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WOW: PvE or PvP server?
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On a PvE server I've been corpse camped at least 5 times, and that is remarkable considering how rare it was for me to even have a pvp flag. Although to be fair I did have 2 level 60's, a level 45, a level 35, and a level 20 back then.
I understand the point that it may not happen often. But when it does happen i'm not going to take the attitude that it's no big deal. It is a big deal to me, because the reason I play wow is to enjoy myself and unwind, and corpse camping and getting ganked, along with other things I consider harrassment, have the opposite effect. You should not have to say "that's part of being on a PvP server, it's life." I really wish they didn't back out of dishonor punishments. Their implementation sounded really crappy but i still think it is a fundamentally important idea. It shouldn't be that hard to distinguish between ganking someone and killing them in the course of an actual useful battle.
There should be actual rules of engagement and everything, maybe even actual rewards for occupying territory. In FFXI you could undergo these missions to "claim" an area and if you succeeded then your faction got certain bonuses in that zone. Granted, the mission involved touching a flag and then fighting really difficult enemies, but still, it was something. And FFXI is not exactly the champion of PvP.
Right now PvP in Wow, even after all this work of the honor system, is still very weak in terms of appeal to me. Battlegrounds are fun, but they are only marginally different than team deathmatch and capture the flag FPS. An MMORPG's pvp should have a lot more to it than ganking and equipment rewards for killing.
If in Wow you had rules of engagement with actual consequences and real territory, I would probably join PvP in a second. I would love to start world war 12 by ganking a gnome thereby causing gnomes to declare war on orcs and then the undead remain neutral because they have lasting peace with the gnomes and tension with the orcs who keep ganking gnomes.
I understand the point that it may not happen often. But when it does happen i'm not going to take the attitude that it's no big deal. It is a big deal to me, because the reason I play wow is to enjoy myself and unwind, and corpse camping and getting ganked, along with other things I consider harrassment, have the opposite effect. You should not have to say "that's part of being on a PvP server, it's life." I really wish they didn't back out of dishonor punishments. Their implementation sounded really crappy but i still think it is a fundamentally important idea. It shouldn't be that hard to distinguish between ganking someone and killing them in the course of an actual useful battle.
There should be actual rules of engagement and everything, maybe even actual rewards for occupying territory. In FFXI you could undergo these missions to "claim" an area and if you succeeded then your faction got certain bonuses in that zone. Granted, the mission involved touching a flag and then fighting really difficult enemies, but still, it was something. And FFXI is not exactly the champion of PvP.
Right now PvP in Wow, even after all this work of the honor system, is still very weak in terms of appeal to me. Battlegrounds are fun, but they are only marginally different than team deathmatch and capture the flag FPS. An MMORPG's pvp should have a lot more to it than ganking and equipment rewards for killing.
If in Wow you had rules of engagement with actual consequences and real territory, I would probably join PvP in a second. I would love to start world war 12 by ganking a gnome thereby causing gnomes to declare war on orcs and then the undead remain neutral because they have lasting peace with the gnomes and tension with the orcs who keep ganking gnomes.
rh71
No Lifer
^ ok it sounds like you don't like the idea of getting ganked while questing/grinding period... not much to do with working 8 hours and then needing to relax because you'd bitch about it even if you didn't have a job. Fine - don't get a sandwich. Log in your higher levels and it's time for some payback, pvp-server style.
Umm... only if it's actual camping your corpse does that not apply. Otherwise, yes, that's what you got yourself into and you SHOULD have to watch your back at all times. People will be mean to you. And that's why PVE servers exist. The point is - you had an option at signup and that's why "it's life".
How you manage to get flagged so often on a PVE server is beyond me... I've played on those too. I got flagged once cause I went into Undercity just to "take a look". Oops.
It does make a difference whether I have a job or not, because if I could sit around and play WoW all day then I wouldn't care as much about getting ganked or griefed because it wouldn't cost me such a high percentage of my playing time for something that is nothing more than harrassment.
