Wow, ESPN article disses on Shaq! (ripped from fark.com)

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jbahseng

Golden Member
Mar 13, 2001
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hahaha, robinson runs the floor like a guard... hehehe, ok... if you REALLY believe that... shaq runs the floor occasionally too... but don't forget, he's got a bad set of wheels... how much mobility would YOU have if you had an arthritic big toe, and at times two sprained ankles...?

how do i hate olajuwon? i said he's the SH!T!!!... yes, i did forget about the footwork, but shaq has good footwork too, maybe not as good as the dream, but he doesn't need it as much with his strength... Olajawon is the current block leader... but wait until some other people get to the point in their career which olajawon is... the dream has a LOT of years under his belt... and btw, to those who say shaq is always charging with his shoulder and stuff... he's just leaning and bumping just like all other post up players do... so you want to punish him for being bigger than everyone? i mean they already let everyone put two hands and forearms all over his back, now you want to punish him for being bigger and stronger than other peple?

Yeah, David Robinson run the floor like a guard is too exagerrate :p , but it just like people saying O'neal with GREAT footwork, the fastest center, good play maker with elegant and grace, with nice touch and great skill...... Yes, he is the strongest and the most dominant force, but i don't think he is the fastest center with the best footwork. He get around people a lot because he is too strong and he bump around a lot. There is nothing wrong with a "little" bumping under the basket, but not lowering the shoulder and bump into the defender.
 

CrazyDe1

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
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I hate shaq...hes not fun to watch...I don't like people that are only good cause they're bigger than everyone. Catch and dunk isn't basketball..it sucks...its not fun to watch and it doens't take too much to jump up and dunk when your'e that much bigger than everyone
 

CKDragon

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2001
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the point of the article was not to say that shaq isn't far and away the most effective center in the league.

his point is that the game, involving shaq, is ugly and less fun to watch.

bigalt, Thankfully you and a few others actually got the point of the article. The text isn't saying that Shaq sucks or anything else, it's saying that he's an absolute bore to watch. Fast, speedy guards are many times more entertaining to watch than some big log that jams up the paint. Even some larger players like Garnett, Webber and McGrady entertain the fans with their quick, athletic maneuvers.

To the Lakers fans I will ask this: If you had the option of winning the same amount of games/the championship with two unstoppable guards in the mold of Kobe and Iverson on your team or sticking with Shaq and Kobe, which team do you think would be more entertaining to watch?

Undoubtedly, the team with two electrifying, fast players would be a more fun team to watch. That's all the article is trying to say. Certainly, the author does exaggerate to get his point across. What member of the media doesn't?

CK

[EDIT] Clarity :D [/EDIT]
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
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Aug 22, 2001
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Originally posted by: CKDragon
the point of the article was not to say that shaq isn't far and away the most effective center in the league.

his point is that the game, involving shaq, is ugly and less fun to watch.

bigalt, Thankfully you and a few others actually got the point of the article. The text isn't saying that Shaq sucks or anything else, it's saying that he's an absolute bore to watch. Fast, speedy guards are many times more entertaining to watch than some big log that jams up the paint. Players like Garnett, Webber and McGrady entertain the fans with their quick, athletic maneuvers.

To the Lakers fans I will ask this: If you had the option of winning the same amount of games/the championship with two unstoppable guards in the mold of Kobe and Iverson on your team or sticking with Shaq and Kobe, which team do you think would be more entertaining to watch?

Undoubtedly, the team with two electrifying, fast players would be a more fun team to watch. That's all the article is trying to say. Certainly, the author does exaggerate to get his point across. What member of the media doesn't?

