Wow. Bitcoin is almost $1,500

[Yakk]

Nothing like a good market crash to help lift the moral, and pocketbooks, after.

 

[destrekor]

Vechain rising again.

I completed my final cash injection into crypto today.

It's amazing how much mere 30 days makes a difference in crypto world.

If I had spent that same money all at 30 days ago, I'd have 20,000 VEN. (Worth $140,000 if I were to cash out today)

Instead I have a fraction of that.

Anyways it's kind of a relief. All my actions have run out. No more trading or buying. Just sit and watch it go up (or down).

And cash out in few years.

Good luck sitting on the sidelines! After some active trading, I can imagine that being a continual challenge. If you truly wish to do so, I'd turn off and/or ignore all crypto-news and probably avoid this thread.

And don't beat yourself up over "missed gains." You bet/invested what you were comfortable with, and now you only have hindsight in recognizing that it continues to go up after you invested. At the time of initial investment, you probably realized it could swing either direction and you could lose money, and thus you invested what you should have been comfortable losing.

 

[Zeze]

Well said.

I will be checking out all the news still though because it's a fun time sink... so much better than non-stop Trump news.

 

[destrekor]

Well said.

I will be checking out all the news still though because it's a fun time sink... so much better than non-stop Trump news.

You know what, I was wondering why I've been feeling better - it's not just the portfolio growth, its more so that less time is devoted to reading regular news. Or, I still read the same amount of news but I finally found something that lets me completely rebound from or even entirely ignore the Trump-induced lows.

 

[destrekor]

An additional point of discussion I've been pondering:

When it comes to the true future potential of blockchains, cryptocurrencies, and tokens, I think some in this thread have not discovered the full market economics that will be the driving force behind blockchain adoption.

Many of the cryptos out there are actually what would be better identified as application tokens, as opposed to a currency. The BTCs and XMRs of the world are true currencies that can just so happen to be put to use for other data. But the real data kings are going to be the blockchains that focus on utility and application, meaning that Ethereum and the ERC20 tokens, NEM and its Mosaics, and tokens like VEN, are more centered on utility. And while those tokens can technically have zero USD par value and the network would operate just fine, it won't work that way. Retail/secondary market trading isn't necessarily a required feature of utility blockchains, but they aren't without purpose as they have a secondary but vital impact on blockchain adoption. And, IIRC, trading volume helps ensure the blockchain is continually being written to, adding TXs, confirmations, and achieving an immutable historical ledger. So they truly are speculative in nature but that doesn't make them bad. Some of the underlying blockchains will succeed, regardless of valuation because that doesn't impact the utility/capability that network offers. Many will fail because too many are attempting the same thing, some with worse technical capabilities, and many tokens trying to specialize for a specific niche when other chains and tokens will be far more adaptable and easily serve a vast majority of market niches. Those highly adaptable blockchains will be the true winners - I don't find Ethereum to be that just yet, but as they switch to Proof of Stake and introduce future changes, they may allow it to be as adaptable as it will need to be to succeed. NEM is already there, and soon to be far more approachable for development. That market is also ripe to have a few main winners/players, just as how most of the industries they serve all have at least a handful of major competitors.

 

[DaveSimmons]

That's a good point.

I expect the bulk of blockchain and coin use to be done with corporate- and nation-state tech purpose-built for their own use, not any existing ledgers or coins. Why pay others when you can create your own royalty-free? Also, an automotive supply-chain use would not have a need for anonymous distributed verification through expensive mining-style work, I think the ACM article I read said that non-anonymous proofs and/or using private keys makes that unnecessary.

Despite that, one or more of the existing projects might succeed as a pre-built, already running token for companies that are too small to create their own and who have some reason not to use the megacorp and state ones. Aside from the darkweb and libertarian extremists this might be a very small niche though -- UncleSamCoin / USLedgers backed by the US Treasury would probably be more attractive to most legit users.

