WoW question

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: rhk0327
Their is a fairly large problem with a shadowpriest and warlock combo. You're grinding will be inefficient because of both's dependence on dot spells. Most creeps will die faster than the full duration of your dot spells. This will make damage/mana efficiency low.

Nah, I don't think they will. As long as you don't go heavy on the damage, you're fine. Also, you could change the method of fighting from DoT to DD without a problem.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: Smilin
Couple more for your list.

Preventing Stealth:
Pally: spam some cheap assed aoe. Oh noes I burned my toes! Everyone can see me!
Mage: spam some cheap assed aoe.

Enhanced Stealth Removal:
All Classes: Wait a couple secs then use any of the normal stealth removal tactics.

Well, the reason why I left out those sort of AoEs are that they don't necessarily stop you. Like a warlock can cast a dot and you can go anywhere and it will still remove you out of stealth. I also didn't include mage's ignite because it isn't controlled.

Speaking of mages... it was funny watching my brother duel a mage from his guild. He's a warrior and the mage had molten armor up. Molten Armor kept crit'ing and it'd proc Ignite on my brother. Well, the mage tried to polymorph him and it kept pulling him right out :laugh:. Then he sat there charging up a pyroblast and my brother just hits spell reflect right as it's about to hit him :laugh:. The mage practically killed himself the entire fight!

I also forgot to mention that Flare keeps the rogue from stealthing as well (not just bringing them out of stealth).

Not sure why the mage bothered with the polymorph - you can rank 1 frostbolt kite a warrior all day long

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: rhk0327
Their is a fairly large problem with a shadowpriest and warlock combo. You're grinding will be inefficient because of both's dependence on dot spells. Most creeps will die faster than the full duration of your dot spells. This will make damage/mana efficiency low.

Nah, I don't think they will. As long as you don't go heavy on the damage, you're fine. Also, you could change the method of fighting from DoT to DD without a problem.

Or just fight more mobs at once.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: jman19
Not sure why the mage bothered with the polymorph - you can rank 1 frostbolt kite a warrior all day long

It was supposedly the real player's brother playing. But, they could just spell reflect it and intercept you . Hopefully you have Ice Armor on and that'll become a moot point as they hit you once and they get chilled .

EDIT:

Originally posted by: ggnl
Or just fight more mobs at once.

Not sure that based on what he said that it'd work. I believe he's under the impression that with the amount of DoTs that you could place on a mob, the DoTs would never get far enough in their duration to be mana effective.

 

[JohnAn2112]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Hmm I was reading the Druid forums last night and wow... I have never seen so much complaining in my entire life.

I can understand their complaints about Lacerate and those were addressed in the recent hot fix that allowed it to work on bleed immune targets.

What I don't understand is how Druids think they have some god given right to have the best of every world. They complain about losing damage in bear form... well, I guess if that's such a problem, we should allow warriors to have more talent points, so they can keep up with the damage and tanking viability of the Dire Bear form. A druid in dire bear form could kill things... you ever see a prot warrior with a sword-n-board try to kill something? Unless he can spell reflect and have the mob practically kill itself, it's quite the boring fight .

Then I saw someone complaining about the nerf to Predatory Instincts (from 15% to 10% bonus to melee crits) severely affected their cat DPS. Well, I think they missed the memo that even on a 1000 point attack, they only lose 50 damage (1000 + 1000 * 1.1 vs 1000 + 1000 * 1.15). That's less than a 2.5% drop in damage. Rogues and Warriors saw more of a nerf from Attack Power bonus normalization than that.

It's one of the reasons I can't stand people that play hybrid classes... they have this insatiable desire that makes them think they should be better than the class that was designed for that role and that role only.

Then, there were Druids that complained that Cat form doesn't have the survivability in PVP. Well, oh mah god, does one understand what it's like to be a rogue now? We're only lucky enough that we get Blind, Vanish, Poisons and Parry and we can't heal ourselves. The day they give druids something akin to Vanish is the day it becomes worthless to be a rogue. Poisons don't even work on every mob to make it nearly as useful and Blind is a poison so it is affected by the type of mob. Although, I don't understand why druids can't parry in Dire Bear... I had a f'n Spider parry one of my attacks the other day... yes, a spider .

The WoW forums are filled with such whining that it's not even worth the bandwidth to read anymore. The druids on those forums think that they should be able to tank way better than warriors. Check out this screenshot.

http://www.f8t.org/jp/wearenotop.jpg

You can't tell me that they weren't broken before the patch.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: JohnAn2112
The WoW forums are filled with such whining that it's not even worth the bandwidth to read anymore. The druids on those forums think that they should be able to tank way better than warriors. Check out this screenshot.

http://www.f8t.org/jp/wearenotop.jpg

You can't tell me that they weren't broken before the patch.

