Wow! More idiots in Israel than I thought!

[JellyBaby]

Paltroll is best ignored.

There can be no peace in the middle east because the palestinian authority will not settle for anything less than the subjigation of the independent nation of israel. I'm not even sure why they bother with peace talks anymore...it makes no sense to me.

 

[fragarific]

There is no "Palestine" anymore. Thats only the broad name for some people over there.

 

[cwolfie]

Those Arab countries are going to do absolutely nothing. Israel has defeated them twice. Secondly , nobody really cares about the palestians because they have no wealth. Israel won that land in a war after they were attacked Pearl Harbor style by the arabs. The PLO is nothing more than a terrorist group. I do sympathize and feel bad for all those people who have died over there. The plain and simple fact is no peace will happen over there until the Lord Jesus Christ will take back this earth and set up his Kingdom. The wages of sin is death!

 

[StageLeft]

Religious people really scare me. I wonder how far humanity will have to evolve before we stop believing in fairy tales and looking to mystical stories for guidance?

 

[JellyBaby]

<< I wonder how far humanity will have to evolve before we stop believing in fairy tales and looking to mystical stories for guidance? >>

Skoorb, I don't think you understand: some people need the fairy tales and mystisicm. I don't really dig organized religion but as long as humans are touchy-feely creatures we'll need spirituality.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Religious people really scare me. I wonder how far humanity will have to evolve.... >>




There is nothing more religious than a Darwinist, with theory and no answers.

 

[zippy]

<sigh>

We side with Israel because we need a friend in that region for a few reasons. One of which is that when we go to war, they help out and they are conveniently right there to help us fight, let us dock, refuel, etc. There is no fscking way we are getting help from any other country in the Middle East just to fight against other Arab nations. Believe it or not, the US needs help sometimes because being out there is quite far from home.

It is not solely because there are many Jews in high places (there are 10 Jews in the Senate actually), but that doesn't hurt either, however it is not even close to the primary reason.

 

Religion was a very easy and effective way of controlling the small population back a few thousand years ago.
What else easier is there then spreading BS about how god will strike you down if you do dont what he says.
I believe its more commonly called the scare tactic.

 

[StageLeft]

mrpalco There is nothing more religious than a Darwinist, with theory and no answers Show me a totally contrary theory which does have the answers (sorry, religion doesn't count) and I'll ditch Darwinism in the blink of an eye. You and I are alike in that we both want answers. The difference between us is that I'm willing to look for them wherever I think I can find them. I will not grab onto the first answer I find and &quot;faithfully&quot; hold that it is the true answer if you can show me something more reasonable.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< the Palestineans just want their land back along with their basic human rights. >>



That will be possible only when the Palestinians acknowledge and embrace Israel as the Sovereign, and turn over illegally obtained, Israeli land.

Until that time, trespassing Palestinians that act as Outlaws will be dealt with as thugs gathered in a cellblock.

In the cellblock there are thugs that shout and bluster in order to subvert the weak....the Warden stands and chuckles in the front office....he knows that power is in his hands to lock down the lawbreakers.

 

[JellyBaby]

<< JB, the Palestineans just want their land back along with their basic human rights. They are not doing anything you or I wouldn't do if we were in their position >>

Red, I'm beginning to understand that but it still feels ackward in my craw. Israel's been a Western ally for so long and I'm extremely impressed with the IAF (their air force). On my map, Israel is its own country with independent soverignty. I feel for the folks who live there. Jew, christians, muslims...all fighting for eternity. It's nuts. The nitty of the gritty is either Israelis volunteer to be relocated and allow their land absorbed by the plo....or they choose to fight it out...this &quot;hanging in there&quot; isn't going anywhere.

 

[ElFenix]

<< But I suppose it's just as well, the Jew's need a nation to back them to prevent another Holocaust[/]

i'd like to point out that the jews were a nation back when the holocaust happened...

modern israel is a nation-state. in almost the worst sense. theres some bad stuff happening there.

