Would you do it?

[Elledan]

<< no, death is just as important as life

That's true because death and rebirth is a part of the cycle that is evident in nature. To override that function and phenomenon by asserting my own superiority is to finally rise above all else and say "Look at me and how great I am". >>

What if it's not about egoism, but if the decision to undergo this procedure is what seemed logical at that time?


<< I happen to think that this sort of attitude is deleterious to the well being of humanity and to the environment in which I live. The squirrel dies. The leaves decompose. The trees shed fruit. I don't see a reason why I should go from the state I found myself in, no matter how perplexing that is to my poor neurotic self. >>

These are merely opinions. They are not reason enough to convince one that this procedure is somehow 'evil' or 'unnatural'.

From what I've seen, I can only conclude that it's simply yet another development in the evolution of mankind. From biological creatures to artificial ones. Going beyond limits which previously kept us from reaching places we always dreamed of. The start of a revolution.

 

[SWScorch]

I dont believe it though. I think we arent even close to understanding what makes us "be." I think our brains are the physical aspect of our selves, but I believe I dont know, in like a "spirit" or "soul" or something. I dont believe in reincarnation, or even an afterlife, for I believe that this ethereal "force" that is us cannot live without the physical portion, and vice versa. Sort of like cloning. Dolly the sheep: was the clone of her still her? I say no. It was a different sheep that had the same physical structure. Like identical twins. (although I know they arent perfectly exact).

 

[linuxboy]

I'm very well familiar with neuroscience, thank you.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Ifness does not solve the problem of my existence.

Cheers !

 

[flot]

...you could be your own best friend and send yourself for pizza...

 

[Atlantean]

I probably would do it, I would remain myself, it would be a strange because one of us would be effectively immortal and the other would die eventually, I think it would be better if we could make humans live forever, because I don't think that a machine will be able to reproduce the feelings and senses that a true human feels.

 

[Xenon14]

Anyone see the 6th Day w/ Arnold?

 

[jjones]

<<
<< Another question is should the new android me be allowed to replicate? I could create a whole new "me" colony. >>

This would make no sense, since neural network (individuals) which develop in an artificial body will be better adapted to that situation. Besides, it's been proven many times that individuals are capable of forming a society. Clones would have a hard time to function in a society, because of personality conflicts.
>>


I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here. What would be the difference between transferring my original biological mind to a prepared android, or copying the newly created android "me" into another prepared android? I should be able to create as many as I would like or could afford.

Regarding individuals being necessary for the formation of a viable society, I think it would be very difficult to show that "same person" individuals could not also form a viable society. Although I'm not a fan of communism, I would think that this would show a potential to create a more idyllic society based on communism than ever dreamed possible. Long term however, such a society may very well stagnate due to atrophied stages of development.

 

[Elledan]

<<

<<
<< Another question is should the new android me be allowed to replicate? I could create a whole new "me" colony. >>

This would make no sense, since neural network (individuals) which develop in an artificial body will be better adapted to that situation. Besides, it's been proven many times that individuals are capable of forming a society. Clones would have a hard time to function in a society, because of personality conflicts.
>>


I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here. What would be the difference between transferring my original biological mind to a prepared android, or copying the newly created android "me" into another prepared android? I should be able to create as many as I would like or could afford. >>

I was actually saying that an individual with an artificial body who has never occupied a biological body would be better adapted to it. Or better said, the neural net of this person would be better adapted to the artificial body.



<< Regarding individuals being necessary for the formation of a viable society, I think it would be very difficult to show that "same person" individuals could not also form a viable society. Although I'm not a fan of communism, I would think that this would show a potential to create a more idyllic society based on communism than ever dreamed possible. Long term however, such a society may very well stagnate due to atrophied stages of development. >>

The reason why a collection of the same individuals can not form a viable society is because a society depends on everyone specializing in one or more tasks. With every individual having the same preferences, it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to create a thriving society this way.