CK
In a sense your describing the Jordan/Pipin era in Chicago. You didn't hear any complaints concerning boring games back then ;)

 

nitsuj3580

Platinum Member
Jun 13, 2001
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I'm sorry. This article is rather pathetic. This article could apply to anyone in the NBA pretty much. The traveling and bumping and elbowing and whatever nonsense they try to convict Shaq of. Everyone knows you can take 3-4 steps in the NBA and not get called for traveling. Guys take one dribble from outside the three point line and manage to find a way to dunk the ball without "traveling". More than 50% of the plays for any team is throw it into the post and let that guy bump and bang and back down his defender. Just cuz Shaq is huge doesn't mean he can't do it. And because he's bigger its more noticable. I'm sure he leads the league in offensive fouls cuz of all the floppers guarding him. He knows that and he deals with it. I questioned Shaqs skills a little bit but his improvement at the free throw line, sealing off guys in the paint (legally, I might add) for rebounds and post position, and banking turn away 10-12 footers from the block have impressed me quite a bit.

I'd rather watch a college game any day over an NBA game but Shaq knows how the modern day NBA game is played these days and he's one of the best!
 

m2kewl

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
I hate shaq...hes not fun to watch...I don't like people that are only good cause they're bigger than everyone. Catch and dunk isn't basketball..it sucks...its not fun to watch and it doens't take too much to jump up and dunk when your'e that much bigger than everyone

So true... No perimeter shooting skills, still can't shoot free throws.
 

AGodspeed

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2001
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I absolutely agree that Robinson was one of the very best (in terms of speed, athleticism, play-making, etc.). Unfortunately, injuries have greatly slowed down his career in the past few years, and since then the Duncan era has come along.

CKDragon, I'm sorry, but I think you've misinterpreted what this article is trying to say. I don't get the feeling that this Royce Webb guy is saying Shaq is making the game more boring. Here's a little bit of what Webb said:

I'm sure I don't have to tell you, Diesel, the guys with real skillz -- the Speedy Claxtons, Steve Nashes and Troy Hudsons, as well as the Iversons, Kidds and Kobes -- can do things you can only dream about.

He's attacking Shaq by simply stating that he has no ?skillz? (skills), in addition to saying he's fat, slow, and has a big butt among other unnecessary insults. Essentially, Webb is saying it takes no ?skillz" to dominate as a center in the NBA as Shaq does. I?m surprised ESPN picked up this sports ?analyst.?

Come to think of it, maybe part of Webb?s point was that Shaq's game is "ugly" and that makes the game more boring for him. That's his opinion, nothing more. Personally I like watching Shaq dominate the floor. Webb obviously likes to watch guards take over the floor, good for him.

pyonir; original response, your arguments look much more convincing now.
rolleye.gif
 

HamSupLo

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
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How many Stanley Roberts, Bryant Reeves, Todd McCoulaughs, Aryvedes Sabonis, Gheorgh Muresans, etc does it take to prove that being tall and big does mean anything? Shaq obviously has something that all the other centers lack besides height and bulk. I think that word is skill.

That comparison of Shaq to a 6'1 guard is stupid. I guess if Iverson was a 7'1, he wouldn't have a post up game, drop step, up and under, and jump hook moves, right? Apples and Oranges man.
 

CKDragon

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Jan 22, 2001
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CKDragon, I'm sorry, but I think you've misinterpreted what this article is trying to say. I don't get the feeling that this Royce Webb guy is saying Shaq is making the game more boring. Here's a little bit of what Webb said:

I'm sure I don't have to tell you, Diesel, the guys with real skillz -- the Speedy Claxtons, Steve Nashes and Troy Hudsons, as well as the Iversons, Kidds and Kobes -- can do things you can only dream about.

He's attacking Shaq by simply stating that he has no ?skillz? (skills), in addition to saying he's fat, slow, and has a big butt among other unnecessary insults. Essentially, Webb is saying it takes no ?skillz" to dominate as a center in the NBA as Shaq does. I?m surprised ESPN picked up this sports ?analyst.?