... I wish my rogue could even come close to that :Q!

People just have an issue with hybrids... it's more like there should be an understanding test before you're even allowed to roll one. The main point needed to get across is this... "YOU ARE NOT A REPLACEMENT, YOU ARE A SUPPLEMENT." Like my Shaman... he's not as hybrid-y as a Druid, yet I've been the sole healer in instances (as a full enhancement Shaman, mind you) and had no problem... I did DPS in an instance before too (after them practically yelling at me to DPS instead of heal.. although I didn't think the priest in Shadowform would do quite a good job healing :roll:. Amusingly enough, he didn't listen to my advice either on how SF healing really only works well on single mobs and I did end up healing at times).

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: jman19
Not sure why the mage bothered with the polymorph - you can rank 1 frostbolt kite a warrior all day long

It was supposedly the real player's brother playing. But, they could just spell reflect it and intercept you . Hopefully you have Ice Armor on and that'll become a moot point as they hit you once and they get chilled .

EDIT:

Originally posted by: ggnl
Or just fight more mobs at once.

Not sure that based on what he said that it'd work. I believe he's under the impression that with the amount of DoTs that you could place on a mob, the DoTs would never get far enough in their duration to be mana effective.

Intercept -> blink/fn -> gain distance and fb again

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: jman19
Intercept -> blink/fn -> gain distance and fb again

Spell Reflect only has a 10 second cooldown .

Also, it's been said that Blizzard will be adding a sort of snare removing feature to warriors. Probably adding a removal effect to Intercept. Personally, I think this adds quite an advantage to Gnome warriors with Escape Artist, but EA may need a slight update to make you immune for a couple seconds afterward (like 2-3 seconds).

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: jman19
Intercept -> blink/fn -> gain distance and fb again

Spell Reflect only has a 10 second cooldown .

Also, it's been said that Blizzard will be adding a sort of snare removing feature to warriors. Probably adding a removal effect to Intercept. Personally, I think this adds quite an advantage to Gnome warriors with Escape Artist, but EA may need a slight update to make you immune for a couple seconds afterward (like 2-3 seconds).

That's fine, I'll cast it again any time during that cool down. And after he wastes the spell reflect on that I'll drop a big nuke on his ass

A warrior that is coming at me with a shield = dead pretty fast. How many chances do you think he'll have to use spell reflect?

I've heard about the snare effect being added to intercept, but that is what FN is for. It's nice for warriors, but doesnt' really give them what they need to win vs. kiting classes.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: jman19
That's fine, I'll cast it again any time during that cool down. And after he wastes the spell reflect on that I'll drop a big nuke on his ass

A warrior that is coming at me with a shield = dead pretty fast. How many chances do you think he'll have to use spell reflect?

I've heard about the snare effect being added to intercept, but that is what FN is for. It's nice for warriors, but doesnt' really give them what they need to win vs. kiting classes.

That's why a good warrior is also an engineer . Spell Reflectors are one of the most funnest things to play with. You sit there and let a person think he's going to hit you with a super duper uber soulfire or pyroblast crit and it's like "oops, did I just hit my Hyper Radiant Flame Reflector?"

Or you can reflect Warlock dots back onto them :laugh: (with the shadow reflector of course).

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: jman19
That's fine, I'll cast it again any time during that cool down. And after he wastes the spell reflect on that I'll drop a big nuke on his ass

A warrior that is coming at me with a shield = dead pretty fast. How many chances do you think he'll have to use spell reflect?

I've heard about the snare effect being added to intercept, but that is what FN is for. It's nice for warriors, but doesnt' really give them what they need to win vs. kiting classes.

That's why a good warrior is also an engineer . Spell Reflectors are one of the most funnest things to play with. You sit there and let a person think he's going to hit you with a super duper uber soulfire or pyroblast crit and it's like "oops, did I just hit my Hyper Radiant Flame Reflector?"

Or you can reflect Warlock dots back onto them :laugh: (with the shadow reflector of course).

Yea Engineering is always good for PvP... but 1) it is extremely rare you run in to people who actually use these toys in the wild and 2) if I had engineering there would be even more dead warriors Hell they would be stunned or snared the whole fight

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: jman19
Yea Engineering is always good for PvP... but 1) it is extremely rare you run in to people who actually use these toys in the wild and 2) if I had engineering there would be even more dead warriors Hell they would be stunned or snared the whole fight

I always have the worst luck with engineering. My warrior has it and I'd use the Net-O-Matic Projector and watch myself get stuck 80% of the time. This even happened in PVP a lot and I bet the other person just laughed at my misfortune .