 

[rahvin]

<<We side with Israel because we need a friend in that region for a few reasons. One of which is that when we go to war, they help out and they are conveniently right there to help us fight, let us dock, refuel, etc. There is no fscking way we are getting help from any other country in the Middle East just to fight against other Arab nations. Believe it or not, the US needs help sometimes because being out there is quite far from home.

It is not solely because there are many Jews in high places (there are 10 Jews in the Senate actually), but that doesn't hurt either, however it is not even close to the primary reason.>>

Was it not for the high number of Jewish residents in america make no doubt that the US would have the same stance europe does towards Isreal. Contempt. They are a terrorist nation, their presence in the gulf region creates WAY more problems and provides NO solutions. Our funding and support of Isreal single handely created the Islamic hatred of the US. Do not believe for a minute that they create a partner in the region for the US, their presence or even participation in dialogs will cause two opposing sides to unite against them and us. Their participation in the gulf war was strictly forbidden because their presence would have collapsed the arab collition. We neither need or desire their participation in any situation in the middle east because they are a force for DESTABLIZATION.

We support Isreal for two reasons and two reasons alone. Political (high number of active Jewish voters) and because they are a capitalist democracy.

<<i'd like to point out that the jews were a nation back when the holocaust happened...

modern israel is a nation-state. in almost the worst sense. theres some bad stuff happening there.>>

I have no idea if you are pulling a semantic on the word nation but I would like to point out that Israel did not exist as a nation until the war of 1947, years after WWII ended.

 

[Corn]

You guys keep falling for the oldest trick in the book................

....as if Paltroll were serious.

The reason he exists is obvious......perpetuating the stereotype against people who have faith in religion.


Y'all are a bunch of suckers.

 

[bluemax]

I just have to shake my head every time the anti-religion people start piping up. Almost all of them simply don't have a clue what's actually in the Bible. Mostly because if they've read it at all, they read only one tiny verse that didn't make sense to them.

The fun thing is that the Bible has proven itself several times throughout history, and many history books that have survived have also mentioned this &quot;Jesus of the Fairy Tales&quot;. The prophecies in the book of Daniel have all come to pass... (The whole idea of the statue with a head of gold(Nebuchadnezzar's great rule), arms/chest of silver(I don't remember the kindom offhand...), belly/thighs of brass(Medo/Persian rule...), legs of iron(Rome), and the feet with 10 toes, partly clay, partly iron - 10 divided nations that are powerful, but lacking in unity.
Those 10 nations came to pass as well, and 7 still exist today.
The reason for 7/10 came in the next Daniel message of the animals' horns.

It goes on, but suffice it to say, it was explained in the Bible, and perfectly coherent with historians. To those who think the Bible changes to adhere to local beliefs and times, explain how the dead sea scrolls found only 50 years ago (but written during the time of the Bible's creation) also match the Bible perfectly.

I didn't decide to follow Christ blindly, I researched everything quite thoroughly. This wasn't a brainwashing either.

I do have to wonder why you guys make such a big deal about attacking it with no justification, reasoning, or anything to back up your claims. You just hate anything that might ruin your perfectly complacent life in which you are the center. You want to be the big guy, and paying homage to anyone just bugs you. So you decide to attack the Christians. Not the Buddhists, or New Age psychics, or even the Islams and such. Only the Christans get this treatment....

Now if there's only two sides, Christ's and Satan's... (no sitting in the middle - you default to Satan's side if you DON'T choose) who do you think is the source of that revulsion and who do you think wins that particular battle?



Gah.... I just remembered how forumers work. I think this will be another wasted effort. Even so, I don't stand by my faith on just pure FAITH, I study to know what kind of person God/Jesus IS and he's not the monster you make him out to be.
You think a parent is a monster for grounding or spanking a misbehaving child?