And the latter point may have just whiffed right over your head or something. I like certain aspects of PvP and if Wow implemented PvP in any meaningful manner then I would play on a PvP server. The battlegrounds are the only remotely enjoyable PvP experience right now. Even laying siege to a town gets tiresome after about 10 minutes because the guards respawn in increasing numbers and there isn't much of a reward beyond the vague promise of honor point equipment.
You can say "that's life" which is equivalent to "my way or the highway" but that does not offer a counter argument whatsoever. Just because that's the way it is doesn't mean that's the way it should be. I can all but guarantee you that many, many players would prefer a PvP server with only minor changes to how it deals with harrassment type ganking and corpse camping.
And I get flagged for a few reasons, one of which is mentioned above, the other being I did actively participate in PvP then I want to go about my regular business, which more or less requires for me to wait for the PvP flag to fade since otherwise there is high likelihood that I will get ganked.
Basically what you are arguing is that PvP should stay the way it is and you don't see any room for improvement or reduced frustratino or what? To most people, getting ganked is not worth it just because I can later gank someone else. That's not my idea of PvP nor should it be the idea of anyone who doesn't have testosterone issues.
rh71
No Lifer
^ you're complaining about world pvp... let me ask - what SHOULD happen when 2 people from opposing factions see each other roaming about ? Yes, PVP can be improved upon in many ways but world pvp needs no change (unless you're talking about giving more reasons for people to attack each other - which many people on PVP servers wouldn't mind seeing - Halaa is a good start). Your enemies don't care how much time you're logged in for. I see an enemy fighting for the other side, he's fair game. That's "life" (your original phrase, not mine).
And you're ok with being harrassed when you do have time than when you don't ? It's more ok for people to grief you repeatedly on a weekend than on a work-night ? You'd like to believe it but I bet you turn just as red regardless. It's unjust, we know. PVE server for you. There's no shame in it - really there isn't. Some people just don't like having to watch their backs. Being in such an environment makes it more fun/challenging and is an appeal for others.
And you're ok with being harrassed when you do have time than when you don't ? It's more ok for people to grief you repeatedly on a weekend than on a work-night ? You'd like to believe it but I bet you turn just as red regardless. It's unjust, we know. PVE server for you. There's no shame in it - really there isn't. Some people just don't like having to watch their backs. Being in such an environment makes it more fun/challenging and is an appeal for others.
I'm not sure why the limited time issue is not sticking in your brain, but it's not that hard to follow. If I have 8 hours of flexible free time, then it is not as frustrating to have to log out and come back later than if I have 1 hour of inflexible free time, because it means I can still accomplish what I need to without having to alter my routines. This is not rocket science. If I have 1 hour and am getting griefed, more or less it means I can get nothing done that day even if all I wanted to do was go to some vendor and buy a tailoring recipe. If I have 8 hours and am getting ganked, I can just do whatever else I have planned that day for a while and come back. I can't just decide I'm going to go to work on a weekday at 7pm and then take the next morning off to resume WoW.
I already mentioned numerous ways world pvp could be improved. You may think it makes logical sense the way it is, but it does not. If this were real warfare then it wouldn't remotely resemble what happens now. I can pretty much guarantee you that you would get court martialed if you were in some hot bed of warfare, say Iraq, and you just randomly went into a village without being under orders and killed some iraqis, thereby stirring up unrest and causing unpredictable political and social consequences. So if you ganked someone in PvP while under orders from chief bloodhoof who told you to patrol x y z, that's one thing. If it's just total anarchy and anyone can go anywhere and do anything they want, and you choose to run up and gank someone for no real reason, that's basically harrassment.
rh71
No Lifer
Because you said this: "It is a big deal to me, because the reason I play wow is to enjoy myself and unwind, and corpse camping and getting ganked, along with other things I consider harrassment, have the opposite effect."
YOU DON'T LIKE GETTING GANKED REGARDLESS. That's why. You want set rules of engagement otherwise no fighting for you. Sounds a lot like... PVE BGs... your harrassment-free zone. No sandwiches required... and that's why this whole thing started with you in the first place.
