WoW: Shadow Priest attack sequence

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: rstove02
At lower levels spirit tap proves very useful, but as you level it gives diminishing returns (cause of the 300 spirit soft cap).

There is NO soft cap.

mana regen = (SPI/4) + 13

Nothing changes when you hit 300... try it out. I'm not sure how this mythical cap notion got so widespread, but it's not true.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Concillian

Originally posted by: rstove02
At lower levels spirit tap proves very useful, but as you level it gives diminishing returns (cause of the 300 spirit soft cap).

There is NO soft cap.

mana regen = (SPI/4) + 13

Nothing changes when you hit 300... try it out. I'm not sure how this mythical cap notion got so widespread, but it's not true.

There's no soft cap but there definitely is diminishing returns (due to the fact that spirit doesn't scale with mana well). I'm somewhat poorly equipped at 55 and have 5000 mana and 280ish spirit. At Level 30 I had 200 spirit and maybe 2500 mana. And it would be quite difficult to get my spirit to 400.

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: torpid
There's no soft cap but there definitely is diminishing returns (due to the fact that spirit doesn't scale with mana well). I'm somewhat poorly equipped at 55 and have 5000 mana and 280ish spirit. At Level 30 I had 200 spirit and maybe 2500 mana. And it would be quite difficult to get my spirit to 400.

no doubt, there are definitely diminishing returns. I kinda doubt you had 200 spirit at level 30, but there are diminshing returns.

I think it's more due to the amount of mana expended per kill at higher level compared with lower level rather than max mana. Max mana is highly dependent on gear, and soloing normal mobs, you don't really care so much about your max mana (until you hit an elite or an add or two). It's more about mana spent per kill vs. amount of time needed to regen that mana.

His conclusion was correct (diminishing returns exist), but his given reason (soft cap at 300) was not. I was not intending to dispute the existence of diminishing returns.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Concillian

Originally posted by: torpid
There's no soft cap but there definitely is diminishing returns (due to the fact that spirit doesn't scale with mana well). I'm somewhat poorly equipped at 55 and have 5000 mana and 280ish spirit. At Level 30 I had 200 spirit and maybe 2500 mana. And it would be quite difficult to get my spirit to 400.

no doubt, there are definitely diminishing returns. I kinda doubt you had 200 spirit at level 30, but there are diminshing returns.

I think it's more due to the amount of mana expended per kill at higher level compared with lower level rather than max mana. Max mana is highly dependent on gear, and soloing normal mobs, you don't really care so much about your max mana (until you hit an elite or an add or two). It's more about mana spent per kill vs. amount of time needed to regen that mana.

His conclusion was correct (diminishing returns exist), but his given reason (soft cap at 300) was not. I was not intending to dispute the existence of diminishing returns.

I definitely had 200 at level 30. I was mostly soloing at this point and was maxing it out between gear and enchantments. Only recently switched to int heavy gear, and even with a high concentration on spirit I was not able to break 300 easily at level 50.

My example of mana was given to contrast spirit's scaling. It is very easy to get twice the mana, health, etc. at 60 that you had at 30, but very difficult to get twice the spirit you had at 30.

 

[rstove02]

I admit I have read about the soft cap on the main WoW forums and treated it at face value. However that being said, even after the mana regen changes in the recent patches, spirit is still the lowest of the 3 primary stats for priests (and argueably for all cloth casters as well).

INT > STA > SPI

I think the main reason for diminishing returns on spirit is because the ratio of your mana pool size to spirit amount increases as you gain levels.

Pulling what I can from the strat book at work..the starting spirit ranges from 21-24 depending on race picked. Can not remember what a lvl1 priest starting mana is but assuming that it is big enough for 7 casts of lvl1 smite @25mana each would be 175mana. At level 57 IIRC I have ~280 spirit with 5500 mana.

Level 1: 24 spirit : 175 mana -> 7.29mana/spirit
Level 57: 280 spirit : 5500 mana -> 19.64mana/spirit

So as you progress in levels even if you focus on spirit as your primary stat...there is little chance of keeping the same ratio you had at level 1.

But on the other hand, at level 55+, chances are your gonna either have mage buddies to make you water when your solo grinding....or having at least 1 mage in a group or raid that makes water for the run.

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: rstove02
I admit I have read about the soft cap on the main WoW forums and treated it at face value. However that being said, even after the mana regen changes in the recent patches, spirit is still the lowest of the 3 primary stats for priests (and argueably for all cloth casters as well).

INT > STA > SPI

I think this is arguable, depending on the situation. In a group situation INT is the most important unless you're talking PvE raid situations where you're in battle for 10+ minutes, where SPI and xmana per 5 seocnds stats become quite important.

Soloing STA is rather unimportant, because INT and healing is more efficient than having STA. You need a certain amount, but not much at all for soloing.

People talk a lot about INT/STA, but I think that comes from the heavy PvP focus on the WoW general boards. INT/STA is PvP, INT/SPI for most 5 manning instances (primarily talking earlier than 55+), PvE raiding really requires all three... you need a decent mana pool, you need spirit for fast regen and you need STA for surviving random targeting events (the bomb, etc...). Soloing is more INT/SPI in my opinion, but I tend to fight more in torpid's "attrition" style as a holy priest, and have significantly more time for regen during battle.

The game has several distinct styles of play. I don't think you can say that there is one stat arrangement that is best for all of them.

 

[Dacalo]

I am a lvl 45 priest.

1. Mindblast (to have it available ASAP after cooldown)
2. SW
3. Mind Flay
4. Mind Flay
5. Mindblast
6. Finish off with wand or staff

I may shield depending on the type and number of mob. I may also cast silence and mana burn.