Wow. Bitcoin is almost $1,500

[Capt Caveman]

I know this makes potentially no sense, but if bitcoin basically becomes worth infinity, doesn't that solve all wealth inequality problems, healthcare problems, and food and hunger problems?

Is bitcoin the second coming of Jesus? Is this heaven on Earth?

Never heard of inflation?

 

[Svnla]

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/22/bitcoin-crypto-crashed-hard/

 

[Capt Caveman]

Bought more bitcoin at $11.5k and litecoin at $197

 

[Yakk]

Bought more bitcoin at $11.5k and litecoin at $197

Then you probably already made 20% profit on the bounce depending on your exchange. Well done.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Then you probably already made 20% profit on the bounce depending on your exchange. Well done.

Yeah I saw it down big time this morning but had to take my dogs to the park so I missed the bottom but good to see my timing was pretty good. This is not for the faint of heart!

 

[Yakk]

Yeah I saw it down big time this morning but had to take my dogs to the park so I missed the bottom but good to see my timing was pretty good. This is not for the faint of heart!

You did excellent! And as I posted earlier it's a Trader's paradise right now!

It's the most brutal unregulated market on earth. Extreme risk = Extreme Reward

 

[TheVrolok]

You did excellent! And as I posted earlier it's a Trader's paradise right now!

It's the most brutal unregulated market on earth. Extreme risk = Extreme Reward

Is it really a trading then, or simply gambling? (obviously all trading is a gamble, but this seems to even be more so than playing with bizarre derivatives)

 

[brianmanahan]

Is bitcoin the second coming of Jesus? Is this heaven on Earth?

that's when you know it's a bubble

 

[momeNt]

that's when you know it's a bubble

 

[Yakk]

Is it really a trading then, or simply gambling? (obviously all trading is a gamble, but this seems to even be more so than playing with bizarre derivatives)

It should be calculated like any technical analysis of trading charts. If anything crypto is much more extreme & predictable in its behavior. So we could say compared to stocks & Forex trading it's the least like gambling IMHO.

 

[TheVrolok]

It should be calculated like any technical analysis of trading charts. If anything crypto is much more extreme & predictable in its behavior. So we could say compared to stocks & Forex trading it's the least like gambling IMHO.

I guess it depends on how we define gambling, and also what stocks we're talking about. If gambling is directly proportional to risk, then I find it really difficult to believe that CC is the least like gambling in light of how easy it is to find value stocks for buy and hold investors.

 

[Yakk]

I guess it depends on how we define gambling, and also what stocks we're talking about. If gambling is directly proportional to risk, then I find it really difficult to believe that CC is the least like gambling in light of how easy it is to find value stocks for buy and hold investors.

Buy & Hold crypto then, it's the same thing. Those who held BTC for years could've cashed out at 18x profit margin on this year alone. BTC is still up 12x on the year if someone wants to cash out right now at the time of writing this.

 

[IronWing]

In theory, stock valuations are somewhat related to underlying productivity and earnings potential. Bitcoin has no underlying productivity nor inherent earnings. The "earnings potential" is simply speculation on future value… gambling.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Be careful not to catch a falling knife!

 

[TheVrolok]

Buy & Hold crypto then, it's the same thing. Those who held BTC for years could've cashed out at 18x profit margin on this year alone. BTC is still up 12x on the year if someone wants to cash out right now at the time of writing this.

What makes you think there will be a general trend upward over the next say, 30 years?

 

[TheVrolok]

In theory, stock valuations are somewhat related to underlying productivity and earnings potential. Bitcoin has no underlying productivity nor inherent earnings. The "earnings potential" is simply speculation on future value… gambling.

Got to my point more quickly than I.

 

[Yakk]

What makes you think there will be a general trend upward over the next say, 30 years?

Bitcoin's value itself doesn't change. If there's an up trend it means whatever fiat is compared to it is losing value against it.

 

[TheVrolok]

Bitcoin's value itself doesn't change. If there's an up trend it means whatever fiat is compared to it is losing value against it.

So what makes you think that fiat will devalue steadily over the next 30 years? Also, are you suggesting that around the world local currencies are simply rapidly devaluing and then reversing trend?

Simply, suggesting CC is less risky than traditionally traded value stocks is a bit silly, no?

 

[IronWing]

Bitcoin's value itself doesn't change. If there's an up trend it means whatever fiat is compared to it is losing value against it.