No... I either want rules of engagement, or I want increased rewards in contested zones, or I want there to be some appeal to PvP realms beyond reduced queue times in battlegrounds. I see no benefit to PvP realms right now beyond queue times. The only other major difference is ganking and griefing. There are PvE realms with frequent PvP "battles".
There is no inconsistency to my opinion on ganking. I don't like getting ganked, but it is more annoying to get ganked when I have less time to deal with it. I would prefer to never get ganked because it is nothing more than harrassment, but if there were some other thing to offset it, I would overall find the PvP realm experience more enjoyable.
If you read all my suggestions for PvP and came up with thinking it's nothing more than battleground PvE, you really are a lost cause. Is it possible that you ENJOY ganking people and find that the overall experience of ganking and griefing to be the best thing about PvP? If not then I don't see why you are debating this point.
If you read all my suggestions of how to make PvP less about ganking and intentional harrassment and more about actual long term goals and warfare and don't think those sound significantly more fun, then there really is something wrong with you. I can guarantee that 99.9% of people interested in wow would much rather have a PvP system like any of the possibilities I described than the current system which is nearly identical to an FPS free for all deathmatch.
oogabooga
Diamond Member
Id go PVE if everyone I know wasn't doing PVP.
PVP is a PVE server with setbacks (ie ganking) almost anywhere after 20 with most pvp isolated in instances and battlegrounds.
Leveling on a pvp server on release with everyone scrambling to keep ahead of the powercurve... FUN!. now and days? what's the point, those encounter sets are pretty much gone, and the main thing about pvp servers is ganking.
PVP is a PVE server with setbacks (ie ganking) almost anywhere after 20 with most pvp isolated in instances and battlegrounds.
Leveling on a pvp server on release with everyone scrambling to keep ahead of the powercurve... FUN!. now and days? what's the point, those encounter sets are pretty much gone, and the main thing about pvp servers is ganking.
ArmchairAthlete
Diamond Member
Don't be a carebear. The danger of a pvp server is fun. Sure, getting ganked can be annoying, but it doesn't happen all that often and you can get revenge (get a friend to do it if you're not high enough level, or another character you have). Or just decide to kill 6 of the other faction for however many times they kill you.
EDIT: You can fight back against gankers of similar level and often win =).
EDIT: You can fight back against gankers of similar level and often win =).
Anubis
No Lifer
see this is a lie or you play on a TINY PVP server, my brother plays on Warsong which is the largest US wow PVP server he gets ganked literally every 10 min when out farming, and often is then camped for 30 min or so
when i used to play on a PVP server it was more then annoying when trying to farm for herbs or mats for raids took forever, i pvped enough and ground out grand marshal, world PVP is basicially all dead, now on a PVE server i can farm at my pace and actually get the crap i need for raids, i xfered to a PVE server to raid, i was recruited to kill stuff in naxx, went and it was great and havent looked back on the decision
if you want to enjoy questing and lvling a character do it on a PVE server or a small PVP server
rh71
No Lifer
Hold up. This whole thing was about you stating you didn't have time to deal with pricks harrassing people and that people wouldn't want to grab a sandwich because that would be their whole play-session. How many times does it need to be said - PVE FTW. But no - you must press on that a PVP server is still for your brave don't-touch-me-unless-I-wanna-be-touched ass. Seriously, you're crying about getting ganked when you've miraculously been camped 5 times, on a PVE server. STAY THERE AND YOU'LL BE FINE, MR. I HAVE A LIFE.
As I stated before, being in a world where you can get capped at any time is part of the challenge and it's appealing to a lot of people. To someone who's never world-PVP'd to even a small extent, they think it's always level 70s vs. 30s and nothing but griefing. No. Fighting for the same plot of land for the same quest item... or even the fear of someone coming for it at all is part of the fun. I can't stress that enough... because everytime I quested, I watched my back - it was hardly ever dull. And again, "never" did I get camped, on a PVP server. You've even admitted it's few and far between.