 

[destrekor]

As for a credit card that can load crypto:

https://www.tenx.tech/

(that's just one, there are others)

Something to be followed should be Monaco. Many of the current entries into the crypto-loaded credit cards have actually suffered a major blow from Visa recently, as they stated they would cease working with WaveCrest, the company that TenX, and many others, turned to in offering their product or upcoming product. Monaco is actually working with Wirecard and Monaco also has better type of Visa membership. TenX announced they will be applying to become an actual banking provider that can issuer their own Visa cards but that's quite a ways off. So Monaco remains in Visa's good graces and will be launching cards soon, and there's a rumor I think that Monaco is also pursuing the banking capability so that they too can become their own issuer.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Probably up crazy on the government shutdown and lower confidence in the dollar. Gold has been on an incredible tear. I had a few ounces at $1240 and sold for $1300. Now its nearly $1345 oz on inflation fears.

Could be the same thing.

https://www.apmex.com/spotprices/gold-price

 

[Arcadio]

Probably up crazy on the government shutdown and lower confidence in the dollar. Gold has been on an incredible tear. I had a few ounces at $1240 and sold for $1300. Now its nearly $1345 oz on inflation fears.

Could be the same thing.

https://www.apmex.com/spotprices/gold-price

Good thing you got rid of it. Gold is on the way out just like cassette tapes were on their way out back in the early 90's.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Good thing you got rid of it. Gold is on the way out just like cassette tapes were on their way out back in the early 90's.

So after 3,000 years, we just abandon gold despite its beauty, scarcity and store of value when everything else goes tits up? Hmmmm.....

If you are interested in selling very, very cheap, I'll buy.

 

[Zeze]

So after 3,000 years, we just abandon gold despite its beauty, scarcity and store of value when everything else goes tits up? Hmmmm.....

If you are interested in selling very, very cheap, I'll buy.

I thought today's dollar wasn't even backed by gold.

It's backed by nothing... just like *gasp* crypto.

 

[bbhaag]

I thought today's dollar wasn't even backed by gold.

It's backed by nothing... just like *gasp* crypto.

Well that is not exactly true. While the USD is no longer backed by gold is it backed by the Boomer generations ability to wrack up unfathomable amounts of debt and then proceed to slowly pay it off over the course many generations to come.
That's as good as gold right?

 

[OverVolt]

..

 

[destrekor]

I have an interesting idea that Cyptocurrencies are a store of energy, just like gold.

By constantly using energy cracking crypto keys which can be stored & traded, its not unlike using fossil fuels to mine gold, which has relatively few uses compared to how much energy was invested into mining it.

You're basically taking a speculative gamble in the respective domain of energy, oil or computing power. Its really not unlike the California Gold rush. The people who get the richest will likely be the equipment suppliers, AKA the people who are making specialized mining hardware. It was always this way and I never got involved. Currently this is speculation. Ripple is basically fools gold.

The problem I see is emergent technologies, like quantum computing, or some other computer tech 25 years down the road that makes all the computation power related to cyrptocurrencies in 2017 a total joke. Its not going to be a store of value (ie it took energy to produce) 5,000 years from now like gold can be. So what about 100? or 50? 25? Technology moves fast.

Don't get me wrong I think its a great speculative vehicle, like a penny stock. Just don't think its some kind of revolutionary tech in its current permutation.

That comparison is only accurate if focusing on cryptos with a Proof of Work algo, which is what drives the computationally heavy work required to "mine" cryptocurrency that follows that approach. Though I don't disagree, with the cryptos that depend on energy consumption for computation, they derive a par value from the cost of resources. If they aren't based on PoW, then their par value is derived from whatever makes sense at that time, usually pure market speculation.

 

[OverVolt]

..

 

[OverVolt]

That comparison is only accurate if focusing on cryptos with a Proof of Work algo, which is what drives the computationally heavy work required to "mine" cryptocurrency that follows that approach. Though I don't disagree, with the cryptos that depend on energy consumption for computation, they derive a par value from the cost of resources. If they aren't based on PoW, then their par value is derived from whatever makes sense at that time, usually pure market speculation.

Eh I don't feel like rambling... but I could see Proof of Work coins holding their value for a decade or more because you aren't going to get as much computer hardware as motivated as it is right now to crunch an ultimately meaningless math problem. Even if traded off exchange. After about a decade I think hardware advances will nullify the rarity.