The opening paragraph throws the point right out there that his reason for writing is that he wants the faster, more athletic style of gameplay to come back to prominence:
We want it back. We want back the game you've devoured along with all the pizzas, Shaq Packs, Cap'n Crunch cereal and chocolate milk it takes to keep that 350-pound engine running. Big Aristotle, if you are as wise and generous as your namesake, the Original Big Aristotle, you'll give basketball back to the little people.


As I said, Webb was exaggerating as many analysts do. Of course Shaq has skills, but if someone was to say that Shaq's skills take as much talent as Kobe, Iverson or Kidd I would heartily disagree. Basketball is a big man's game, always has been and always will be. Shaq is entitled to that advantage. Just because he may be a more effective player doesn't mean that he is more exciting or entertaining.

Basketball is a business and Shaq, as much as he helps his team with his style of play, is bad for business.

CK
 

DaSinical1

Senior member
Nov 3, 1999
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This is typical. I find it funny that no one was complaining about shaq's size and game when they got swept 3 years ago by the jazz. Now everyone's hateing because the lakers have been so dominant. But why have the lakers been dominant? It's because Phil taught them how to take their game to the next level. They improved their game while every other team just sat their dormant. Sure, I have been a lakers fan since the showtime lakers but I also have to admit that b-ball has become boreing. Not because Shaq and the rest of the crew have been so dominant, but because up until the Kings, no one has raised the level of their play to match the Lakers. I give all the respect in the world to the Kings who finally decided not to be scared of Shaq and take it to him. The only way your gonna beat him is to force him to foul out...the Kings found that out...whats holding back all the other teams? Another interesting note is that theirs a poll on espn on what was the best lakers team...and the overwhelming favorite is magics and kareems showtime lakers. And, I have to agree. They had the run and gun offence with the dominant half court game. This lakers team is almost strictly halfcourt but if thats what wins the championships...the more power to them. Message to the rest of the teams and their fans.....

Stop complaining and find a way to win. The kings proved it possible. And as much as I hate to say it, I hope Jerry West can build a dominant team in the east so that the Finals would feel more like the Finals instead of pre-season.
 

nightowl

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2000
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If the refs in the NBA would actually call the game according to the rule book players like Shaq would not have their advantage over other players. Too many players sit and camp under the basket (3 seconds), travel, and foul and get away with it. This is why I hardly watch the NBA anymore. College is much more exciting to watch and the game is called much closer. How many times have you heard that the refs were calling it close to set the tone for the game this year? I cannot recall 1 time I have heard that but in college games I hear it all the time. Refs call the game close to keep the players honest and that sets the tone for the game.
 

SuperCyrix

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2001
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About 80 guys in the NBA are 6-11 or taller (and as you know, a lot of them appear to be in the league just to foul you).

Much of what he said is true. Shaq's got no game. He scores because the refs let him get away with the offensive fouls.

Big Thumper, and I mean this as constructive criticism, it would be nice if you could find a way to get to the basket against a defender without fouling him. It's quite a bag of tricks you've developed down there -- the swim stroke, the hook with the elbow, the sledgehammer shoulder in the chest, the innocent elbow to the chops, the head-on charge -- and I would hate to cast aspersions on such a finely tuned repertoire, but perhaps a refresher on the rulebook would help

And the travelling violations that never gets called, the bunny hop
every kid knows it's not legal to pick up your dribble and then stumble-step-hop-jumpstop your way to the hoop.
 

bmd

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Feb 17, 2001
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Basketball is a business and Shaq, as much as he helps his team with his style of play, is bad for business.
Bad for business? I'm assuming you don't mean for the Laker's business... LA loves Shaq and he puts people in the seats.
 

UCDznutz

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May 11, 2002
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haha damn did anyone even remember that game 4 is on right now? i completely forgot till now. throughout the playoffs i was anticipating every game since the first round, but now its like just pointless
 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
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There are some quotes from Pete Newell about Shaq in the following article. I trust Pete Newell's opinion about basketball and basketball players a lot more than the dude that wrote that ESPN article.