You can put your grand 2-paragraph ideas up on the WoW board where more people care. You won't get so much as a /golfclap from me here about it... I haven't had a problem with its current implementation even if it can be improved. I like having to watch my back and making others do the same.
Aikouka
Lifer
This is not always true. I used to play on Lightning's Blade (East Coast PVP) and our queue times were about... 20 minutes for L60 WSG, 30 minutes for L60 AB and 50 minutes for L60 AV (these were pre-expansion since I did little to no PVP post-expansion). I remember one time when cross-faction BGs were broken... I had insta-queues, which shows that it's Lightning's Blade's battlegroup (Vindication) that was killing our Alliance queue times.
The server I play on now, Alleria, has much faster queue times. In fact, my longest L60 AV wait was about 4 minutes. When I spoke to someone before I transfered, he mentioned queue times being about 5 minutes for AB and WSG and 20 at the most for AV.
It's also good to note that this cannot be true as battlegroups aren't solely PVP or PVE, they're a mix.
From my experiences, Blizzard's adding end-game instances to leveling zones or zones without flight paths creates a problem for low-level players. For example, the chicken quest in Tanaris goes right by the Caverns of Time. I got ganked about 6 times trying to do this quest by level 70's going to CoT. I got ganked in Swamp of Sorrows by level 70's going to Karazhan. This has existed before, but the point is that it got a bit worse post-expansion because there are more reasons for high levels to be in leveling zones than before.
I'm not your average bear when it comes to playing games with other people. My real life opinions soak deep into the game and this creates a problem with interactions with people who think WoW is only a game. For me, it's a bit more than "just a game" because you're dealing with other people. Orctar the level 70 warrior, as much of an ass as he is to my poor level 30, he's also just another person.
So going on this concept of players are people, I couldn't stand the fact that someone would kill me for no reason and then have a problem with it when I kill them (for killing me). Also, the two-face players made me angry to no extent. You wouldn't believe how many players would /bow to one of my 60's or 70's and I'd get back on my same or lower level character and they'd attack me while I was on a mob! You think they'd understand the fact that my name was "Darron" and "Darrien" that there may've been a correlation.
So, in other words, the way people acted on the server frustrated me to no end. If I killed someone, I would've had no qualms with being killed... if I stole someone's mob, I would've had no qualms with being killed. I would've deserved it.
It's also good to note that all I do is level characters and since I'd rather not spend most of my free time frustrated, I decided to leave. Also, since all of my characters are level 20 or above (getting to 20 takes about 1 day played), that's worth a lot more than $25 as I make more than that in an hour anyway :laugh:.
Yes, I have rogue on a PVP server. The reason I joined a PVP server is because I liked the concept of defending towns and In my WoW infancy, I thought that wasn't possible on PVE servers. Little did I know that I was very wrong. Also, I may have had a rogue on a PVP server, but I only ganked someone once and I vehemently apologized for my act of cruelty (I have two accounts).
My rogue was also my first character and was named after a character that I had long since used in roleplaying type activities ( not D&D... I'm not that nerdy 😛 ). The rogue or warrior were the two closest classes to how he fought and since Darro was a stealthier type of fighter, I chose the rogue. I also like ninjas, so that had a hand in it :laugh:.
I always hated it when I did that and could never find them 🙁. Now I'm glad when I switched servers, I also moved healers to another account, which gave me a lot more freedom (healers includes anything with a healing spell excluding Hunter and Warlock).
Why should they have to fight each other? That's a concept I've never understood. I mean, if you're questing... I'm questing... why fight me and have me retaliate and make us both take longer. It's simply illogical.
I even brought this up a different way on the LB message board as I saw numerous posts with people laughing at "RP'ers" because they "roleplay." Yet, isn't someone killing anyone who's a member of the opposing faction roleplaying? They're acting out the role that Blizzard put them in... in a war with the evil enemy and they're a soldier. Personally, I acted on my own accord in a logical and smart manner. I also didn't kill people, because I'd rather not make enemies... I may not be questing then when seeing someone, but that same person may see me when I'm questing later!
