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Wow....knife sharpening

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Broheim said:
If I remember correctly then the story goes that when a viking would test his sword he put his blade in a stream and let a strand of hair flow down. If the hair was cut it was a good blade.

it's probably just a story, but the ulfberht swords made in Scandinavia (most likely) were completely unmatched in the quality of the steel for many centuries. (the technology that was needed to forge the steel shouldn't have been around back then).
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Watched a nova program about that sword, it was stated in the show the steel for those blades came from the middle east and was the same as Damascus steel, it's on netflix and it's titled "Secrets of the Viking Sword". was a pretty good show and they pretty much duplicated the process to make a accurate copy.
 
dawp said:
Watched a nova program about that sword, it was stated in the show the steel for those blades came from the middle east and was the same as Damascus steel, it's on netflix and it's titled "Secrets of the Viking Sword". was a pretty good show and they pretty much duplicated the process to make a accurate copy.
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yeah the most likely explanation for the steel is that it came from modern day Iran, and the ulfberht disappeared around the time the Russians closed down the volga trade route so it all fits together nicely. It's pretty impressive how far they traveled.

lxskllr said:
This it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXbLyVpWsVM
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thanks, will definitely watch this. Do they go into the whole ulfberht knock-off thing? it cracked me up when I first heard about it, my ancestors were some crafty bastards always looking for a quick buck.
 
Broheim said:
thanks, will definitely watch this. Do they go into the whole ulfberht knock-off thing? it cracked me up when I first heard about it, my ancestors were some crafty bastards always looking for a quick buck.
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Not in depth, but it was mentioned. It's more a technical story on how the sword was made, though culture is mentioned as a sideline.
 
shortylickens said:
Unless you got some VERY special steel, a razor edge will just roll over and then you cant cut a damn thing.
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True, you need VG-10, SG2, COWRY-X, ZDP-189 or some such hard steel to hold a 15 degree or sharper edge for any appreciable time without rolling over the edge. Though some manufacturers such as MAC use their own proprietary blend with tungsten in it for example.

The question I have: Is a VG-10 Damascus knife going to hold it's edge longer than a plain VG-10 blade? The metal hardness is presumably the same but the process the blade is made by is different.

For example you can get a Tojiro DP VG-10 8" chef's knife for around $70, whereas a Shun or Kasumi VG-10 8" Damascus will be more than twice the price. Will they have the same wear resistance, edge retention?
 
All the data I've seen says damascus is quite a bit harder than the other stuff. That can be good or bad depending on what you want.

I'm actually ok with the softer steels at home since I can sharpen easily.

The harder steels I prefer in the woods since I may not be able to stop and inspect the blade every 5 minutes if I'm trying to set up camp in the driving rain.
 
I have that same Tojiro santoku. I use it every day in the kitchen at work. Holds an edge great and super sharp. I use Shun at home, and they are a little harder, but still hold a great edge. The Tojiro DP are a sandwich style blade. Softer core between layers of harder steel. Make sharpening easier and a much sharper edge.
 
Chocu1a said:
I have that same Tojiro santoku. I use it every day in the kitchen at work. Holds an edge great and super sharp. I use Shun at home, and they are a little harder, but still hold a great edge. The Tojiro DP are a sandwich style blade. Softer core between layers of harder steel. Make sharpening easier and a much sharper edge.
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Softcore? I thought that was only in porn. Isn't the core the part that's going to be the edge? Shouldn't that be the hardest part? Otherwise it will bend over through use right?
 
Can a knife ever be too sharp?

I mean as long as it can hold the edge, who would complain that a knife is too sharp? the sharper the better IMHO.
 
disappoint said:
Can a knife ever be too sharp?

I mean as long as it can hold the edge, who would complain that a knife is too sharp? the sharper the better IMHO.
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The sharper it is, the thinner the outer edge (the part that actually does the cutting) is. If it gets too thin and the steel can't withstand the force, the edge will actually fold over, causing the blade to be dull after only a few cuts.

Sharpening is all about finding a sweet spot for the steel (and heat treatment) you're working with. Often times, you don't even need to take it to the point where you can shave hair off of your arm.
 
disappoint said:
Softcore? I thought that was only in porn. Isn't the core the part that's going to be the edge? Shouldn't that be the hardest part? Otherwise it will bend over through use right?
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ruh-roh! I got that switched around. You are correct, sir,
 
disappoint said:
True, you need VG-10, SG2, COWRY-X, ZDP-189 or some such hard steel to hold a 15 degree or sharper edge for any appreciable time without rolling over the edge. Though some manufacturers such as MAC use their own proprietary blend with tungsten in it for example.

The question I have: Is a VG-10 Damascus knife going to hold it's edge longer than a plain VG-10 blade? The metal hardness is presumably the same but the process the blade is made by is different.

