WOW -- A good deal of Respect for TOM'S is now GONE -- THG muscles out the competition at MML2 !!

thatsright

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
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Well after reading THG review of the ABIT IC7-G, I was really surprised at such a shoddy, rushed review of a board that is great. I was surprised at the rushed review and ranking they gave it. It truly is the best Canterwood board out now, (please don't start flaming me) and this was confirmed for the most part by the AT review. Anyway, I read THG daily as they usually have pretty good articles on most PC News/Hardware, etc. I read it more often as AnandTech is updated a lot less frequently than Tom's.

This weekend I read with great interest THG articles about the MML2 even in Kentucky. They wax and wane about the upcoming AMD 64 CPU, and other event stuff. Looks like a lot of fun. So I was pretty stunned at the 'back door' deal that THG has imposed on the event as an official event sponsor. They barred all media access to the event by other online sites. Basically THG is banning all other sites in a rush to get an 'exclusive' online content.

For such an event where the upcoming AMD64 CPU is being demo'ed, I was surprised that AMD & the event organizer would let this fly. Why limit possible good PR for your NextGen CPU to just one on-line site? Doesn't make to much sense to me. Yet I was pretty surprised that THG would go to such extreme lengths. Now this takes my respect for THG down several notches, and reading most their articles will now be taken with suspect.


Article about THG News Blackout @ MML2
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
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Well, while I don't really agree with what they tried to do, don't TV news stations do this? - "Next, EXCLUSIVE COVERAGE of whatever NFL game is being played!" or something like that.
 

Harabecw

Senior member
Apr 28, 2003
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Interesting. I'm sure if AMD knew about this earlier they would have shouted, very loudly. Also interesting is that, as he says, "the boss" (I assume thomas) didn't know about what his rep was doing.
 

joeryu

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2000
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well it looks like THG is actually going to sue Ryan Shrout from AMDMB for libel.
check out the front page of HardOCP
 

PrinceXizor

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Oct 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: Jeff7
Well, while I don't really agree with what they tried to do, don't TV news stations do this? - "Next, EXCLUSIVE COVERAGE of whatever NFL game is being played!" or something like that.

Not quite the same thing. While (let's use FOX as our example), may have exclusive rights to broadcast the video for the NFL (which by the way, they PAY A LOT OF MONEY FOR), the other major networks (and anyone with an official press pass afaik) still has access to the event.

The key things here are as follows:

1. FOX pays beacoup dollars for this privilege.
2. This "privilege" is known well in advance and what is "privileged" and what is "non-privileged" is spelled out and well-known by all parties.
3. General press access is NOT prohibited (afaik).

Also, the fact that high muck-a-mucks in both companies were unaware smacks of a lack of profesionalism involved.

My $.02

P-X
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
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Wow...what a link! A seriously major brouhaha is developing....let's see we have HardOCP vs. THG....a couple of major players in the hardware review industry. This could be VERY interesting.

P-X
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
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After re-reading Ryan's article. He lists quite a lot of phone contacts and such and a major player who was concerned (i.e. Nvidia) that would be REALLY stupid to include if you were stretching the truth. Of course, we've merely heard two sides of the story (though HardOCP seemed to indicate that they ran into the same problem and decided to let the issue die w/o a fracas, until Ryan's article).

It will be interesting to see what happens here. I'm reserving judgement until I see some official comments from AMD/Nvidia/THG which I'm sure will be coming soon.

P-X
 

Dug

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2000
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Unbelievable. Let's see, was anyone else allowed pictures and the ability to publish articles?

If not, then I would say Ryan has done nothing wrong by reporting his experience.

 

Mday

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
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i deleted the link to tomshardware from my favorites.

i've been trying to find a link to amd's public relations ppl for a while.
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
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The most disturbing thing is THG's response to the allegations. They should have either 1. Made no comment at all or 2. Itemized Ryan's arguments and disupted them with letters from AMD and/or proof they didn't do what they said or 3. Made a general comment like, we are looking into Ryan's allegations, though we feel we have done nothing wrong, we take such allegations seriously and will present our findings at a future date.

Nope...let's break out ye' old mud slinger and call people amatuer's, wannabes and liars. I didn't see a shred of proof presented in that Inqwell article, just a bunch of name calling and mud-slinging. Yep, that proves your point to me every time
rolleye.gif


P-X
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
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Ok, let's not overreact here. You have ONE person's perspective of what happened here.

If you look around, you'll see that it's very possible that it's not as cut and dry as it first seems.

