Would you hire a job hopper?

[Stopsignhank]

Yeah, not actually sure if the guy applied for the job or if the temp agency just threw his resume to us hoping it would stick. Yes we hire through temp agencies. Pretty damn stupid if you ask me.

 

[SearchMaster]

LMAO @ staying somewhere for more than a year working 70+ hours a week and not getting paid for it.

It's definitely ridiculous. She's an accountant but hadn't worked in the field in 10+ years (managed a gym for a while, stay at home mom for a while), so she was behind the curve from the get-go. Plus her previous accounting experience was the "sit in a cubicle, do your work, never see the client" kind, and this job requires interfacing with the clients. Ironically that's her best asset, she's great with clients and every one she takes on absolutely raves about her. I expected her to get at least a 20% raise but they showed very clearly that they don't value her hard work.

One of her clients recently tricked her into going to dinner, where there were 7 other business owners in the same industry who were begging her to hang her own shingle and take the 8 of them on as clients. She'd make as much money as she does now, and only have one week per month of heavy work (so one week of 70+ hours, and three weeks of ~10). Somehow the ethics of this bother her even though (a) the client has already left her current firm and the others are not with them, and (b) her current firm has stolen a lot of time from her for over a year now.

 

[Ns1]

I guess your wife doesn't like money

 

[purbeast0]

It's definitely ridiculous. She's an accountant but hadn't worked in the field in 10+ years (managed a gym for a while, stay at home mom for a while), so she was behind the curve from the get-go. Plus her previous accounting experience was the "sit in a cubicle, do your work, never see the client" kind, and this job requires interfacing with the clients. Ironically that's her best asset, she's great with clients and every one she takes on absolutely raves about her. I expected her to get at least a 20% raise but they showed very clearly that they don't value her hard work.

One of her clients recently tricked her into going to dinner, where there were 7 other business owners in the same industry who were begging her to hang her own shingle and take the 8 of them on as clients. She'd make as much money as she does now, and only have one week per month of heavy work (so one week of 70+ hours, and three weeks of ~10). Somehow the ethics of this bother her even though (a) the client has already left her current firm and the others are not with them, and (b) her current firm has stolen a lot of time from her for over a year now.

No offense but sounds like a total pushover.

The reason there are so many of these poorly ran companies is because people in general are dumb and would rather work at a place they are comfortable with while being unhappy, instead of going out and finding a new job that will actually make them happy.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

IMO, the workplace has changed. There used to be a sort of loyalty from both sides - employers would try to help their employees get better and employees would stick with their employer even through bad times. Now each side just wants what is best for them.

My wife is currently with a shitty employer. There is an implied expectation of 70+ hours per week (piling more and more time-sensitive work on everyone's plate), and while she came into her job at under market value, her 70+ hours netted her a laughable raise after her first year (less than 5%). She billed over 8x her salary during that year so it's not like there was no room for a decent bump. But she won't look for another job right now because she doesn't want to be seen as a "job-hopper". She used to be a recruiter and still has that mentality. She has done such a good job for her clients that she has received 6 job offers from them. She has promised to start looking in mid-November but she really needs to be looking now.

Why doesn't she take a job offer from a client?

I'll never understand people who think regularly working 70+ hours per week for someone else with ZERO additional compensation is a good idea.

Funny side-note: they just handed out revised employee agreements, asking them to sign a document that says the employee owes the employer $35,000 if they leave for any reason - including being terminated. I may blow that place up after she finally quits.

That sounds illegal. Please tell me she didn't sign it.

No offense but sounds like a total pushover.

The reason there are so many of these poorly ran companies is because people in general are dumb and would rather work at a place they are comfortable with while being unhappy, instead of going out and finding a new job that will actually make them happy.

I think that's very true. I have a friend I used to work with at a company a few years ago. Management had it out for him and he knew it and constantly bitched and complained, but every time I saw a good job and forwarded it to him, he had 10 excuses why he wouldn't even apply. Things like "I don't want to apply for every job because word might get around and I'll get a reputation." I still don't understand that one.

Anyway, this guy finally left in 2013 just a few months before I left, and he went to a major consumer electronics chain. This particular chain was in trouble then and is now in even deeper trouble. He is in huge debt and has told me repeatedly that he'd have to declare bankruptcy if he missed a single check. Do you think he is looking for a job now? Nope! The best time to look for a job is ALWAYS when you're employed, but this guy seems to be waiting for the ship to sink with him onboard.