Sizing up Shaq

For 20 precious minutes last week in Los Angeles, I managed to drag Shaquille O'Neal away from the mongrel horde of print journalists (notice how I skillfully disassociate myself from that group) covering the NBA Finals. As I interviewed Shaq at the Lakers' practice facility, a dozen photographers grabbed their weapons and flashbulbs started popping. I imagined that in newspapers all over the world a caption would appear the next day that read: Shaquille O'Neal chats with unidentified reporter. The photo went out on The Associated Press wire and several papers picked it up. Thus, for the next few days, I found myself fielding some version of the following comment: I can't believe how small he made you look.


People around the office started calling me "Mini-Me." Someone said that I looked like a cub reporter from SI For Kids. A friend clipped out the photo and sent it to me along with a note that read: 1 Shaq = 2 Jacks.

Those remarks, and various others made over the last few months, made me realize what an issue O'Neal's size is, how almost every day of his life since he was five or six years old (he says he was the biggest kid around even then) he's had to deal with being larger than everyone else. I'm not going to go so far as to say I feel sorry for him; obviously, his dimensions (7-foot-1, somewhere between 345 and 380 pounds, depending on whom you believe) have something to do with his being where he is, which is, at this writing, on the verge of winning a third straight NBA championship. But Shaq is so large and so dominating and so relentless in throwing his weight around, that, to many, his size is the only reason he's successful. That simply is not fair. He is graceful and agile, smart and savvy, talented and tough. Somebody told me once that there are more than 1,000,000 seven-footers in the world; only one of them is currently dominating the NBA Finals.

Basketball people, of course, know how good Shaq is. The comparison that comes up most often is Wilt Chamberlain, who in his day was also described as a freak of nature who dominated solely because of his size and strength. (Kobe Bryant, incidentally, gave O'Neal the nickname Wilt Chamberneezy; Shaq had it printed on a baseball cap.) It is heresy in some quarters to suggest that Shaq measures up to a man who in the 1961-'62 season averaged an unimaginable 50.4 points per game. But it's becoming less so, and it's not only contemporary chroniclers who find O'Neal as formidable as The Big Dipper.

"People think it's all power with Shaq, but they're wrong," says 86-year-old Pete Newell, the big-man guru who coached against Wilt and who schooled Shaq at his offseason camp in the early '90s. "Here's what I've seen [O'Neal] do in one game: Bank off the glass. Little lob hook in the paint. Step-back move on the baseline. Quick spin move when he comes out on the other side to shoot. And a neat step-through move when he was doubled or tripled. You go over the history of centers and can you remember anyone, except maybe Hakeem Olajuwon, showing all that? And Hakeem didn't have the power game. I don't like to rate players according to who's best, but none of the great centers had Shaq's moves and counters, and none of them, including Wilt, had his strength."

Newell also takes to task the notion that Shaq is so good mainly because he has Bryant as a teammate. (The same theory is offered about Bryant, of course.) "Do you think Bill Russell didn't have great players around him?" asks Newell, who goes through the litany of Russell's great Boston Celtics teammates such as Bob Cousy, Bill Sharman, Sam Jones, K.C. Jones, Tommy Heinsohn. "Wilt played with a lot of great players. [Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, Lucious Jackson in Philadelphia, and some guys named West, Baylor and Goodrich on the Lakers.] Kareem had Oscar Robertson in Milwaukee and some fairly good guys later in his career in L.A. [Magic Johnson, James Worthy, Byron Scott, etc.] Great centers usually have great teammates, but it's partly because they make those teammates better."

Well, I'll bow, as I always do, to Newell's expertise. I do know that O'Neal has shown far more basketball acumen throughout these playoffs than he ever has before. Obviously, he has a power game, but in this postseason he's shown three other things, too: He has increased the range on his fallaway bank shot, he has shown (unlike many frontcourtmen) that he is comfortable setting up on either side of the block, and he passes out of a double- (and triple-) team as well as any center in the league.