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: jman19
Yea Engineering is always good for PvP... but 1) it is extremely rare you run in to people who actually use these toys in the wild and 2) if I had engineering there would be even more dead warriors Hell they would be stunned or snared the whole fight

I always have the worst luck with engineering. My warrior has it and I'd use the Net-O-Matic Projector and watch myself get stuck 80% of the time. This even happened in PVP a lot and I bet the other person just laughed at my misfortune .

Engineering looks like a lot of fun, even if it backfires sometimes

Unfortunately it seems a bit too expensive for me to keep up with

 

[BZeto]

The reflectors hardly work on lvl 70's anyway, so they are basically trash now until a new version is released. As far as spell reflect goes, it really needs to be removed from the global cooldown to have a better use in pve.

Charge, intercept and intervene will now remove snare effects. Just snares (wing clip, crip poison, chilled etc) not roots. Basically to solve the problem of intercepting someone and ending up 15 yards past them that warriors have dealt with since forever.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: JohnAn2112
The WoW forums are filled with such whining that it's not even worth the bandwidth to read anymore. The druids on those forums think that they should be able to tank way better than warriors. Check out this screenshot.

http://www.f8t.org/jp/wearenotop.jpg

You can't tell me that they weren't broken before the patch.

... I wish my rogue could even come close to that :Q!

People just have an issue with hybrids... it's more like there should be an understanding test before you're even allowed to roll one. The main point needed to get across is this... "YOU ARE NOT A REPLACEMENT, YOU ARE A SUPPLEMENT." Like my Shaman... he's not as hybrid-y as a Druid, yet I've been the sole healer in instances (as a full enhancement Shaman, mind you) and had no problem... I did DPS in an instance before too (after them practically yelling at me to DPS instead of heal.. although I didn't think the priest in Shadowform would do quite a good job healing :roll:. Amusingly enough, he didn't listen to my advice either on how SF healing really only works well on single mobs and I did end up healing at times).

you do realize he is fully buffed and is useing 2 +AP trinkets Bladefists and Jorm Gabbor, jorm adds something like 600 AP on its last tick

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
A rogue would run away after the Kidney Shot or you would? First off, the rogue should've been using Crippling Poison. I don't care if you can remove it, because I not only use Wound Poison on Shamans (5 stacks, Cure Poison only removes 1 at a time), but I also have Vile Poisons, so you may not even be able to get rid of my poison each time (gives chance per point to have your poisons be immune to dispel (this even includes the mage's talent Blazing Speed)). Not to mention, I'd just gouge you .

I'd run off of course, the last thing a rogue wants is distance from a caster. The reason for poison cleansing was the assumption of crippling and the chance of blind, which is a poison and can be cured. The ones who added a stacking poison were more annoying, as was the addition of the Vile Poisons talent, but barring really bad luck (ie. 3-4 dispel resists in a row, not including the totem pulse) I could get distance due to the fact my armor & shield meant something and kept me alive. You'd have to be facing me to gouge me. Granted I couldn't sit there and mindlessly blast rogues to death the way I could warriors and... well, really most classes... nor could I easily take out a 2-3 person group with a rogue in it due to the stuns, but most stood no chance 1v1.

I donno... I can't see it being that bad. Can you link me your armory?

No, for reasons unrelated to this discussion or any tinfoil hat concerns about the armory (I like it, unlike many players). Sorry Sitting at about 600 spell damage, 14% spell crit (+10% for lightning via talents), 7500 hp, 7k armor in PvP gear. I don't have much of a resilience rating yet. I swear to god a GM has been following my instance runs ensuring nothing I could possibly need will drop >_< And PvP is so painful and un-fun now that I've barely gotten 15k honor since the expansion, enough in addition to the ~20k I had to buy my weapon. I'm a few k from my bracers.

The thing is, we need more AP to scale with the higher HP of mobs. My rogue had about 900 AP pre-BC and now he has like ... 1225 or something like that. Compared to the heavy drop in crit chance (~28% to ~19.5%!!), this increase is minimal. Although, I think I did also raise my hit chance a bit.

Yeah I've been giving it some thought and I think a mitigation buff is a better idea, after watching rogues and hunters struggle to do half my damage according to meters in PvE, and especially after having to heal rogues against 75% of mobs with nasty AoEs and cleaves x_x The only problem I have with their balance is in PvP.

