bring down.

 

[Vdubchaos]

You are missing the point. The tiger tank was the best tank of the war, but it was too complex to produce and as such it was a waste of resources...

I like to compare Tiger tanks to German cars. And it's very clear Germans have not learned from the war.

Over engineering = overly complex for no apparent reason, not reliable, expensive to purchase and replace and PITA to work on/fix.