Would you say that humans are mean-spirited, compared to other animals?

[gopunk]

humans will torture other living things, including other humans, and derive pleasure from it. i don't think very many animals do this. cats maybe, but they are evil. i think this is because humans have recreational needs (as opposed to a cow, that just sits there... then again, maybe that is entertainment for it), and in the absence of a developed moral sense, tormenting other things is entertainment enough.

 

[XMan]

You're certainly neffalicious tonight. Have you been reading Sartre again?

 

[glenn1]

<< i think this is because humans have recreational needs (as opposed to a cow, that just sits there), and in the absence of a developed moral sense, tormenting other things is entertainment enough. >>



You're looking at only the bad side of humanity. Sure we do evil things, but we do good things as well. When was the last time you heard about a cow sacrificing it's life for a fellow heiffer?

 

[gopunk]

<< You're certainly neffalicious tonight. Have you been reading Sartre again? >>



nope... i dunno, i just think of this stuff sometimes.

 

[apoppin]

Is this part of a series?



and yes.

 

[gopunk]

<<

<< i think this is because humans have recreational needs (as opposed to a cow, that just sits there), and in the absence of a developed moral sense, tormenting other things is entertainment enough. >>



You're looking at only the bad side of humanity. Sure we do evil things, but we do good things as well. When was the last time you heard about a cow sacrificing it's life for a fellow heiffer? >>



well, there are many animals that will go to the aid of a fellow animal. and if it is someone dear, like an offspring, some would sacrifice themselves.

yes, i agree, humans have the capacity to be wonderful people. but i think that the more rudimentary you get, the less educated, and so on... humans tend to be crueler and crueler, than most other animals. a lot of people treat animals inhumanely, like they will kick dogs or even set small animals on fire. i understand, that this is because people do not value other life as "life" exactly, they can't really put themselves in the shoes of the other party. but i find it curious that we have this behavior to begin with. i don't think many other animals will kill other animals for sport.

 

[spanky]

yes... humans are evil. we all need spankings... and who better to dish 'em out? ok... lets start with the women. line up ladies... ppl named "spears" go first.

 

[RGN]

<< yes... humans are evil. we all need spankings... and who better to dish 'em out? ok... lets start with the women. line up ladies... ppl named "spears" go first. >>




yup.


oh, and I'm not an animal.

 

[Jfur]

we have more degrees of freedom, for good or ill

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

We aren't mean-spirited, we are just capable of more evil than other animals. It comes with being sentient and having free will. But so does the ability for doing acts of good. Your conscience is supposed to keep you on the good side of things. But I think some people are just born without one. A birth defect of the soul if you will.

 

[gopunk]

Your conscience is supposed to keep you on the good side of things. But I think some people are just born without one. A birth defect of the soul if you will.

i don't think people are born with a conscience. looking around, how people treat others seems to be something that depends on the environment they were raised in. for example, it is not uncommon for people in china or something to treat animals as if they didn't even have feelings. i find it unlikely that they all just happened to have this birth defect of the soul. i think it's *natural* for people to be like that, and that recognizing that behavior as wrong, mainly comes from thought and observation.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Life demands equilibrium. Perhaps you are focusing too much on the negative and not seeing all the good there is. It is easy to become deceived by the veil of evil into believeing that there is only evil in mankind. Quit reading the newspapers and magazines for a few weeks and go hang out with different friends and acquaintences. Life is reallly pretty darned good.

I am making an assumption that you are not living under a rock in Mogadishu, of course.

 

[gopunk]

Perhaps you are focusing too much on the negative and not seeing all the good there is. It is easy to become deceived by the veil of evil into believeing that there is only evil in mankind.

no, i don't think there is only evil in mankind... i am just constantly amazed at our capacity to be mean. if you want a good example of this, go to an elementary school. there's always some kid that everybody picks on. it's all fun and games (if you're not that kid) when you're young and in elementary school, but when you get out, you realize what a prick you were.

i see the good side of people all the time, just like i see the bad side. but there's not much to say about the good side, other than "whoohoo".

 

[bizmark]

<< you want a good example of this, go to an elementary school. there's always some kid that everybody picks on. it's all fun and games (if you're not that kid) when you're young and in elementary school, but when you get out, you realize what a prick you were. >>



but as we know, the kids being mean to the other kid are all doing it because they get something out of it, whether it's increased self-esteem or whatever. So it's almost like the eating other life in order to live thing -- to gain your health, you must hurt someone/something else. In this case, it's emotions and not life-or-death.

I seriously think that what differentiates us from the lower animals in this regard, is our ability to think about our actions and make moral judgments about them. Other animals do things that are just as cruel (or would if they were mentally/physically able), but they wouldn't think about it afterwards and label it cruel.

Also, in your original statement, you said "and derive pleasure from it". I think that this speaks to humans' ability to derive pleasure from many things. Think about a dog. What gives it pleasure? Food. Having its belly rubbed. Hmmm, maybe a few other things, like if it likes to play fetch or something. But humans have an inordinate capacity to derive pleasure from just about anything. I think that this ties in somewhat with what you said was the human need for recreation.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

<< Your conscience is supposed to keep you on the good side of things. But I think some people are just born without one. A birth defect of the soul if you will.

i don't think people are born with a conscience. looking around, how people treat others seems to be something that depends on the environment they were raised in. for example, it is not uncommon for people in china or something to treat animals as if they didn't even have feelings. i find it unlikely that they all just happened to have this birth defect of the soul. i think it's *natural* for people to be like that, and that recognizing that behavior as wrong, mainly comes from thought and observation. >>



How about it's not natural to be like that, but external influences, we'll call it 'the world,' can warp your sense of conscience to make these things seem natural and acceptable? And how did the world get that way? Too many people without consciences running things, and too many people, with or without consciences, conforming to their example. Nice people tend attain very little power in this world.

But I just took some drugs so I might just be raving like a loon right now.

 

[Kilgor]

A lot of animals like playing with their prey before they kill it. Haven?t you ever seen killer whales tossing seals around before they eat them? My cat used to pull one leg off crickets and watch them hop around. How can animals be mean that?s a human concept, there are mean animals but they don?t know their mean we just call them mean. They don?t care if we call them mean all they care about is how full their belly is.

 

[wQuay]

<< for example, it is not uncommon for people in china or something to treat animals as if they didn't even have feelings. >>



Animals have little to do with morals and principles of right and wrong. Bad example. And while I agree about conscience being more custom than an innate quality, you then have to ask what started the custom.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

<< Animals have little to do with morals and principles of right and wrong. >>



BS. Anything that is living and can feel pleasure and pain has to do with morality and right and wrong.

 

[Kilgor]

<< BS. Anything that is living and can feel pleasure and pain has to do with morality and right and wrong. >>



Right and wrong are human concepts. You don?t have to think to know what pleasure is because it?s a feeling not a belief.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I meant how it is applied. Torturing an animal isn't disqualified from being judged right or wrong just because the animal has no concept of it.

 

[Piano Man]

Actually I think humans in a natural state are very peaceful. Its only when you put propaganda, stereotypes, censorship, and other forms of lies into the mix that you get people acting out against each other. As for your question, I would say no.

 

[bizmark]

<< I meant how it is applied. Torturing an animal isn't disqualified from being judged right or wrong just because the animal has no concept of it. >>



right, but can the animal judge it as right or wrong?

To an animal (and thus to humans as well at some level), I think that the only real right and wrong is survival, and the survival of offspring and other loved ones. I know that most animals will sacrifice themselves to protect their offspring, and some domesticated animals would even do so for human companions.