That's pretty much what I suspected. I don't know, I saw some people talking about enhancement + elemental, but I suspected that it wouldn't be great together... maybe in BC as I see quite a bit of gear with spell damage and strength on it. One thing I found kind of disappointing is that Blizzard was smart enough to make all caster daggers main-hand only . I wanted to dual-wield caster daggers on my Shaman and wtfpwn with dual +spell damage enchants hehe.

Yeah, with armor/shields not mattering at all, I'd love to equip an OH caster dagger As far as spell dmg + str, keep in mind you're still not getting any crit, and that all items of a given item level have the same attribute points; if you're getting str, that's spell damage you're not getting, and vice versa. You're also losing out on what little survivability the resto tree offers for a 16-21 point investment (hey, it beats nothing).

 

[jzodda]

Originally posted by: AverageGamer
Any new PvP servers scheduled to be opened up, or a way to find the most recent?

A bud is making a BE priest. Best class to compliment each other?

Warlock, Rogue, or Druid.

Plenty of WoW experience, just pollin.

LOL For a sec or two I felt that this thread was back on the official forums. I have had 3 level 60 loks. One in beta and I leveled 2 since release before I quit a few months ago for now. I also leveled a druid to 60 as mostly feral build.

I had a few constant level companions as I took my lok to 60 and one was a shadow priest. The priests damage/healing complimented my affliction leveling spec well. We just AoE'd the ****** out of everything. Thow up a shield on me, I would run into the mobs and hellfire. That was fun. The druid is good as well as he could serve as the priest's tank in bear and cat form. I didn't play much in bear form though, mostly in cat but even with the upcoming gimpness a druid is flexible. I leveled with a pally and a rogue and that was not as good as leveling with the priest and druid imo. I also leveled with a mage and that was fun too for AOE and quick kills. I also leveled with a warrior for 20+ levels back when world PvP was going on before BGs and that was cool as he was able to keep ****** (ie: Rogues) off me in high gankfest areas. I guess that does not really count anymore these days.

 

[torpid]

There's an item called jorm gabbar? Is it a spike that you put on your finger?

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: torpid
There's an item called jorm gabbar? Is it a spike that you put on your finger?

yes its a rip from the book DUNE the correct name is Gom Jabber

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23570

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Anubis
you do realize he is fully buffed and is useing 2 +AP trinkets Bladefists and Jorm Gabbor, jorm adds something like 600 AP on its last tick

I presumed his items were AP-based, but even then, you're ignoring the rest of his stats as they're all astronomically higher than what I would achieve fully buffed at this point. I believe I've achieved over 40% crit on occasions as a rogue can throw the fancy sharpening stones on to achieve higher crit.

Originally posted by: CKent
I'd run off of course, the last thing a rogue wants is distance from a caster. The reason for poison cleansing was the assumption of crippling and the chance of blind, which is a poison and can be cured. The ones who added a stacking poison were more annoying, as was the addition of the Vile Poisons talent, but barring really bad luck (ie. 3-4 dispel resists in a row, not including the totem pulse) I could get distance due to the fact my armor & shield meant something and kept me alive. You'd have to be facing me to gouge me. Granted I couldn't sit there and mindlessly blast rogues to death the way I could warriors and... well, really most classes... nor could I easily take out a 2-3 person group with a rogue in it due to the stuns, but most stood no chance 1v1.

The mention of the gouge comment makes me think you haven't really faced many good rogues if any. Managing your energy is a huge part of being a successful rogue, not to mention being an avid fan of thistle teas or other various energy return mechanisms (damn Blizzard for nerfing them as well). Quite typically, given a crit off an initial mutilate, I have 5 points, so I get the most effective Kidney Shot and also guaranteed 25 energy from the Finishing Move. Then, with that, I also have enough energy to gouge before the Kidney Shot is over with. With Improved Gouge, I have even more time to wait for more energy and I waste more time to wait for Kidney Shot to come off cooldown.

One of the reasons why I tend to go lax on multi-person PVP (i.e. me being the single person) if there's a rogue is that exact reason you mentioned. Even though I've beat multiple people before on my rogue, typically fighting another rogue and a healer at the same time is suicide. The rogue will stun you like there is no tomorrow and all the while, any damage you've done to him or her is being negated by heals. Not a pretty sight.

Although, I did win a 3v5 fight (60 Priest, 60 Mage, me vs 70 Priest, 66 Rogue, 60 Warlock, 60 Shaman and someone else). I was kind of lucky because it started with a 1v1 of the mage I was helping being attacked by the rogue, I intervened but the mage died before I could get there, so it turned to a 1v1 with me against the other rogue. Before I could kill him, the priest came so it turned to a 1v2. That was a wild fight, I used soooooo many CC's against that priest to try to stop her from healing the rogue as I doubted my ability to take her out while the rogue was blinded or something. Then when I dropped off the bleachers in the STV arena, a 60 priest came up and started healing me. Eventually I just ignored the rogue and let the rogue hit me while I took out the priest . Then the other 60 Hordes joined in (they were just standing there for God knows how long) but they were purely fodder and really bad PVP'ers in my opinion.