For instance, Sudhian Media had no problems with the MML.
I have no direct knowledge of how any other media company at the event (including Ryan from AMDMB) was treated and therefore am unwilling to speculate on the basis of what is entirely second-hand information as far as it relates to me. What I will say, however, is that I was well-treated and encountered none of the problems Ryan did. I was never told I couldn't participate, never told I'd be denied access to vendors, and never told I couldn't publish on the MML. I was able to take pictures of Opteron and talk to the AMD staff demonstrating the system (though they couldn't tell us very much for the usual reasons) and you'll see those pictures later today.
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
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Indeed wingz, I'm fully aware I have one side of the story (semi-collaborated by Kyle).

But, I really don't like Omid's e-mail (full of self-adulation and slanderous speech of his own).

Presuming that Ryan made it all up (which I'm sorry, I find HIGHLY unlikely), the reason you HAVE lawyers is so you don't have upper level management writing scathing letters to the inqwell.

In addition, Kyle seemed to hint at that most of the "problems" had been handled after Ryan's public posting...that was until Omid's e-mail to the Inq and subsequent lawsuit.

That's an awful lot of bluster.

As I said, I'm reserving judgement until more information is available.

Edit One: Quote from HardOCP from Kyle

Edit Two: Added additional quote from Kyle

I had made my mind up to keep my yapper shut on this topic as some of the issues were worked out after Ryan went public with the situation, then I read this mail from Omid Rahmat of THG at the InqWell.

It seems as though that is exactly what they intend to do as Omid called Ryan Shrout this morning around 11:45AM CST and verbalized that Tom's Guide Publishing would be having their lawyers send Ryan a letter explaining that they would be suing them for libel. Ryan, being a "poor college student" working on his EE degree does not have the funds needed to defend an action of this sort, it is our opinion that this action is to force Ryan's hand and make him take down his page that chronicles the events.

I have committed to Ryan that I will personally help him with funding his legal council so he will not have to fold with the almighty dollar being the deciding factor. We have also put him in direct contact with our attorney we keep on retainer that specializes in Intellectual Property matters. I think Ryan is telling the truth and should not be stifled.

The fact of the matter is that Omid was not present at the event and does not know what happened first hand. I would guess that Omid might be getting his information from parties that are now concerned with keeping their jobs. Also worth mentioning is that Ryan has some recorded audio of THG and AMD representatives saying some very interesting things to him that would be terribly embarrassing, if not downright damaging, should they be released publicly.

P-X
 

bcterps

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Aug 31, 2000
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Originally posted by: Wingznut
Ok, let's not overreact here. You have ONE person's perspective of what happened here. If you look around, you'll see that it's very possible that it's not as cut and dry as it first seems. For instance, Sudhian Media had no problems with the MML.
I have no direct knowledge of how any other media company at the event (including Ryan from AMDMB) was treated and therefore am unwilling to speculate on the basis of what is entirely second-hand information as far as it relates to me. What I will say, however, is that I was well-treated and encountered none of the problems Ryan did. I was never told I couldn't participate, never told I'd be denied access to vendors, and never told I couldn't publish on the MML. I was able to take pictures of Opteron and talk to the AMD staff demonstrating the system (though they couldn't tell us very much for the usual reasons) and you'll see those pictures later today.

There are two issues here though, one is Ryan's account of what happened at MML2, and the other is THG's threat of a lawsuit. While there may be issues to dispute regarding Ryan's experiences, THG's response is childish, immature, but not at all surprising.
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
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I've read the article again, and I don't even understand it. Correct me where I am mistaken.

Why can't Ryan go to the MML? Because (he claims) THG says he cannot, even though the vendors and organizers say there is no such "blackout"?

Isn't this the same as: My friend Bob throwing a party and inviting 50 people. One of the invitees, Frank, says that I cannot go. I talk to Bob and many others who were invited and they all say that they don't know what Frank is talking about. And then I go get all upset and start ranting and raving.

So far, it sounds like Ryan is the only one who got wind of said "media blackout".


If my above understanding is accurate, then my take is: Get over it, quit whining, and go do your job.
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
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Originally posted by: benchiu
Originally posted by: Wingznut
Ok, let's not overreact here. You have ONE person's perspective of what happened here. If you look around, you'll see that it's very possible that it's not as cut and dry as it first seems. For instance, Sudhian Media had no problems with the MML.
I have no direct knowledge of how any other media company at the event (including Ryan from AMDMB) was treated and therefore am unwilling to speculate on the basis of what is entirely second-hand information as far as it relates to me. What I will say, however, is that I was well-treated and encountered none of the problems Ryan did. I was never told I couldn't participate, never told I'd be denied access to vendors, and never told I couldn't publish on the MML. I was able to take pictures of Opteron and talk to the AMD staff demonstrating the system (though they couldn't tell us very much for the usual reasons) and you'll see those pictures later today.

