Atreus21
Lifer
- Aug 21, 2007
- 12,007
- 572
- 126
The last 100 posts have absolutely nothing to do with the OP.
Ever think the reason Americans cant solve problems is they're hella stupid?
Blame pmv. The guns thing was a complete red herring.
The last 100 posts have absolutely nothing to do with the OP.
Ever think the reason Americans cant solve problems is they're hella stupid?
1) Lol another incompetent making a medium post. Not only does he use the same faulty guns per capita measure instead of % gun ownership he tries to prove his point using excel, and thinks that he should get an r^2 of 0.7 using a single IV for his ‘model’. Whoever wrote that post is an idiot.
2) you clearly didn’t read the guy’s post because he stated gun ownership leads to increased suicide numbers.
3) he also later admits that gun ownership is associated with higher homicide rates in high quality research but then tries to hand wave it away by saying other things are correlated more strongly.
Now let’s look at some actual empirical research on how fun ownership relates to homicide.
Still using that per capita measure, which is nonsense.
Anyways I just thought it was funny to point out that you owned yourself with the dumb medium lost you linked.
First off medium.com is a left leaning site, not a right wing site. This is according to mediabias.com even. You still use the same logic fallacy of attacking the messenger when you can't attack the message. The article on medium is very thorough at debunking your crap.
If you don't like that, then how about rand.org. This site goes through every study ever conducted on this issue to date.
The Relationship Between Firearm Availability and Suicide
Empirical research on the causal effects of firearm availability on the risk of suicide is consistent with the claim that firearms increase suicide risk, but this research cannot yet rule out some other explanations for observed associations between guns and suicide. There are, however...www.rand.org
Basically any study that finds a correlation is a weak correlation between 0.5% and 0.9%. Most of those studies are done using high crime poverty urban areas. You know, the kind where people need to buy guns to protect themselves. Those same studies find that an increase on the black population increases gun deaths suicides and non suicides as well at a higher correlation rate of almost 6%. But as the author states, making the argument that black people are at fault is stupid as it should be. That's why it's a correlation and not a causation. In fact, almost everything has a higher correlation rate than gun ownership does when looking at possible links to increased suicide rates. However, the ONLY causation is mental health. Period. I am not talking depression either as those with long lasting depression actually don't attempt suicide that much. It is a spur of the moment thing where some drastic to cause despair happens to make people attempt suicide. You not liking per capita comparison though is your own stupidity. Vast majority of studies show zero link between gun ownership and suicide rates as a whole when looking at macrocosms and not microcosms. Microcosms studies is all the study links you have provided do. Since the vast majority of posters here are rabid anti-gun grabbers, the vast majority will not have a clue what I'm talking about and will only side with you out of sheer partisanship.
Competent research looks at the percentage of the population that owns guns, yes, but the clown from your Medium post did not and neither have you, both using total number of guns or guns per 100k. Do you need me to quote your own words back at you again?Lastly, per capita is how every damn study is done. These studies count individual gun owners, not a gun owner that owns multiple guns as more gun owners. None of them do that. You wanting to call the studies I use to disprove your nonsense as nonsense shows how little intelligence you have on this issue still. I am not typing this to convince you though. You've proven over the years that you lack the intelligence to comprehend anything outside your echo chamber. This is for the reader that might wander in here with a brain and realize how full of shit you are.
Guns per capita is an irrelevant measure as if my neighbor owns one gun or one hundred guns doesn’t matter. It’s if they own one or not. The guy who wrote that non-peer reviewed opinion article made a basic analytic error that he should be embarrassed about. He then compounded this error by comparing the US to other countries and other cultures, introducing an additional confounding variable that he made no attempt to control for.
Actually competent research analyzes risk factors for suicide and finds that all else being equal, owning a gun makes it more likely you will die by suicide. This is a highly robust finding accepted by all major medical organizations in the country.
If a gun was obtained legally is irrelevant as to whether or not guns are a risk factor for suicide.
These ‘bans’ affected only a small percentage of the guns in circulation in the country and once again, aggregate numbers of guns are not meaningful.