Say you could crack the same number of bitcoins as part of a bitcoin2 network in 1 year instead of 9 years a decade from now, or 25 years from now, or whatever. Makes it less a store of value.

All that matters ATM is speculation, and which tech will survive the long haul.

 

[FelixDeCat]

I thought today's dollar wasn't even backed by gold.

It's backed by nothing... just like *gasp* crypto.

Neither I, nor he, said the dollar was backed by gold. Where did you get this crazy idea?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Something to be followed should be Monaco. Many of the current entries into the crypto-loaded credit cards have actually suffered a major blow from Visa recently, as they stated they would cease working with WaveCrest, the company that TenX, and many others, turned to in offering their product or upcoming product. Monaco is actually working with Wirecard and Monaco also has better type of Visa membership. TenX announced they will be applying to become an actual banking provider that can issuer their own Visa cards but that's quite a ways off. So Monaco remains in Visa's good graces and will be launching cards soon, and there's a rumor I think that Monaco is also pursuing the banking capability so that they too can become their own issuer.

The WaveCrest situation is a shame. Visa may be trying to take out competition. It's rather obvious that they (Visa) are interested in utilizing blockchain for their own purposes. From Visa's perspective, they have to get rid of the early adopters of blockchain-based payment solutions to make sure that they (Visa) are not rendered obsolete.

I could see a system like OmiseGo wiping out all the big CC companies if the CC companies don't fight back.

 

[Zeze]

My biggest concern is that we think these bank giants are idiots.

They have fackton of money, resources, and human capital to develop their own blockchain and partnerships.

Meager crypto startups are at a severe disadvantage and pales in comparison.

Am I off the mark?

Look at this old news about USC, banks own blockchain with tons of old boy partnerships:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/majo...t-for-blockchain-based-cryptocurrency-banking

 

[Crono]

My biggest concern is that we think these bank giants are idiots.

They have fackton of money, resources, and human capital to develop their own blockchain and partnerships.

Meager crypto startups are at a severe disadvantage and pales in comparison.

Am I off the mark?

Look at this old news about USC, banks own blockchain with tons of old boy partnerships:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/majo...t-for-blockchain-based-cryptocurrency-banking

They definitely are. See Quorum, Vulcan, and a couple other initiatives I'm sure I'm forgetting. Mostly banks seem to be testing things internally and waiting for regulations to make things clearer before proceeding. It's funny how many people bought into Ripple thinking the situation is settled (no pun intended), but the big boys are just biding their time at this point. All the FinTech people were getting into blockchain tech early, just after bitcoin mining first took off.

 

[Zeze]

https://mobile.twitter.com/vechainofficial/status/955111526746136576

When I doubt I take comfort in Jim Breyer.

Another big news

 

[Zeze]

https://mobile.twitter.com/vechainofficial/status/955111526746136576

When I doubt, I take comfort in Jim Breyer.

Another good news just now.


Here he is standing next to Chinese prez. And casual Tim Cook (apple ceo) in the shot as well as Zuckerberg.

 

[destrekor]

nvm
OverVolt deleted his comment, I'll delete this one. It was a comment I typed last night but forgot to submit.

 

[DaveSimmons]

My biggest concern is that we think these bank giants are idiots.

They have fackton of money, resources, and human capital to develop their own blockchain and partnerships.

Meager crypto startups are at a severe disadvantage and pales in comparison.

Am I off the mark?

Look at this old news about USC, banks own blockchain with tons of old boy partnerships:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/majo...t-for-blockchain-based-cryptocurrency-banking

Exactly. All of the key ideas packaged together for Bitcoin already existed as published research, so no one controls the tech or collects royalties on it. There probably are already some patents being filed, but likely for niche twists where others can avoid infringing them.

So you have the wild west with the noble but weak coin farmers, then the Railroad and the Evil Ranchers and the US Army show up. Without an undead Clint Eastwood to ride into town, impose frontier justice and save the farms.

 

[Red Storm]

VEN needs to chill out and stop rising so I can buy more later this week.