 

[Moonbeam]

I had the same reaction. The people in Israel, rather than being wiser and more politically sophisticated than average as I had thought, seem to be just like everyone else, humanly manipulable through emotion. The job of understanding who and what we are, sadly, is at a primitive level everywhere.

 

[Kosugi]

Corn

You are right. I figured Paltroll out a while ago. Me thinks he is the biggest athiest on the board, having a bit of fun playing with Religious Wacko stereotypes. A bit clever of him, I'd have to say. I wonder who he really is...? It has to be one of the usual suspects...

 

[rebthor]

<< I have no idea if you are pulling a semantic on the word nation but I would like to point out that Israel did not exist as a nation until the war of 1947, years after WWII ended. >>



Read your Bible. The nation of Israel separated from the nation on Judea in I Kings, chapter 11.

Check your facts before you spout nonsense Rahvin

 

[rahvin]

<<The fun thing is that the Bible has proven itself several times throughout history, and many history books that have survived have also mentioned this &quot;Jesus of the Fairy Tales&quot;.>>

Name them, because you CAN'T. There are TWO non-biblical references to a Jesus from outside sources, one is believed to have been tampered with by early christains. I would also like to hear your thoughts on the number of failed prophecies in the bible. Given it's perfection in your eyes, how can the prophecies have failed?

<<To those who think the Bible changes to adhere to local beliefs and times, explain how the dead sea scrolls found only 50 years ago (but written during the time of the Bible's creation) also match the Bible perfectly.>>

Explain to me how the dead sea scrolls, most written before the time of Jesus, talk about things as doctorine that were (according to the bible) introduced by Jesus or after Jesus? Communion, love your neigherbor, and many many more.

<<It goes on, but suffice it to say, it was explained in the Bible, and perfectly coherent with historians.>>

There are many fictional books written today with a historical setting of the Civil War. In fact the places and events that occur in these fictional books for the most part happened and can be corrolated with known history. This doesn't make the story history.

<<I didn't decide to follow Christ blindly, I researched everything quite thoroughly.>>

No, you researched one source. That doesn't make it research.

<<I do have to wonder why you guys make such a big deal about attacking it with no justification, reasoning, or anything to back up your claims. You just hate anything that might ruin your perfectly complacent life in which you are the center. You want to be the big guy, and paying homage to anyone just bugs you. So you decide to attack the Christians. Not the Buddhists, or New Age psychics, or even the Islams and such. Only the Christans get this treatment....>>

I attack all religions equally, although to say Buddhism is a relgion is a disservice to it. Although techinically classified as one it has no stance or association with a god or gods. Christianity is attacked around these parts because it is the dominant religion in these parts, deal with it. I'm of the personal opinion that it is the easiest to poke holes in, almost as easy as Mormonism.

<<Now if there's only two sides, Christ's and Satan's... (no sitting in the middle - you default to Satan's side if you DON'T choose) who do you think is the source of that revulsion and who do you think wins that particular battle?>>

I would rather reign in Hell than serve in Heaven, but if you feel the need to be someone's servant go get me a drink ya patsy.

 

[rahvin]

<<Read your Bible. The nation of Israel separated from the nation on Judea in I Kings, chapter 11.

Check your facts before you spout nonsense Rahvin>>

The bible is a piece of fictional trash that has single handily resulted in the death of millions of people, find a reliable source you fvsking troll.

 

[bluemax]

So TERRIBLY sorry I didn't give you my entire Thesis on the subject. By not giving the entire study I give you too many easy &quot;loopholes&quot; to attack. Yep. You see one little thing and you decide to pick it to pieces, except for one thing.... you still don't have a clue what it's all about.

For example, you think that you reign in hell forever? Hell doesn't work that way. Hell doesn't even exist yet. It's only after 1000 years after Jesus' return and final judgement (and our opportunity to see the whole thing for ourselves) that He will then revive the rest of inhabitants of earth. The fires of hell are then lit... on earth. Those condemned to hellfire are not burned *forever* which would mean they get to be immortal even if in flames... Nope. They're consumed by the fires of hell never to exist again.
You can actually find out all this stuff for yourself in the Discover Bible series. They also include the reference books that coincide, not *juuuust* the Bible as you put it.