There are two issues here though, one is Ryan's account of what happened at MML2, and the other is THG's threat of a lawsuit. While there may be issues to dispute regarding Ryan's experiences, THG's response is childish, immature, but not at all surprising.
So, if I started publishing articles about how you are mistreating people, and you weren't mistreating people, you'd just ignore it and allow me to slandar your reputation?

I wouldn't stand for it, for a moment. Period.

 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
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I don't have problems with a law-suit per se, aside for the fact, that I know full well (as someone working on getting a start-up off the ground) that in spite of an NDA, someone will willfully copy a patented idea on the premise that you don't have the funds to fight the legal battle necessary to win. However, if THG thinks they are being impuned, so be it, a lawsuit is the proper response.

However, my major beef is with Omid's letter to the Inq. Totally unecessary and sinking to the same level they are accusing Ryan of.

Plus Kyle's backing intrigues me. Of course, there probably is no love lost b/n Kyle and Tom either.

Let's see where this goes now that Kyle is involved.

P-X
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
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So, if you believe that Omid has sunk "to the same level" that Ryan has, then you are putting both THG and AMDmb on the same level, and it would only reason that they would have the same amount of respect from you.

I'm not saying that I love THG. I rarely even visit the site. There are so many times when something is written on one site, by one opinion, and another party gets ripped for it. There is a mob mentality on message boards, that easily gets out of control.
 

Vonkhan

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2003
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The process of THG losing my respect began with their article "9700Pro : Pretender to the throne"
rolleye.gif
 
Jan 31, 2002
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Originally posted by: Vonkhan
The process of THG losing my respect began with their article "9700Pro : Pretender to the throne"
rolleye.gif

What, you missed out on the big "Pentium 4 3.6GHz" article they had? :p

- M4H
 

PrinceXizor

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2002
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I am not judging anyone, either pronouncing THG guilty, nor pronouncing Ryan innocent.

Omid's letter to the inqwell in any context for any reason is pure mud-slinging. I do NOT see any mud-slinging in Ryan's article. Now if his article is pure fabrication, then the whole thing is one big mud-pie. Ryan's letter seems fairly professional (of course this is imho).

Again, I repeat, I am not pronouncing THG guilty, nor pronouncing Ryan innocent. That letter to the inqwell just struck a dissonant chord with me.

P-X
 

bcterps

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Aug 31, 2000
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Originally posted by: Wingznut
So, if you believe that Omid has sunk "to the same level" that Ryan has, then you are putting both THG and AMDmb on the same level, and it would only reason that they would have the same amount of respect from you. I'm not saying that I love THG. I rarely even visit the site. There are so many times when something is written on one site, by one opinion, and another party gets ripped for it. There is a mob mentality on message boards, that easily gets out of control.

I think most people seem to fall on Ryan's side because it looks like he was just venting because of the frustrations that he experienced, whereas THG seems to be trying to use scare tactics to quell the bad press against it. There are certainly valid issues on both sides, but there are a lot of THG haters out there, just like there are a lot of Kyle haters, etc.

I agree the facts are sketchy at best. In this day and age most companies won't take the "high road" by letting the facts play out for themselves. Instead they threaten to sue each other out of existance, and are oftentimes successful at it.

One just has to take everything with a grain of salt, recognizing that no matter how hard sites try to be unbiased, that is nearly impossible. There is so much that is unknown about what happened in this situation.
 

bocamojo

Senior member
Aug 24, 2001
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I read the article and did not see anything that would indicate libel. This person merely related his individual experience, which is, as far as I'm concerned, his God given right, under the U.S. Constitution. In the interest of knowledge, I looked up the word libel in the dictionary. These are some of what I found:

"A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation. "

"To defame, or expose to public hatred, contempt, or ridicule, by a writing, picture, sign, etc.; to lampoon."

"Any defamatory writing; a lampoon; a satire."

"(Law) A malicious publication expressed either in print or in writing, or by pictures, effigies, or other signs, tending to expose another to public hatred, contempt, or ridicule. Such publication is indictable at common law."

"Note: The term, in a more extended sense, includes the publication of such writings, pictures, and the like, as are of a blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene character. These also are indictable at common law."

"(Law) The crime of issuing a malicious defamatory publication."

"n : a tort consisting of false and malicious publication printed for the purpose of defaming a living person v : make slanderous statements against..."

I'm no lawyer, but I would say that the threat of a lawsuit is more likely a scare tactic than an actual move to defend the character and reputation of THG... but that's just my humble opinion. Hopefully, I don't get sued for it...
 

Lynx516

Senior member
Apr 20, 2003
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My respect went when they used the well known benchmark of how long it takes to PLAY !!! a DVD. No surprices then when they all got the same time