This is bizarre and irrational logic. Bridges are not removed because their utility exceeds their costs. Guns do not have utility that exceeds their costs. Regardless, I was simply speaking to the well established statistical relationship between gun ownership and risk of completed suicide.
Firearm Ownership and Suicide Rates Among US Men and Women, 1981–2013
Objectives. To examine the relationship between state-level firearm ownership rates and gender-specific, age-adjusted firearm and total suicide rates across all 50 US states from 1981 to 2013.Methods. We used panel data for all 50 states that included ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I'm kinda surprised you guys still bother replying seriously to posters like that. You're not gonna change their minds, it's just banging your heads against a brick wall IMO.
*snip*
Plus considering how much they run to the mods to cry.
Uhmm, I listed several things as to why the message was wrong. For someone who so consistently complains that others are bad at reading comprehension it’s pretty funny that you missed that.
Medium is a site that anyone can contribute to and it has few editorial controls. It is not peer reviewed research.
Lol, another link you clearly did not bother to read as it supports my position, not yours. Nice self ownage.
RAND is saying that the evidence supports a link between gun ownership and suicide. Its only criticism is that all possible confounds have not been eliminated but that is of course due to the restrictions on gun data collection that the gun nuts themselves have put in place, precisely so that research into the effects of gun ownership is impeded. It recommends those restrictions be removed.
Saying that other things affect suicide risk more than gun ownership is irrelevant. The question is if gun ownership affects suicide risk, which it does.
Thank you for implicitly surrendering on this though. You originally stated gun ownership had no effect on suicide rates, now you have retreated to arguing that other things affect those rates more. I know you aren’t capable of admitting when you’re wrong so this is about as close as we can expect.
Competent research looks at the percentage of the population that owns guns, yes, but the clown from your Medium post did not and neither have you, both using total number of guns or guns per 100k. Do you need me to quote your own words back at you again?
Finally, it’s pretty funny that the guy who is always whining about personal attacks repeatedly called me stupid here. Should you be reporting yourself?
Measure of Gun Prevalence | Increase in Firearm Suicide | Increase in Total Suicide |
---|---|---|
Gun ownership (from the BRFSS) | 1.7 percent | 0.5 percent (not significant) |
Gun-related Google searches | 1.3 percent | 0.7 percent |
FS/S | 3.1 percent | 0.9 percent |
Composite index (FS/S, rate of background checks for gun purchases, rate of unintentional death by firearm) | 2.3 percent | 0.8 percent |
Bullshit. Do we call the N1H1 virus Swine Flu virus or American/Kansas Flu virus? It originated in Kansas.
BTW....the Spanish Flu also originated in......Kansas.
The reason it's called the Spanish Flu is simply because both the U.S. and most of Europe, which were involved in WWI, essentially put a muzzle on reporting of the flu and its deaths. The unbiased, unwashed information the world got on the Spanish Flu came from Spanish newspapers....Spain was a neutral in WWI and they were almost the sole place to obtain facts about the flu, hence became known as the Spanish Flu, despite it originating in the U.S.
You are clearly a person that doesn't read. It shows the studies that display links, and their crapped up way they reached those conclusions, but even with those conclusions the most correlation value that could be drawn was 0.9% and literally EVERYTHING ELSE has a higher correlation value. The fact is you are completely intellectually dishonest here to not even read the entire article is your own stupidity.
Quasi-Experimental Results
In the earliest of the four studies in our review, Miller et al. (2006) used data from the GSS on firearm prevalence in census regions over time. Using generalized estimating equations with region-level fixed effects, the authors concluded that a regional reduction in firearms of 10 percent would result in an estimated 4.2-percent reduction in firearm suicides, 2.5-percent reduction in total suicides, and no change in nonfirearm suicides.
