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Wow, the Germans had damn good pilots in WW2

Wasted talent.
Too many good pilots that should have been rotated out to train new pilots.
As noted in the article, Japan made the same mistake.
Lot of those guys ended up a stain on the ground where if they had served on our side they would be passing on lessons

At least that's what I learned from bugs bunny cartoons before they banned them from TV
 
As mentioned the German pilots stayed at the front the whole war.

Where they had the advantage is that thier initial combat was with far inferior planes like those the Poles and the Russians had. They racked up a lot of victories against them. IIRC some had close to a hundred by the time the the Germans finished off the Low countries, France, Russia, Poland and the Balkans.

A pilot who survives one or two combat situations has a huge advantage over a rookie. So the German pilots racked up even more kills as thier enemies pilots were rushed thru training and into combat.

Lastly German aces were given their choice of plane and the very best planes available the day of combat.
 
The Germans never really suffered from the equipment deficiencies that the Japanese did, did they? As in, the latter started out with competitive planes, but got eclipsed by the American planes is just about every category. Except low speed turning, perhaps? But power, durability, armament...all kinda lacking.

Germany basically kept up with the Bf-109 through the whole damn war, didn't they? What would those guys have been able to do with a P-51, I wonder?
 
The 51 was not a significantly better fighter, what set it apart was the ability to lean it out and cruise deep into Germany and support the bombers all the way to and from missions. It had tremendous range.
 
skyking said:
The 51 was not a significantly better fighter, what set it apart was the ability to lean it out and cruise deep into Germany and support the bombers all the way to and from missions. It had tremendous range.
Click to expand...

And by then the Germans had lost most of their best pilots. The later ME-109 models were probably superior dogfighters compared to the P-51. We just sent them in numbers the Germans couldn't match flown by pilots that the Germans couldn't match by that point in the war. The Battle of Britain did a number on the Luftwaffe, they lost a lot of equipment and a huge number of their A-list fighter pilots.
 
So what was the allied fighter of choice? I know the P-51's not the magic plane the movies make it out to be, I just thought it was generally considered the most balanced (albeit still big and heavy).

The F4U was shorter range but IIRC reportedly shit for carrier-based ops. I'm guessing that was the US's best dogfighter, though?

Perhaps the Hellcat would be the better comparison to the German 109.

And I have no idea where the P-38 fits in.

Point being: we made a shitload of planes. The Germans more or less had...two? The 109 and 190? Not counting the Me-262 or the strange rocket stuff they tried.
 
It wasn't so much that their pilots were good, but that ours were bad in comparison. Just look at the Redtails.

Despite the liberal propaganda perpetrated by George Lucas, they never produced a single ace pilot ever.
 
Germans also had the 'advantage' of fighting over their territory a lot. When kills have to be verified, it's a lot easier if the wreckage is on land you control.

Nevertheless they did rack up some incredible scores on the eastern front.

Which makes Hans-Joachim Marseille all the more impressive for 151 kills against British forces.

But they all pale compared to Hans-Ulrich Rudel
 
phucheneh said:
So what was the allied fighter of choice? I know the P-51's not the magic plane the movies make it out to be, I just thought it was generally considered the most balanced (albeit still big and heavy).

The F4U was shorter range but IIRC reportedly shit for carrier-based ops. I'm guessing that was the US's best dogfighter, though?

Perhaps the Hellcat would be the better comparison to the German 109.

And I have no idea where the P-38 fits in.

Point being: we made a shitload of planes. The Germans more or less had...two? The 109 and 190? Not counting the Me-262 or the strange rocket stuff they tried.
Click to expand...

I think Dick Bong flew a P38
 
phucheneh said:
So what was the allied fighter of choice? I know the P-51's not the magic plane the movies make it out to be, I just thought it was generally considered the most balanced (albeit still big and heavy).

The F4U was shorter range but IIRC reportedly shit for carrier-based ops. I'm guessing that was the US's best dogfighter, though?

Perhaps the Hellcat would be the better comparison to the German 109.

And I have no idea where the P-38 fits in.

Point being: we made a shitload of planes. The Germans more or less had...two? The 109 and 190? Not counting the Me-262 or the strange rocket stuff they tried.
Click to expand...

In the European theater the Germans most respected the Spitfire as a dogfighter. In the Pacific the Hellcat did the most damage, but the Japanese pilots thought the P-38 was the most dangerous. They just didn't fight the P-38s with the same frequency that they met the Hellcat, Wildcat and Corsair.
 
The statistics that come out of World War II are still mind boggling. That time period, the individual accomplishments (both good and evil), combined paint a picture of what is capable when humanity is operating at its full potential. Sadly that effort was spent on war, but still I am continually stunned by WWII.

Back on topic,
The German aces were very impressive. They were also very impressive in WWI, which is where the idea of aces really came about. WWI set the stage for the WWII aces to continue that quest, some what foolishly as we all know.
 
The Luftwaffe Did produce good pilots but also suffered one of the most complete collapses in military history. That in itself points to there being serious deficiencies and/or overly favorable conditions.

Given an even battlefield I think that their numbers would have been MUCH lower. 44-45 shows that
 
phucheneh said:
So what was the allied fighter of choice? I know the P-51's not the magic plane the movies make it out to be, I just thought it was generally considered the most balanced (albeit still big and heavy).

The F4U was shorter range but IIRC reportedly shit for carrier-based ops. I'm guessing that was the US's best dogfighter, though?

Perhaps the Hellcat would be the better comparison to the German 109.

And I have no idea where the P-38 fits in.

Point being: we made a shitload of planes. The Germans more or less had...two? The 109 and 190? Not counting the Me-262 or the strange rocket stuff they tried.
Click to expand...

The Spitfire was probably the best all around dog fighter. The real beauty of the Mustang was its long range, making it very useful as a bomber escort.

The Luftwaffe had some impressive fighters in the BF-109 and Focke-Wolf FW-190. Both of which were a match for what the allies had at the time. Spitfires were relatively new in 1940 and the RAF was relying heavily on the older Hawker Hurricanes. The Germans underestimated the determination of the British though, and their radar. The other problem was lack of long range bombers. Most of the raids focused on the south of England, while most of the industry was in the north. Fighters also lacked the range necessary to escort bombers much further north.

In the Pacific, the Japanese relied heavily on the A6M Zero as their mainstay fighter. A quick and nimble little number. Light weight and long range. Their fatal flaw was a complete lack of armour and self-sealing fuel tanks. They tended to explode when shot at. Once the Americans figured this out, it became a turkey shoot. The Hellcat was built to be faster than the Zero, but also considerably more durable.
 
Allies rotated their pilots out and sent them to train others. Germans kept their guys in. I would also question their records. For some reason every air victory by an allied ace is looked at and questioned and checked. The same standard is not applied to the Germans. They were loosing the war and needed more propaganda therefore I think that they liked to stretch their claims.
 
tboo said:
I think Dick Bong flew a P38
Click to expand...
He did. One of his successful techniques was the head-on attack. The P-38 had a centrally mounted 20MM cannon and 4 50 cals, right in front of the pilot. He had better range on his guns and could engage when the enemy was still thinking about it.
 
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