While that is a valid point of view, in the case of the dollar, the fact that the prices of other commodities are not fluctuating wildly in dollar terms suggests that the instability in relative value lies with Bitcoin.

 

[zinfamous]

So what makes you think that fiat will devalue steadily over the next 30 years? Also, are you suggesting that around the world local currencies are simply rapidly devaluing and then reversing trend?

Simply, suggesting CC is less risky than traditionally traded value stocks is a bit silly, no?

I'm starting to think the BTC zealots have been buying pamphlets from Glenn Beck.

 

[Charmonium]

LoL... Bitcoin is just... Bitcoin. There will only ever be 21m of them, it's trustless, and decentralized. Fixing issues is something for people to do, not a crypto-currency. Although it could certainly help.

The reason a fiat currency can potentially crash against BTC is the sheer amount of new fiat currency being printed has reached ridiculous levels (along with net negative interest rates) and bitcoin just highlights that incredibly well by being deflationary. Essentially just by doing nothing Bitcoin gains in value just because fiat currencies lose so much value on their own daily.

Example: a rib steak that used to cost 0.10 cents 90 years ago now cost maybe 100x that now. The rib steak itself didn't change, it's the currency purchasing it which has drastically decreased in value against it.

The fed in particular and central banks in general have learned a lot since the inflation of the 70s and 80s. They're much more adept as adjusting the money supply for the purpose of counterbalancing the economy - in other words, stimulating economic activity during recessions and damping it during expansions.

And I'd point out that despite the fed pumping more than 3 trillion in liquidity into the economy since 2008, inflation has barely budged.

But because regulating the money supply is an inexact art, central banks will always favor a small amount of inflation - generally in the range of 1-2%. That allows them enough of a margin to avoid deflation - which can easily create a self-reinforcing feedback loop.

 

[ponyo]

The fed in particular and central banks in general have learned a lot since the inflation of the 70s and 80s. They're much more adept as adjusting the money supply for the purpose of counterbalancing the economy - in other words, stimulating economic activity during recessions and damping it during expansions.

And I'd point out that despite the fed pumping more than 3 trillion in liquidity into the economy since 2008, inflation has barely budged.

But because regulating the money supply is an inexact art, central banks will always favor a small amount of inflation - generally in the range of 1-2%. That allows them enough of a margin to avoid deflation - which can easily create a self-reinforcing feedback loop.

You have lot more faith in central bankers than me. They're only in control until they aren't. They claim they're not concerned about bitcoin and alt currencies. Yeah right.

 

[Charmonium]

You have lot more faith in central bankers than me. They're only in control until they aren't. They claim they're not concerned about bitcoin and alt currencies. Yeah right.

I don't have any special insight into what the fed thinks but I'd be surprised if they were concerned about cryptos. If they ever became a plausible threat to the dollar they'd simply be legislated out of existence. If you can't buy and sell something, it tends to lose its value.

But personally, I don't see any crypto becoming such a threat. They're all far to cumbersome for everyday use. Plus there's always the risk of theft through hacking. If you have to keep all of your coinage in off-line wallets to ensure security, that tends to make them difficult to use.

And even if you do manage to find a solution that let's you carry a crypto around with you in a secure device, there's still the issue of volatility. Why would you ever hold something that you know can rise or drop in value by 10, 20% or more in a matter of hours.

If you actually needed a crypto for a particular purpose, it would make much more sense to just buy as much as you need when you need it.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah crypto is rather niche at this point and I don't really see it gain traction to the point of normal currencies. Ex: you can't pay your bills with it. That alone makes it unsuitable for most every day use. Businesses/people that do accept crypto coin then convert it to real money because that's what they need to pay their bills and other living expenses like food. Pretty much everything we do revolves around paying bills and living expenses so you will always need to have real money in hand.

 

[Yakk]

Oh, I'm not much for arguing. Everyone can research on their own and draw their own conclusions. BTC ETFs are coming to the NYSE so that will be another small step toward mainstream which probably came too fast IMO... E-mails took 20 years to go from massive command line commands to easy to use GUI swipes on phones.

There's still a long, long way to go. Decentralized BTC value (and infrastructure) has to continue to increase substantially from where it is now and work through many more financial attacks like the Bcash one this past week to be robust enough for continued adoption.