Would you invest in this company?

[rudder]

Let's say you had a hot stock tip from a friend. And investing in this company sounds like an awesome deal, except you learn that this company borrows 46 cents for every dollar it spends. Would you take the plunge? My guess is that company would not last long.

Oh and in other news... the projected deficit was off by about $89 billion. So now the U.S. budget deficit is gonna top out at around ,$1.8trillion. But hey Bush did it so it must be okay (event hough his deficit was 1/4th this size).

Story

Okay, I get the fact the Bush increased the size of government and spent money like it was black friday at walmart and he had a brand new credit card... but is there not one Obama supporter who will agree that we are in deep doodoo?

 

[TruePaige]

You had really high hopes if you thought one man could eliminate our debt in 100 days.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
You had really high hopes if you thought one man could eliminate our debt in 100 days.

Who said anything about eliminating it? I had high hopes he wouldnt nearly quadruple our already high deficit and accelerate our debt\gdp ratio.

 

[smashp]

Well of course the Debt to GDP ratio has changed. The economy is in fail mode and the Government had to spend more to try to stop the decline.Then consider GDP reduced in the first quarter.



Please name the last President that was handed sch a mess his first 100 days in Office?

 

[SammyJr]

Wasn't it Dick Cheney who said that deficits don't matter?

And shockingly, I agree with him up to a point. As long as your debt is manageable and provides a benefit that you would not have debt free, then the debt is good.

 

[her209]

Is TARP included in the 2009 budget number?

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: rudder
Let's say you had a hot stock tip from a friend. And investing in this company sounds like an awesome deal, except you learn that this company borrows 46 cents for every dollar it spends. Would you take the plunge? My guess is that company would not last long.

Oh and in other news... the projected deficit was off by about $89 billion. So now the U.S. budget deficit is gonna top out at around ,$1.8trillion. But hey Bush did it so it must be okay (event hough his deficit was 1/4th this size).

Story

Okay, I get the fact the Bush increased the size of government and spent money like it was black friday at walmart and he had a brand new credit card... but is there not one Obama supporter who will agree that we are in deep doodoo?

The fact that you even got the hot tip means it's doomed to fail. Most people who know nothing about market treds end up doing better than those who hear rumors about what stocks are going to trend to.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: SammyJr
Wasn't it Dick Cheney who said that deficits don't matter?

And shockingly, I agree with him up to a point. As long as your debt is manageable and provides a benefit that you would not have debt free, then the debt is good.

Do you realize how much the federal government spends each year on interest alone? In FY2008 $412 billion was spent simply on interest payments for our public debt. That's nearly 3/5 of a bank bailout that just gets flushed down the toilet every year. Imagine what we could be doing with that money if our public debt wasn't so high.

Also, what happens if the government's obligations exceed its revenue? Total revenue in FY2008 was only $2.7 trillion, so that $412 billion in interest payments represents a pretty large chunk of the money the feds pull in (about 15%). To me it doesn't seem inconceivable that eventually the government will reach a point where obligations like SS and debt servicing exceed government revenue. Our spending over the last decade has been unsustainable, and unfortunately it doesn't look like Obama is going to break that cycle.

her209: My understanding is that everything is included in the Obama budgets, which is at least a refreshing change from how things were under Bush.

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: rudder
Let's say you had a hot stock tip from a friend. And investing in this company sounds like an awesome deal, except you learn that this company borrows 46 cents for every dollar it spends. Would you take the plunge? My guess is that company would not last long.

Many successful companies have carried massive debt loads at one point or another. Most bank balance sheets (not just distressed banks) have a huge amount of debt. It's how they finance their lending. In fact, most businesses rely on the availability of large amounts of credit to continue operating. That's exactly why the seizure of the credit markets threatened to destroy our economy.

Oh and in other news... the projected deficit was off by about $89 billion. So now the U.S. budget deficit is gonna top out at around ,$1.8trillion. But hey Bush did it so it must be okay (event hough his deficit was 1/4th this size).