Briggs and Tabarrok (2014) used four measures of gun prevalence over time: state-level ownership from the BRFSS in 2001, 2002, and 2004; state-level estimates of searches for gun-related terms on Google from 2004 to 2009; FS/S from 2000 to 2009; and a composite index comprising FS/S, the rate of background checks for gun purchases, and the rate of unintentional death by firearm for 2000 to 2009. In ordinary-least-squares models with time and regional (not state) fixed effects, along with other regional covariate adjustments, all four measures of gun prevalence showed that a 1-percent increase in the prevalence of individuals having firearms in their households in a state is associated with a positive and statistically significant increase in firearm suicides (between 1.3 and 3.1 percent), and three of the four measures found positive and statistically significant increases in total suicides (between 0.7 and 0.9 percent) (see the table below). The effect on total suicide was not significant at p < 0.05 for the direct measure of gun ownership from the BRFSS.
Estimated Effects of a 1-Percent Increase in Firearm Prevalence on Firearm and Total Suicides
Measure of Gun Prevalence Increase in Firearm Suicide Increase in Total Suicide Gun ownership (from the BRFSS) 1.7 percent 0.5 percent (not significant) Gun-related Google searches 1.3 percent 0.7 percent FS/S 3.1 percent 0.9 percent Composite index (FS/S, rate of background checks for gun purchases, rate of unintentional death by firearm) 2.3 percent 0.8 percent
These studies were targeted studies and the studies widely cited for showing a link between firearm ownership and suicides. But they are are NOT statistically significant. As they are targeted studies to high urban areas in the US or had some other horrible uncontrolled factor for how they were conducted.
- Firearms are found to be very strongly related to firearm suicides, as expected.
- Firearms are also found to be strongly related to overall suicides, despite evidence for substantial substitution in method of suicide.
If you scroll down to the bottom that page you'll read the big word:
Conclusions
NRC (2004) concluded that the causal relationship between household gun ownership and suicide is unclear. Since that 2004 report, evidence from U.S.-based studies has substantiated associations that existed then—namely, that
Although the empirical research is ambiguous, which suggests that there is more to learn before we can conclude with confidence that gun prevalence has a causal effect of increasing suicide rates .
- people who die by suicide are more likely than matched controls to live in a house known by informants to contain a gun
- living in a house known by informants to have a gun stored unsafely is associated with higher risk of firearm suicide than living in a house with a safely secured gun, but unsafe storage has no association with nonfirearm suicide
- changes in firearm prevalence in a region are associated with changes in suicide prevalence in the region.
Stronger study designs may be available to more persuasively establish the causal effects of gun availability or gun prevalence on suicide risk. However, many such study designs are currently hampered by poor information on the prevalence of gun ownership and the consequent reliance on proxy measures of availability and prevalence. For this reason, we recommend that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention or another federal agency resume routine collection of voluntarily provided survey data on gun ownership and use.
Not reading the damn conclusion of the whole break down of the various studies on that page, and all the others I posted is your fucking logic fallacy.
These observations are all consistent with the conclusion that gun availability increases the risk of suicide. Indeed, there appears to be a consensus among most experts in the public health community that these observed associations, in combination with the results of natural experiments like those in Switzerland and Israel (Reisch et al., 2013; Lubin et al., 2010), provide strong evidence that gun availability has a causal effect on suicide rates.
Despite this mounting evidence, quasi-experimental studies providing strong evidence for an effect of gun prevalence on suicide risk have not yet been conducted. Therefore, those who doubt the causal effect can view the observed associations between gun prevalence and suicide rates over time or across regions as indicating that the kinds of people who might consider suicide at some future time may be more likely to purchase a gun (which is a plausible interpretation of, for instance, findings in Wintemute et al., 1999) or that informants in case-control studies may be biased toward describing unsafe storage practices in cases where firearms were used in suicides or may be more likely to incorrectly deny gun availability for control cases in which no firearm injuries occurred.
Stronger study designs may be available to more persuasively establish the causal effects of gun availability or gun prevalence on suicide risk. However, many such study designs are currently hampered by poor information on the prevalence of gun ownership and the consequent reliance on proxy measures of availability and prevalence. For this reason, we recommend that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention or another federal agency resume routine collection of voluntarily provided survey data on gun ownership and use.
This is what I'm talking about man, brick wall. The clown doesn't even read the articles and doesn't have the required knowledge to understand why some of the things he links are garbage. You're wasting your time.