All that, and he got my face into a lot of newspapers.
 

UCDznutz

Banned
May 11, 2002
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oh yeah, and those who think SHaq has no skill and dominats just because he's bigger than everyone, how bout Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul Jabbar? nobody complained about them dominating in their primes for being bigger and taller than everyone else. Neither had a jump shot and they both had mainly post moves. Centers aren't supposed to be making jumpshots anyways. Their job is to take it to the inside and score from there or grab rebounds, not take perimeter shots.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
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What all the retarded fakers fanboys fail to realize is that the article is complaining more about how the refs allow shaq to break EXPLICIT rules and let him capitalize that way on his size.
 

WyteRyce

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Apr 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: Phokus
What all the retarded fakers fanboys fail to realize is that the article is complaining more about how the refs allow shaq to break EXPLICIT rules and let him capitalize that way on his size.

This thread makes me sad. Say anything negative about the Lakers, such as Shaq is boring to watch, and the LA fans come out of the wood work and claim its all just Laker bashing. Come on guys. Be real. Even you can admit that it is a hell of a lot more fun to watch Kobe work his magic than Shaq.

Who were the people that brought the NBA into its hayday. Magic, Byrd, and later on Jordan. Why? Because they were freakin amazing to watch. Yeah, Kareem was one of the greatest of all time. But why is Magic more popular than he is?

And to the people that dissed on David Robinson and The Dream, have you watch any basketball at all in the past? Or are you just band wagon Laker fans who praise the ground that Shaq walks on? All Olajawon could do was ball fake? Yeah, you have no clue what you are talking about. And Shaq has yet to score 71 points in a game.
 

WyteRyce

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Apr 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: jooksing
How many Stanley Roberts, Bryant Reeves, Todd McCoulaughs, Aryvedes Sabonis, Gheorgh Muresans, etc does it take to prove that being tall and big does mean anything? Shaq obviously has something that all the other centers lack besides height and bulk. I think that word is skill.


Oh my god. You are saying that Sabonis has no skill. Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Keep in mind that NBA fans didn't even see this man in his prime. How many other big men could shoot a 3 pointer or have guard like passing ability? Yeah, Shaq outplayed him. But how old was Sabonis? And how many more injuries did he have over Shaq?
 

CKDragon

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2001
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Originally posted by: bmd
Basketball is a business and Shaq, as much as he helps his team with his style of play, is bad for business.
Bad for business? I'm assuming you don't mean for the Laker's business... LA loves Shaq and he puts people in the seats.

Yes, LA does love Shaq. No one else can stand his banging, bump-and-grind style of play. And you can't possibly make the argument that people don't like Shaq only because he beats their favorite team. People don't like to watch Shaq because he's a boring player to watch. The reason the fans were so endearing towards Jordan was because even when he dominated people were entertained by him. You can't say the same about Shaq.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Kobe is a more fun player to watch than Shaq. Because of the slower, less electrifying style of play ratings are down and the NBA isn't thriving.

CK
 

Dudd

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Aug 3, 2001
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The guy has a point. Shaq, as good as he is, makes the game extremely boring. I'd rather see guards fast breaking down the court, running at all times, up tempo games. With Shaq, all we get is one dominant guy being dumped the ball down low, and then he overpowers everyone to score. Effective, but not very entertaining.
 

slikmunks

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2001
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ok, they're saying shaq is too big and strong... aww boo hoo... but don't u realize, that's one of the fundamental points of the game of basketball? find the mismatches and exploit them... it's what everyone in the league does... so they're mad because he exploits his mismatch better than everyone else? c'mon... everyone does it, why just point out shaq... how about kenyon martin posting on kobe when he gets the chance, how about j.kidd posting up on fisher when he has the chance? it's everywhere in the game... get over it!