People like Torpid are the problem with PvP. They want PvP, but they only want meaningful battles. They don't feel the need to seek protection and think they should be able to quest solo without interruption, without camping. And when they die, they expect to be able to run back to their corpse and click ressurect without any thought of who might still be near by or whether they should call for backup BEFORE ressing. This is a risk free mentality brought about by the fact that you don't lose anything in PvP. See, because if you lost armor in PvP you'd make damn sure not to be caught defenseless while you are making a sandwhich in real life and there would be no run back to your corpse for you, because the likelyhood anything remained is nill.
It is a convenience that people can run back to their corpse without losing anything but time, corpse camping is trivial and easy to avoid, graveyards are relatively close to any death. And the "part-time PvPers" only like it when they are winning or have the advantage.
When a level 60 is camping their quest mob, they don't see it as a challenge and decide to switch quests. They run right past the 60 and hope they don't die. And if they do die, it's the bullsh!t griefers, exploiters and low lifes pissing on their enjoyment. They are absolutely blind to the risk factor. It would be like playing an RTS and expecting to be able to run right past your enemies base without getting attacked. PvP has not clicked in their minds as an actual danger but more of a feature to be added onto the base game.
It is a convenience that people can run back to their corpse without losing anything but time, corpse camping is trivial and easy to avoid, graveyards are relatively close to any death. And the "part-time PvPers" only like it when they are winning or have the advantage.
When a level 60 is camping their quest mob, they don't see it as a challenge and decide to switch quests. They run right past the 60 and hope they don't die. And if they do die, it's the bullsh!t griefers, exploiters and low lifes pissing on their enjoyment. They are absolutely blind to the risk factor. It would be like playing an RTS and expecting to be able to run right past your enemies base without getting attacked. PvP has not clicked in their minds as an actual danger but more of a feature to be added onto the base game.
Aikouka
Lifer
Die (and not as a Night Elf) in Thistleshrub Valley in Tanaris and tell me that it's not a long walk. The people who killed my mage there were ganked relentlessly by my priest again and again for daring to make me walk 10 minutes to get back to my body (the GY is up by Gadgetzan by the way 😉).
Haha, sometimes I've felt the same way... you just know how irritating the players are. But I've had the benefit of finding out who the irritating Horde players were and literally having Horde players tell us to kill them on sight.
WTF are you babbling on about? The entire point of the sandwich argument was that PvP in its current form is rubbish because the only differences are reduced queue times and ganking, and going to get a sandwich is not an appealing counter to ganking. You like it, other people don't, deal with it. I managed to offer about a dozen ways that PvP servers would appeal to me and you not only ignored every single one, you then ignored the fact that I even posted them and asked what could be improved. You are the only one with a problem here. I already stated that I don't like PvP for the exact reason you do like PvP. The only reason I even responded to your post at all was because you didn't seem to think having to stop playing the game because you got corpse camped is a bad thing. I'm glad you finally admitted that ganking is the appeal of PvP, though.
As for camping, go back and read what I wrote. I don't know how the heck you got from what I wrote to admitting it is few and far between. I said it happened a lot given the circumstances. I said "I understand your point that it might not happen often" which meant that my experience might not be typical of PvP - I wouldn't know since I only played to level 10 on a PvP server before my friend who convinced me to join there switched. I never said that it was few and far between.
I find it interesting you claim to never have been camped even though above you claim to have had to go eat a sandwich once. What was the reason then? Were you experiencing low blood sugar level?
I like the "can't stress that enough" and "as I stated before" part considering you haven't stated it at all in this thread. Classic. I do wonder though exactly what you think "watching your back" entails, because with rare exception, if a level 70 with an elite mount sees you and wants to fight you, you are dead. Watching your back is what exactly? Is that when you went to get your sandwich on a saturday afternoon when it was lunch time anyway? Kudos if you have the patience to deal with harrassment like that. I don't. I don't want to be missing out on content I am paying for because someone else got to level 70 while I was at work all day.