For example you can get a Tojiro DP VG-10 8" chef's knife for around $70, whereas a Shun or Kasumi VG-10 8" Damascus will be more than twice the price. Will they have the same wear resistance, edge retention?
Click to expand...

A few things:

1. I don't think Damascus steel is really the same process as what was used to create the original damascus blades.

2. The Shun VG-10 damascus knife (I have it), is a solid VG-10 core that is just like other VG-10 knives. The "damascus" look is made by bonding additional layers of high carbon steel to the central core. These additional layers are largely aesthetic only. They do provide strength to the blade, but they aren't anywhere near the cutting edge.
 
silverpig said:
A few things:

1. I don't think Damascus steel is really the same process as what was used to create the original damascus blades.

2. The Shun VG-10 damascus knife (I have it), is a solid VG-10 core that is just like other VG-10 knives. The "damascus" look is made by bonding additional layers of high carbon steel to the central core. These additional layers are largely aesthetic only. They do provide strength to the blade, but they aren't anywhere near the cutting edge.
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I did some more research into this and it looks like most agree with you that the damascus cladding is mostly for looks. The heat treatment the blade goes through when it's made probably has more bearing on how it will perform and hold an edge.

I'm researching because I'm looking to upgrade from my cheap (but good) Forschner Victorinox chef's knife to something that can hold an edge much longer between sharpenings. Also I'd rather a sharper 15 or 16 deg. edge than a 20 deg. one.

I thought about Shun's Elite line made of SG2 which is harder than VG-10 but I'd rather the edge bend than chip and I my research leads me to think SG2 might be too hard and prone to chipping. IMHO a bent edge can be fixed more easily than a chipped one.
 
I'm not aware of too any large scale production for kitchen knives, but if you're looking into high end steels: CPM3v (semi stainless) and CPM S30v (stainless). Overkill for the kitchen, IMHO, but some of the best knife steel available. Especially the 3v.
 
disappoint said:
True, you need VG-10, SG2, COWRY-X, ZDP-189 or some such hard steel to hold a 15 degree or sharper edge for any appreciable time without rolling over the edge. Though some manufacturers such as MAC use their own proprietary blend with tungsten in it for example.

The question I have: Is a VG-10 Damascus knife going to hold it's edge longer than a plain VG-10 blade? The metal hardness is presumably the same but the process the blade is made by is different.

For example you can get a Tojiro DP VG-10 8" chef's knife for around $70, whereas a Shun or Kasumi VG-10 8" Damascus will be more than twice the price. Will they have the same wear resistance, edge retention?
Click to expand...


I have a couple Spyderco ZDP-189 pocket knives at 18°
I don't think I'd go 15°¿
 
disappoint said:
I did some more research into this and it looks like most agree with you that the damascus cladding is mostly for looks. The heat treatment the blade goes through when it's made probably has more bearing on how it will perform and hold an edge.

I'm researching because I'm looking to upgrade from my cheap (but good) Forschner Victorinox chef's knife to something that can hold an edge much longer between sharpenings. Also I'd rather a sharper 15 or 16 deg. edge than a 20 deg. one.

I thought about Shun's Elite line made of SG2 which is harder than VG-10 but I'd rather the edge bend than chip and I my research leads me to think SG2 might be too hard and prone to chipping. IMHO a bent edge can be fixed more easily than a chipped one.
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I'm happy with my VG-10, but would probably be happier with SG-2. Harder lasts longer. I've noticed a few chips, but that's after my wife tries to hack the turkey apart. With a good wetstone, you can get rid of the chips easily.
 
silverpig said:
I'm happy with my VG-10, but would probably be happier with SG-2. Harder lasts longer. I've noticed a few chips, but that's after my wife tries to hack the turkey apart. With a good wetstone, you can get rid of the chips easily.
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I'm not so sure you'd be happier with SG-2. I get the feeling from reading reviews that you have to treat SG-2 like ceramic blades because they are brittle.

Speaking of ceramics, I bought a Cuisinart ceramic blade in a store on impulse because it was right next to the Kyocera ceramic knives and was half the price. It seems rather dull but more chip resistant. I will be reshaping it's edge to be as sharp as a Kyocera soon as well. Though once I do I will have to treat it even more gently than I already do.
 
disappoint said:
I'm not so sure you'd be happier with SG-2. I get the feeling from reading reviews that you have to treat SG-2 like ceramic blades because they are brittle.

Speaking of ceramics, I bought a Cuisinart ceramic blade in a store on impulse because it was right next to the Kyocera ceramic knives and was half the price. It seems rather dull but more chip resistant. I will be reshaping it's edge to be as sharp as a Kyocera soon as well. Though once I do I will have to treat it even more gently than I already do.
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What are you going to sharpen it with?
 
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