Originally posted by: CKent
Yeah I've been giving it some thought and I think a mitigation buff is a better idea, after watching rogues and hunters struggle to do half my damage according to meters in PvE, and especially after having to heal rogues against 75% of mobs with nasty AoEs and cleaves x_x The only problem I have with their balance is in PvP.

You can't forget that all mitigation has changed so heavily in BC. I saw this the hard way as I was tanking The Sunken Temple yesterday on my Rogue for my Shaman. At this point, my rogue's Dodge was killed by leveling (~30% down to ~20%) and my mitigation was dropped a decent amount (I believe ~25% to ~19%). I think I found out the hard way that mitigation also does not factor in level whatsoever as these elite mobs hit me as hard as they hit my same-level Shaman who was wearing a mix of cloth, leather and mail healing gear with a staff. I'm actually tempted to stop leveling my Shaman so I can level my Warrior+Priest combo up to 70 and I can use my Warrior instead. I watched my brother solo almost all of BRD on his warrior (he had some problems with Thaurissan.. understandable as you need a separate person for Mora), but I highly doubt I could do this, unless you count my ability to skip almost everyone. But even then, I'd have to blow a lot of cooldowns and my (talent-affected) abilities require me to get behind my opponents... not possible for bosses.

Originally posted by: CKent
Yeah, with armor/shields not mattering at all, I'd love to equip an OH caster dagger As far as spell dmg + str, keep in mind you're still not getting any crit, and that all items of a given item level have the same attribute points; if you're getting str, that's spell damage you're not getting, and vice versa. You're also losing out on what little survivability the resto tree offers for a 16-21 point investment (hey, it beats nothing).

Here's my planned talents for 70:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=GZxVbzA0sVuqoxcfto

Something along those lines. I'm a bit disappointed in a lot of talents as they're practically worthless. For example, Tidal Focus? Pure garbage, Ancestral Knowledge is a better talent. Why do I say that? Well, if healing spells cost 5% less mana, then it's true that if you used your entire mana bar healing, you would no longer do that, you would only use 95% of your mana bar. So it's equivalent to having 5% more mana. Number wise, you can look at this as having 6000 mana. If you spend 6000 mana worth of heals with this talent, it would be reduced to 5700 mana. You save 300 mana... you could just get ancestral knowledge and gain 300 extra mana that can be used for anything.

 

[torpid]

BTW, anyone noticed that there is a totally insane number of blood elf paladins these days? Is there a similarly ridiculous number of draenari(sp?) shamen?

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: torpid
BTW, anyone noticed that there is a totally insane number of blood elf paladins these days? Is there a similarly ridiculous number of draenari(sp?) shamen?

Not really. I would expect to see more paladins though because horde simply needed them more than alliance needed shamans.

But paladins still make up less than 2% of the lvl 60-70 horde population on my server (while making up 10% of the 10-70 population). Shamans make up slightly less than that on the alliance side. I suspect that a large percentage of low level paladins we're seeing now won't make it to level 70 any time soon, if at all.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: ggnl
But paladins still make up less than 2% of the lvl 60-70 horde population on my server (while making up 10% of the 10-70 population). Shamans make up slightly less than that on the alliance side. I suspect that a large percentage of low level paladins we're seeing now won't make it to level 70 any time soon, if at all.

I think they saw how un-fun a Paladin can be to level :laugh:. The Alliance has put forth their greatest misery on the Horde yet... leveling a Paladin!

I don't really see too many Draenei Shaman to be honest. I mean, it is true that every Alliance Shaman I see is Draenei, but that's for obvious reasons. I've seen Draenei Paladins, Draenei Hunters, Draenei Mages, Draenei Warriors, Draenei Priests, etc .

 

[torpid]

Yeah I wasn't accounting for level. They all seem to be about 10-30.

Personally, I find shaman to be significantly more enjoyable than paladin. What is their role in end game instances though?

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: torpid
Yeah I wasn't accounting for level. They all seem to be about 10-30.

Personally, I find shaman to be significantly more enjoyable than paladin. What is their role in end game instances though?

In raid instances? Healing, buffs, and mana tide totem. You could conceivably do dps, but you'll never beat similarly equipped members of pure dps classes.