But really I'm not a problem for PvP because I don't play on a PvP server for the reasons I stated. How does not playing PvP make me a problem for PvP??
Couple questions, though. What else can you do except switch quests or wait for someone to come help you? I don't think there's any third option that involves completing the quest while the level 70 is camping your corpse. Do you know of one?
Incidentally, I can get the thrill of a level 60+ trying to kill me while I do something without another human having to be on that end. I often do, in fact. It's just not another human, it's something blizzard put there after carefully considering the impact. See rh's post about stranglethorn vale. I find it crazy that people are missing out on all the fun content in that zone because it's too dangerous.
Tremulant
Diamond Member
When I was leveling my rogue on deathwing (pvp) I had a quest in Thistleshrub Valley. I saw an alliance mage there, and figured she had a quest as well, so I ignored her and started killing stuff. Right before I finish killing the first monster I pulled, she shoots a fireball at me. I don't remember how the rest of the fight went, but she ended up dead. 10 minutes later, she returns and is hiding behind one of the hills drinking. A few seconds later she's dead again (gg ambush+backstab). I ended up killing her a few more times, finishing my quest while she was running back.
That was the only time I remember killing someone multiple times, but she deserved it. When I play on pvp servers, I won't attack others unless they attack me first. Usually I'm playing in a limited time frame, and I'd rather not waste time dealing with others.
Oh, and I have a <30 second queue time on my horde chars on PvP servers and <1 min on PvE servers (but my pve chars are all under 30 anyways).:heart:
Is there an instance down by thistleshrub now? I remember having to do an uldaman related quest down there, but it seemed like incomplete content. How much would it suck to have to run back down there during a party wipe?
Those are impressive queue times. Do you know what alliance queue times are like on the same servers?
rh71
No Lifer
I said that if you are a 30-minute a day player, you have a right to bitch... BUT if you are on a PVP server, you will see this. It sucks, we know it sucks. Choose PVE, don't go PVP. Christ, for the 4th fricken time.
Sorry, I'm the one with a problem with ... what ? Hahahaha. You keep coming back to your ideas... I keep saying you don't need them because your problems can be avoided in the first place. You seem to be interested in PVP a lot for someone who's afraid to stand up for himself and hates to die. Play on a PVP server first before you conclude that it's an automatic death on every world encounter.
Ganking is a danger and playing while having to watch your back is the actual appeal. Stated x2, at least. Not once did I say I enjoyed ganking others nor have I griefed other players at any length in any way. Getting killed once because you were fighting in the same area is NOT griefing. If you're so sensitive as to think otherwise - once again, your answer is PVE. Nobody is saying you must PVP.
Just.. WoW.
Notice I said "never" in quotes. It was done on purpose. 1 time out of way over 1 year is basically a hardly ever... or just... the fact that I can remember the circumstances and details (I won't bore you with something you don't really care about) tells you it was a 1-time memorable experience. But as people have said, others have different experiences. I've had it happen 1 time on a PVP server. Maybe I'm not as dumb as others who find trouble more often (Desolace is a great alternative to STV, btw... PVP dynamics FTW). I just don't know.. just like I don't know how someone can get themself camped 5 times on a PVE server. I've been flagged on a PVE server doing the Hellfire towers. 5 minutes to get unflagged is a joke. I've managed to avoid saying L2P for many posts now.
3/27/07 @ 3:15pm ET post. Check it out. You must've missed it since you consumed yourself in another one of your "improving PVP" tirades in the following post (since you've obviously had so much experience in brave battles). In all fairness, it was an edit but still before your next post time (which undoubtedly took you a good 15-mins to write). Next time use CTRL-F before trying to put someone down.
See, especially in TBC, Bliz made us quest in the same areas. I still don't understand why you think it's always level 70s vs. much lower levels. Either you quest with an enemy by keeping a respectable distance from each other (with the understanding that you'll leave each other alone) or you take him out, sometimes multiple times so that he doesn't return. It has happened both ways on a PVP server (since you don't have experience). And if you only have 30-minutes to play and don't want to have to deal with this ? Guess what ? PVE.