Story

Wow, really? You're really going to pretend that you don't know why Obama is running deficits? Please take economics 101. There is not a sane person in the country that thinks that this is the right time to balance the budget.

Okay, I get the fact the Bush increased the size of government and spent money like it was black friday at walmart and he had a brand new credit card... but is there not one Obama supporter who will agree that we are in deep doodoo?

We've been in deep doodoo for the last 2 years. Obama will largely be judged on his ability to stop the freefall.

Edit For Retards: Stopping the freefall also includes solving the problems and subsequently spurring economic growth, and not just stewing in shit soup. I apologize for not making that clear when it initially posted this.

 

[Genx87]

We've been in deep doodoo for the last 2 years. Obama will largely be judged on his ability to stop the freefall.

I see the goal posts moved again.

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: Genx87

We've been in deep doodoo for the last 2 years. Obama will largely be judged on his ability to stop the freefall.

I see the goal posts moved again.

Oh really? And what were the original goal posts?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Blackjack200

Originally posted by: Genx87

We've been in deep doodoo for the last 2 years. Obama will largely be judged on his ability to stop the freefall.

I see the goal posts moved again.

Oh really? And what were the original goal posts?

To fix the problem and get us out of this mess. Now it is just to keep us stewing in the shit soup but keep us from sinking deeper?

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Blackjack200

Originally posted by: Genx87

We've been in deep doodoo for the last 2 years. Obama will largely be judged on his ability to stop the freefall.

I see the goal posts moved again.

Oh really? And what were the original goal posts?

To fix the problem and get us out of this mess. Now it is just to keep us stewing in the shit soup but keep us from sinking deeper?

Good point. I have edited my post to address this.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Blackjack200

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Blackjack200

Originally posted by: Genx87

We've been in deep doodoo for the last 2 years. Obama will largely be judged on his ability to stop the freefall.

I see the goal posts moved again.

Oh really? And what were the original goal posts?

To fix the problem and get us out of this mess. Now it is just to keep us stewing in the shit soup but keep us from sinking deeper?

Good point. I have edited my post to address this.

:disgust:

Really?

You were the type of kid who took his toys home with him when things didnt go his way as well.

 

[fire400]

...some people are born with logic, but not with common sense logic, sometimes.

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Blackjack200

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Blackjack200

Originally posted by: Genx87

We've been in deep doodoo for the last 2 years. Obama will largely be judged on his ability to stop the freefall.

I see the goal posts moved again.

Oh really? And what were the original goal posts?

To fix the problem and get us out of this mess. Now it is just to keep us stewing in the shit soup but keep us from sinking deeper?

Good point. I have edited my post to address this.

:disgust:

Really?

You were the type of kid who took his toys home with him when things didnt go his way as well.

What's the problem? I admitted my mistake and edited my post. Hmph, there's just no pleasing some people.

You were the type of kid who annoyed the shit out of all the other kids then sat on the sidewalk crying when they took their toys somewhere else.

 

[Genx87]

Are you done with your tantrum?

Good.

If you cant handle something as simple as me stating the goal posts have moved based off your post. You will wont last long in this forum.

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Are you done with your tantrum?

Good.

If you cant handle something as simple as me stating the goal posts have moved based off your post. You will wont last long in this forum.

I've answered your question about goal posts and am waiting to see if you have anything additional to contribute to this thread. My guess is no, but please feel free to surprise the shit out of me.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Increase In Federal Debt

Last 120 Days of Bush: $883.5 billion

Obama To Date (5/12/09): $633.6 billion


The Obama Administration debt has jumped $50 billion in the last few days. Nobody likes the huge increase in federal debt (or really, the way the Fed Res is collateralizing really crappy commercial paper) but for the most part it represents 15% to 20% - or more - of our economy today (I 'logically' pulled that number out of my rectum) so if the economy does not rebound in the next year we are really screwed.