 

[SearchMaster]

That sounds illegal. Please tell me she didn't sign it.

As far as I know, no one has signed that document. She sent it to her sister who is an attorney in another state and should hear her response next week. One of her co-workers said there's no way in hell he'll ever sign it.

No offense but sounds like a total pushover.

No offense taken, and it's obviously true.

Why doesn't she take a job offer from a client?

About the ONLY thing she enjoys about her job is the client interaction and the fact that she deals with so many of them. She's a bit worried that going to a "normal" 9-5 office job would bore her to tears.

I'll never understand people who think regularly working 70+ hours per week for someone else with ZERO additional compensation is a good idea.

I'm with you, but there is a certain amount of normalcy to these expectations in the public accounting world. However it's supposed to only be Jan-Apr and Sep-Oct. They are extremely understaffed so "tax season" ended up being Jan-Oct. They lost an accountant a few months ago because they literally worked him to death (heart attack at age 45 I think). The person she replaced a year ago literally went crazy (mental hospital and all) after working 100+ hours a week, completely screwing up the clients' books in the process which my wife has had to correct. And they've fired a couple of accountants as well.

I guess your wife doesn't like money

It truly is not about the money for her. Unfortunately, they have failed her in many more areas than just salary, especially quality of life and flexibility. She loves the client interaction and that's about the only positive this place offers. She's also learning a lot, as end-to-end handling of her clients is something she's not been able to experience previously.

 

[Fritzo]

IMO, the workplace has changed. There used to be a sort of loyalty from both sides - employers would try to help their employees get better and employees would stick with their employer even through bad times. Now each side just wants what is best for them.

My wife is currently with a shitty employer. There is an implied expectation of 70+ hours per week (piling more and more time-sensitive work on everyone's plate), and while she came into her job at under market value, her 70+ hours netted her a laughable raise after her first year (less than 5%). She billed over 8x her salary during that year so it's not like there was no room for a decent bump. But she won't look for another job right now because she doesn't want to be seen as a "job-hopper". She used to be a recruiter and still has that mentality. She has done such a good job for her clients that she has received 6 job offers from them. She has promised to start looking in mid-November but she really needs to be looking now.

Funny side-note: they just handed out revised employee agreements, asking them to sign a document that says the employee owes the employer $35,000 if they leave for any reason - including being terminated. I may blow that place up after she finally quits.

To answer the OP...it really depends how much time it takes for someone to be productive in your environment. If it's a multi-month learning curve then you can't afford a guy who's leaving in 2 years. If they can come in and be productive in a week and it won't take a ton of your time to train him, then if he's good and has excellent references, I'd give him a shot.

That document is not legal. An employer can not charge someone for termination of employment.

 

[Red Squirrel]

LMAO @ staying somewhere for more than a year working 70+ hours a week and not getting paid for it.

LMAO at the idea of unpaid overtime, period. I always want and take OT, but it's because of the pay, not because of the work.

 

[Red Squirrel]

That document is not legal. An employer can not charge someone for termination of employment.

They can do what they want if you sign it, which you have to do to get the job, and often you don't really have time to read stuff like that. It's usually something like "ok welcome board, oh here just sign this, ok so I'm going to show you around". For agreements that are after the fact you normally have to sign it too. You can delay it for as long as you want but eventually you'll be forced to sign it.

 

[purbeast0]

So why doesn't she open her own

They can do what they want if you sign it, which you have to do to get the job, and often you don't really have time to read stuff like that. It's usually something like "ok welcome board, oh here just sign this, ok so I'm going to show you around". For agreements that are after the fact you normally have to sign it too. You can delay it for as long as you want but eventually you'll be forced to sign it.

That's not really true. I could write on a napkin that if you sign your name you owe me $1,000,000. Just because you sign it doesn't mean I can enforce it.

 

[twinrider1]

To answer some of the questions, we are a specialized manufacturing facility. Don't want to say what type, they don't know the moniker Stopsignhank and I would prefer to leave it that way. This is also a maintenance position, there really is no job growth or expansion. You come in, do your job, get paid on Friday, rinse and repeat. I am not interested in someone who wants to move up in the organization, because it is not going to happen. So the job I am hiring for is really a different mind set than the ATOT crowd. For instance the guy I am looking for wants to work on Saturday so he can get OT. I would prefer NOT to work on Saturdays.