Hard at work ... yes we know... you don't have time for crap, especially arguments on a forum all day either. You want to go home and relax by getting a quest done per night in those 30 minutes. How long do you even play a night ? 30 minutes was someone else's number. P V E.
If you haven't guessed by now, I just have 1 answer for your stated problems. The best part is that it already exists. This serves as nothing but entertainment for me so knock yourself out if you want to continue to waste your precious time.
My bad, I didn't read your post carefully from 3:15. I admit it. Sorry. But you'll never convince anyone that "never" means almost never. Good luck trying.
You can get the exact same effect (living on the edge during questing) by flagging yourself in PvE at all times. That's going back to the point I made about PvP vs PvE realms. The only benefit of PvP is the potential reduced battleground wait time, because you can do everything else besides ganking unwilling victims in PvE that you can do in PvP, and it happens often enough such that someone aching for PvP fun can get it. There are still frequent town raids, and if you enjoy the danger of being vulnerable you can have it. What you can't have is the ability to put other players in danger who don't want to be. And you don't have the added negative of being forced to deal with corpse camping and frequent ganking when it's inconvenient and frustrating. Although you could if you really wanted, by turning PvP flag on.
When PvP realms were first out, before the honor system, there was a much bigger disparity and people who enjoyed raids and fighting PvP more or less were forced to join PvP realms. Now with the honor system, PvP battles are quite common and thus there is minimal difference, and most of the difference is negative. After the honor system, there was a 2 month period where all I did was battlegrounds and town raids. The only down side was that SOME (not all) battlegrounds had a really long wait. Well, that, and the fact that I had respec'd my priest to be a healbot for my guild and it was really killing me in BGs. Never once did I think, this would be more fun on a PvP server. Because it probably wouldn't.
You are very wrong about usually only seeing people your level. I am guessing that you think that because you have naturally gravitated towards safer zones for your levelling or something. See above from other posters. Any area where there is a high level instance has high level people travelling who are willing to gank you. I see level 70s on a constant basis now on PvE, and they aren't even out to kill me (although some are out to raid towns).
It used to be the only place I'd frequently see someone of the opposing faction of a much higher level was tirisfal glades (because people were going to SM), and occasionally STV. I probably would have seen a lot if I had quested in desolace, though, since maraudon is there. I rarely quest there because it's so incredibly boring.
Now you have instances in places where people actually quest a lot and the instances are a lot higher level than the rest of the zone. If you are questing in STV you see people heading towards ZG. See above about the chicken quest in Gadget.
Your answer is, don't go to STV. That's a sucky answer. Especially since Desolace has a lot of people going to Maraudon anyway.
And I got camped those several times because I willingly went into pvp or had a group member with a pvp flag. It's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. It would be a lot more annoying on a pvp server since there is no way to make them go away. Thus explaining the original reason I even replied to you in the first place... I don't want to have to stop doing something entirely just because someone is camping my corpse.
The only time I have been flagged otherwise was killing that elite guy in plaguelands. Forgot his name. 5 minutes is not a problem unless you have a team member who refuses to turn off their flag and you don't want to disband him and try to spend 30 minutes finding a replacement. Again, the point was, it's not a bonus to play on a realm if you are forced to deal with frustration and have no benefit besides reduced wait time (which is disputed above anyway).
I never said I was hard at work. Just at work. Where I can't play Wow. I can only talk about it. And not even on WoW forums, because those leech too much bandwidth and are thus blocked. The precious time is my time at home actually playing wow.
You can get the exact same effect (living on the edge during questing) by flagging yourself in PvE at all times. That's going back to the point I made about PvP vs PvE realms. The only benefit of PvP is the potential reduced battleground wait time, because you can do everything else besides ganking unwilling victims in PvE that you can do in PvP, and it happens often enough such that someone aching for PvP fun can get it. There are still frequent town raids, and if you enjoy the danger of being vulnerable you can have it. What you can't have is the ability to put other players in danger who don't want to be. And you don't have the added negative of being forced to deal with corpse camping and frequent ganking when it's inconvenient and frustrating. Although you could if you really wanted, by turning PvP flag on.