They do? Doesn't seem to be working too well.
We name viruses after the localized place it comes from if we know that origin. Otherwise, if we know the species origin then we use that name if it hasn't been used before. That has always been the case. We know this virus started in Wuhan a localized origin. The proper name is the Wuhan virus.
WOW the bullshit from you.
The proper name is the Wuhan virus.
As abj13 said , the name is SARS-CoV-2, NOT Wuhan virus.
Abj13 is correct. You are not. You have used the improper name 5 times in this thread. All 5 have been wrong. The virus's proper name is SARS-CoV-2 and the disease it causes is COVID-19. If you need another reference besides abj13's try
Naming the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) and the virus that causes it
An explanation of the official names for the corona virus disease (COVID-2019) and the virus that causes it.www.who.int
Please let us know if you still do not understand. All of us agree that the BS is plentiful, but I'm pretty sure the rest of us see it coming from a different direction.
SARS-CoV-2 was the original scientific name. Most things have a scientific name and a common name. Humans and Homo Sapiens for example. The standardized nomenclature for how to derive the common name of a virus is by its localized origin. Barring a specific place, or if one is already taken, then the original carrier if known. Then they are named after the host cell they inhabit. Last but not least the person who discovered it can give it the common name. Those are the typical naming rules for viruses. Since we know the localized area the virus comes from, Wuhan, and there isn't another virus named for that area yet then the proper naming convention for the common name is to call it by its point of origin. I have no problem calling it by SARS-CoV-2, but that is not a common name. Wuhan Flu or Wuhan Virus would be the common names going by nomenclature.
SARS-CoV-2 was the original scientific name. Most things have a scientific name and a common name. Humans and Homo Sapiens for example. The standardized nomenclature for how to derive the common name of a virus is by its localized origin. Barring a specific place, or if one is already taken, then the original carrier if known. Then they are named after the host cell they inhabit. Last but not least the person who discovered it can give it the common name. Those are the typical naming rules for viruses. Since we know the localized area the virus comes from, Wuhan, and there isn't another virus named for that area yet then the proper naming convention for the common name is to call it by its point of origin. I have no problem calling it by SARS-CoV-2, but that is not a common name. Wuhan Flu or Wuhan Virus would be the common names going by nomenclature.
A quick google search shows ~5.2 billion results for 'covid 19' and about 143 million results for 'wuhan virus', many of those latter results being stories about how you shouldn't call it that.
Assuming the 'common name' means 'what something is commonly called' then the answer is clearly covid 19.
I have yet to have a single conversation in real life with anyone calling it the Wuhan virus or Wuhan flu. The only place I have seen those terms used is by conservatives trying to push a narrative. Like you are doing here.SARS-CoV-2 was the original scientific name. Most things have a scientific name and a common name. Humans and Homo Sapiens for example. The standardized nomenclature for how to derive the common name of a virus is by its localized origin. Barring a specific place, or if one is already taken, then the original carrier if known. Then they are named after the host cell they inhabit. Last but not least the person who discovered it can give it the common name. Those are the typical naming rules for viruses. Since we know the localized area the virus comes from, Wuhan, and there isn't another virus named for that area yet then the proper naming convention for the common name is to call it by its point of origin. I have no problem calling it by SARS-CoV-2, but that is not a common name. Wuhan Flu or Wuhan Virus would be the common names going by nomenclature.
SARS-CoV-2 was the original scientific name. Most things have a scientific name and a common name. Humans and Homo Sapiens for example. The standardized nomenclature for how to derive the common name of a virus is by its localized origin. Barring a specific place, or if one is already taken, then the original carrier if known. Then they are named after the host cell they inhabit. Last but not least the person who discovered it can give it the common name. Those are the typical naming rules for viruses. Since we know the localized area the virus comes from, Wuhan, and there isn't another virus named for that area yet then the proper naming convention for the common name is to call it by its point of origin. I have no problem calling it by SARS-CoV-2, but that is not a common name. Wuhan Flu or Wuhan Virus would be the common names going by nomenclature.