Individual and corporate tax receipts this year will amount to less than the total received in 1999 (or $500 billion less than the last Bush budget projection). SS reciepts have been cut $397 billion (not sure over what term) so the Unified Budget will look much less rosey.

As noted above, over the next few years gross interest on the federal debt will be 'zooming' past $600 billion annually because of our accumulation of debt over the last 8 years. This would not include interest to be paid on the accrued debt of the last year - so watch for this number to leap unless the private sector (primarily AIG) begins paying us back (not likely).

Though the 'gross' interest paid is astounding the actual 'net' interest paid is around 1/3 of that figure (because we are effectively borrowing from ourselves).

 

[trooper11]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Though the 'gross' interest paid is astounding the actual 'net' interest paid is around 1/3 of that figure (because we are effectively borrowing from ourselves).

I wish I could borrow from myself for decades and continue spending money like there is no tomorrow.

It seems like the government uses all the same loopholes companies use to skirt around debt.

I just dont get the rationale about increasing debt when we have already been looking at massive debt. I just dont see the upside, I dont see all these new programs making my life better in the long term. Healthcare is great and all, but if I cant afford to buy milk becuase of massive inflation down the road, then healthcare is the least of my concerns.

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: trooper11

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Though the 'gross' interest paid is astounding the actual 'net' interest paid is around 1/3 of that figure (because we are effectively borrowing from ourselves).

I wish I could borrow from myself for decades and continue spending money like there is no tomorrow.

It seems like the government uses all the same loopholes companies use to skirt around debt.

I just dont get the rationale about increasing debt when we have already been looking at massive debt. I just dont see the upside, I dont see all these new programs making my life better in the long term. Healthcare is great and all, but if I cant afford to buy milk becuase of massive inflation down the road, then healthcare is the least of my concerns.

What loopholes?

Just to be clear, I disagree with most of your post, but the casual reference to 'loopholes companies use to skirt around debt' particularly struck me.

 

[JTsyo]

I'm OK with taking out the loans for the wars and mitigating the recession. What I have trouble with is the tax cuts while the deficits are increasing. The spending should be packaged in such a way that in lean years you borrow money but in the years of plenty you pay it back to zero. Of course the government needs to be much smaller than what it is now for this to be feasible. The trouble is it's always harder to make it smaller than larger.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Are you done with your tantrum?

Good.

If you cant handle something as simple as me stating the goal posts have moved based off your post. You will wont last long in this forum.

so he clarifies his point and you go into batshit tangent mode?

 

[Lemon law]

What an absurd thesis for a thread as our OP asks, "Let's say you had a hot stock tip from a friend. And investing in this company sounds like an awesome deal, except you learn that this company borrows 46 cents for every dollar it spends. Would you take the plunge? My guess is that company would not last long."

That analogy fails to ways (1) When you think of it, companies like Microsoft and Xerox started with those kind of debt ratio's.
(2) We are talking about the USA here, its not exactly like a citizen of the USA has a ready supply of other companies to invest in.

We have to realize that GWB&co policies did huge damage to the USA. And those investments are now needed to keep the USA from totally collapsing. Had not GWB&co so screwed up, those emergency save the USA from bankruptcy investments would not have been needed. Not even Hoover managed to do that much damage to the international banking system.

And now we should be asking, what is the alternative? Hoover did nothing, unemployment fed on itself, and soon reached 25%.

 

[Andrew1990]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

We have to realize that GWB&co policies did huge damage to the USA. And those investments are now needed to keep the USA from totally collapsing. .
.

How does UHC keep us from collapsing? How did the GM Bailout keep us from Collapsing?

Not trying to sound like an ass but UHC is nice in the long run but does more damage in the short term. The GM Bailout was pretty much useless in my eyes as it just delayed the bankruptcy.

Even though Bush did a lot of damage, the damage continues with the current administration.