When PvP realms were first out, before the honor system, there was a much bigger disparity and people who enjoyed raids and fighting PvP more or less were forced to join PvP realms. Now with the honor system, PvP battles are quite common and thus there is minimal difference, and most of the difference is negative. After the honor system, there was a 2 month period where all I did was battlegrounds and town raids. The only down side was that SOME (not all) battlegrounds had a really long wait. Well, that, and the fact that I had respec'd my priest to be a healbot for my guild and it was really killing me in BGs. Never once did I think, this would be more fun on a PvP server. Because it probably wouldn't.
You are very wrong about usually only seeing people your level. I am guessing that you think that because you have naturally gravitated towards safer zones for your levelling or something. See above from other posters. Any area where there is a high level instance has high level people travelling who are willing to gank you. I see level 70s on a constant basis now on PvE, and they aren't even out to kill me (although some are out to raid towns).
It used to be the only place I'd frequently see someone of the opposing faction of a much higher level was tirisfal glades (because people were going to SM), and occasionally STV. I probably would have seen a lot if I had quested in desolace, though, since maraudon is there. I rarely quest there because it's so incredibly boring.
Now you have instances in places where people actually quest a lot and the instances are a lot higher level than the rest of the zone. If you are questing in STV you see people heading towards ZG. See above about the chicken quest in Gadget.
Your answer is, don't go to STV. That's a sucky answer. Especially since Desolace has a lot of people going to Maraudon anyway.
And I got camped those several times because I willingly went into pvp or had a group member with a pvp flag. It's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. It would be a lot more annoying on a pvp server since there is no way to make them go away. Thus explaining the original reason I even replied to you in the first place... I don't want to have to stop doing something entirely just because someone is camping my corpse.
The only time I have been flagged otherwise was killing that elite guy in plaguelands. Forgot his name. 5 minutes is not a problem unless you have a team member who refuses to turn off their flag and you don't want to disband him and try to spend 30 minutes finding a replacement. Again, the point was, it's not a bonus to play on a realm if you are forced to deal with frustration and have no benefit besides reduced wait time (which is disputed above anyway).
I never said I was hard at work. Just at work. Where I can't play Wow. I can only talk about it. And not even on WoW forums, because those leech too much bandwidth and are thus blocked. The precious time is my time at home actually playing wow.
I think this is the key to the disconnect you guys seem to be having. As others in the pro-pvp set have stated in this thread, playing on a pvp server adds a sense of danger and alertness to the game that really has no equivalent on pve servers. Whether you enjoy that or not is a matter of personal preference. Personally, I love it and I'm more than willing to put up with all the associated griefing. Even if there were no tangible benefits (and there weren't when I started playing) I would still do it just to get the rush and sense of accomplishment that comes from winning an unexpected, hard fought battle against real players. It's just not the same when everyone gets to buff up and move into fighting formation before flagging themselves.
Just as an aside, I've been playing my new blood elf pally alt in STV all week with a friend, and we tend to pull in 30+ HK's a night while only getting ganked 2-3 times. This is on Azgalor, a "full" population server with an alliance bias that's been open since day 1. In fact this is my ninth 40+ character across 4 pvp and rp-pvp servers and I can say pretty confidently that I've never experienced the rampant ganking described in this thread.
VashHT
Diamond Member
You say that you're playing with your friend, which puts you at a big advantage. I tried soloing through STV on Gurubashi when it first opened on my UD rogue, and one day I was ganked 18 times before I ended up stopping for the day. The fact that you have safety in numbers and someone else to help you out means you're not experiencing as much griefing as a solo player. I would continually get gang banged by groups of people that were around my level, and also many times from people much hgiher than me. I think if I had someone to play with all the time I would be much mroe willing to play pvp servers, but trying to solo through one is a PITA
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