Old school employment is fine If you offer a real pension and health insurance. But these days it's all about the right now. Pay me now, match into my 401k, and that's it. Loyalty doesn't seem to be a consideration anymore.

 

[mugs]

I always ask why they've changed jobs so often. If they've been doing contract work, that's fine. If they're leaving permanent positions every two years by their own choice, I'm not wasting my time with them.

 

[OverVolt]

Attrition/Job hoping normally has to do with the place more than the employee. I worked somewhere 7 years, never happier. Then there were changes in management, budget problems, etc and it turned into a high turnover hell hole. I went to a new place and it was basically the same story, so out of the frying pan and into the oven. Same field, so both places going through the same thing.

I think the most important thing is if he is a cultural fit, then I wouldn't worry about job hopping at all.

 

[OverVolt]

If you don't mind me asking, why? I obviously do not do that. I am fifty something and have only had 2 jobs after college.

Because you work for a good place. After 2008 most employers started treating everyone like trash. Sounds like even if your company was stressed, it didn't just directly lash out at its employees. Alot of places did and continue to do so at their detriment.

I had a job where someone asked me where some obscure log book was on the weekend and I was like I dunno I've been here 7 months and they looked around and said "But you're the most senior full-time person here!" And then I looked around too and I was like All be damned you're right. Then it took me like an hour to find it.

 

[WhiteNoise]

I have hired and fired more than my fair share of employees. I look for three to fours years per job. Depending on the job that is realistic IMO and shows some dedication working towards goals.

I get a lot of applicants that go 6 months to 1 year. If I see a pattern I skip that person. A pattern of even two years would most likely turn me off.

 

[DigDog]

i am a job hopper; i see the training / general learning on the job as part of my wage, once that dries up i'm ready to move on. I would easily stay in a job, assuming it was a worthwile job.

My line manager at IBM actually said this phrase to me: "in sisteen years i have never taken a day off".
Bitch please, you have worked 16 years here, and you earn $2k more than i do ?!? (per year, not per month, lol)

That does NOT make you a better hire in my eyes, that makes you someone totally incapable of moving forward.

 

[brianmanahan]

My line manager at IBM actually said this phrase to me: "in sisteen years i have never taken a day off".

yeah, that sounds like IBM...

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Why doesn't she take a job offer from a client?

I'll never understand people who think regularly working 70+ hours per week for someone else with ZERO additional compensation is a good idea.

Sacrifice now for taking 5 stairs at a time shortly thereafter. I'm in the same boat with an accounting firm. I definitely do not see myself being here long term, it's just not my type of work. I do, however, have recruiters at my balls 24/7 thanks to the 4 or so years that I have been with this type of work. At some point after learning enough (and I have learned a shit ton thanks to this job) I plan to jump ship to industry for a fatter salary and much easier hours.

Anyhow, on the topic of switching jobs too much, I disagree with OP. 2 Years is a decent amount of time. I agree with SearchMaster, the name of the game has definitely changed. No longer about loyalty. Employers/managers are asking the question: "How can we retain this employee and make them work harder while minimizing any expenses/investments on them?" It's disturbing and sickening. It's one of the reasons I have been with my consulting position for 4 years though - my raise last year was 12%. Last year it was 10%. Prior to that I jumped from one to another and got ~20%.

Here has been my jobs from when I got out of school
1. ~2.5 years as a foot in the door credit & collections job - Laid off due to outsourcing our department
2. ~1.5 years as my first accounting position for a firm - Left for a competitor due to ridiculous micro managing and piss-poor raises
3. Over 2 years at my current accounting position. They have treated me well from the get-go. The expectations are ridiculous, but I've managed to deal with it. As I said previously, I know I can't sustain this lifestyle, so I plan to jump ship within 5 years, ideally after a promotion.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I'm with you, but there is a certain amount of normalcy to these expectations in the public accounting world. However it's supposed to only be Jan-Apr and Sep-Oct. They are extremely understaffed so "tax season" ended up being Jan-Oct. They lost an accountant a few months ago because they literally worked him to death (heart attack at age 45 I think). The person she replaced a year ago literally went crazy (mental hospital and all) after working 100+ hours a week, completely screwing up the clients' books in the process which my wife has had to correct. And they've fired a couple of accountants as well.

Holy hell, is that a Big 4?

I would hope not with that piss poor of a management. Someone would get their head chopped off for screwing up things that badly.