What could be easier than attacking something you know nothing about (and have only seen/heard some people talk about) and condemn it as stupid.
That's like complaining about the Radeon drivers when you don't even own one (or even KNOW someone who owns one.)

 

[rahvin]

<<You see one little thing and you decide to pick it to pieces, except for one thing.... you still don't have a clue what it's all about.>>

I'm so sorry god, you are so enlightened and the rest of us just don't understand anything. Thank you for pointing out your stupidity.

<<For example, you think that you reign in hell forever?>>

No actually I don't. I don't believe in hell, I don't believe in satan, and I don't believe in god. As a side note I don't believe in the tooth fairy or easter bunny either, but have an egg.

<<What could be easier than attacking something you know nothing about (and have only seen/heard some people talk about) and condemn it as stupid.>>

I would be willing to wager that I know more about your religion than you do. But of course you are all knowing and I of course am a complete idiot according to you. But everyone no matter how blind is allowed opinion.

BTW you didn't answer one single question I asked. Typical...

 

[Kosugi]

Farbio,

Not that I disagree with your motives, however, it must be this nations (US) policy to cease involvement in the that part of the Middle East all together. Somehow, someway, over the last 40 years, the US has gotten involved way to deep in the affairs of Israel. A peace deal would allow the US to back out of the region gracefully, with something to show for 40 years of investment in the region. Barak represents the best chance for the US to be able to back out, but regardless, back out the US must. Israel is a money pit, and while we in the US give unconditional support to the Israeli's, we make ourselves targets of radical muslims. It isn't in our best interest to stay involved in Israel any longer... especially with our close ties to both Saudi Arabia, and a grateful Kuwait.

If Sharon gets elected, then peace will not happen for half a decade at least. At this point, I say the US give knives to each and every Israeli and Palestinian and let them duke it out. Last man alive keeps it all. I know it sounds drastic, but if the Israeli's elect Sharon, they are saying to hell with peace and compromise. They would then earn the ire of the US, and for that matter, the world. Sharon gets elected, and you are on your own. Period. Arafat is actually far more palatable to the US (because he is willing to compromise, mainly on the return of the refugees) than Sharon.

The thing the US must do is to back out all together. A victory for Sharon is an insult to everything we have tried, and a signal that Israel wants to go it alone.

So be it.

 

[madthumbs]

bluemax;
I agree with what you're saying... but I don't believe in sending people to study bibles or churches or any organised religion. They seem to me to be consistently corrupt and a deterrent to the truth. I have discovered many errors in study bible notes and teachings. The best way to learn it is reading it over and over along with a sincere prayer for understanding. Any other way bypasses the Holy Spirit's instruction similar to the consumption of the forbidden fruit. Before the Bible's time there were prophets to instruct. They were authenticated with divine miracles and 100% accurate prophecies. Now that we have the Bible, prophets have died out, and we have the instruction of the Spirit through the writings that are authenticated as I'm sure you can see. If anyone claims to be an instructor, let them be authenticated by God Almighty before us.

btw... benny hinn and other &quot;charismatics&quot; are a sick joke so don't go there.

 

[fdiskboy]

rahvin,

I pity you.

ON topic however, I was not referring to the setting up of the Zionest regime in Palestine.

You would prefer to reign in Hell eh?

Interesting, to say the least. What's really funny, is you may call me a fool now, and I may be. What's horrible is that I may be right. If so, then you have no choice, your knee will bow someday, at the final judgement. You will have no choice.

Me? I pity you. I'm certainly not going to try to convince you. You have your beliefs, I have mine. I don't intend to belittle you as you enjoy doing to those who disagree with you.

Hatred is a horrible thing. It usually only consumes those who harbor it.