 

[Elledan]

<< I dont believe it though. I think we arent even close to understanding what makes us "be." I think our brains are the physical aspect of our selves, but I believe I dont know, in like a "spirit" or "soul" or something. I dont believe in reincarnation, or even an afterlife, for I believe that this ethereal "force" that is us cannot live without the physical portion, and vice versa. Sort of like cloning. Dolly the sheep: was the clone of her still her? I say no. It was a different sheep that had the same physical structure. Like identical twins. (although I know they arent perfectly exact). >>

Everything beyond what we can directly observe or can logically conclude based on observations, experiments and facts is mere superstition. Your 'theory' relies on superstition and is therefore unacceptable.

 

[Elledan]

<< Anyone see the 6th Day w/ Arnold? >>

Yup, I've seen it.

 

[Jfur]

yes, I plan to do this . not forever, but to extend life and capabilities

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Someone saw the Stargate SG1 episode Tin Man didn't they?

 

[Elledan]

<< Someone saw the Stargate SG1 episode Tin Man didn't they? >>

Who did?

 

[LordMaul]

After some thought which you really made me do(not something which is usually required in Off Topic. ) I decided that yes, I would do it.

It would be really quite nice, when say, I was sick. It could go to work for me. Or other things, which seem to be really advantagous.

Damn, I'm thinking too hard. May I be excused? My brain is full...

 

[Elledan]

<< I'm very well familiar with neuroscience, thank you.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Ifness does not solve the problem of my existence.

Cheers ! >>

Your prejudice influences your judgement.

 

[jjones]

<< The reason why a collection of the same individuals can not form a viable society is because a society depends on everyone specializing in one or more tasks. With every individual having the same preferences, it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to create a thriving society this way. >>


Well, I'll still disagree with you about this because I think you're pondering this from the perspective of a biological society but I'll leave it at that. I don't think you're considering the radical change to society that would happen due to this being a community of androids and you're also not taking into consideration the nature of the person upon whom this society is based.

 

[Elledan]

<< I don't think you're considering the radical change to society that would happen due to this being a community of androids >>

Hmm... you might be true about that. Things would be pretty much different.


<< and you're also not taking into consideration the nature of the person upon whom this society is based. >>

I did take this into consideration.

 

[xirtam]

I understand the hypothetical argument, so I'm not going to try to argue on grounds as to whether or not it is feasible, even though I think it isn't. For further discussion, I'll just assume that this "project" is feasible.

What would be the purpose, Elledan? What is the motivation behind this? A science experiment? A way to extend human life ad infinitum? Expansion of technology?

Also, what evidence do you have to support your claim that the brain is "all there is"? Also, how do you prove that science is true?

The question: "Would I do it" is largely based on the question "Should I do it."

 

[Deleted member 54998]

So I am sitting in a room, facing my andriod, preparing for the brain transfer. The process involves an exact replica of my brain to be created, the original is not destroyed. The process startes and I sit there watching my andriod as a download status bar slowly aproaches 100%. It reaches 100%. I am still looking at my android. Now the android is 'alive' and is an exact replica of me, but it is not me. I a still looking at the andriod. I am not the andriod looking at me. This is the problem. This is why teleportation can't work. -- If there are two identical objects, there are still two objects, not one.

 

[Elledan]

<< I understand the hypothetical argument, so I'm not going to try to argue on grounds as to whether or not it is feasible, even though I think it isn't. For further discussion, I'll just assume that this "project" is feasible. >>

Thank you.



<< What would be the purpose, Elledan? What is the motivation behind this? A science experiment? A way to extend human life ad infinitum? Expansion of technology? >>

Curiosity and logic.



<< Also, what evidence do you have to support your claim that the brain is "all there is"? >>

Do have any reason to assume that it's not the case?


<< Also, how do you prove that science is true? >>

LOL

'science', is our curiosity at work. It's a learning process.



<< The question: "Would I do it" is largely based on the question "Should I do it." >>

Well, why not? What do you've got to lose?

 

[linuxboy]

Your prejudice influences your judgement.

Muwahahahahahaha. All I did was put in two random quotes that popped into my head and you ascribe them to any mental state I have. Oh you're too easy....


Cheers !

 

[SWScorch]

<< No, I would not. If my thoughts and feelings and whatever else that makes me who I am were uploaded to an artificial body, assuming I survived the process, then there would be the "real" me, and an artificial me. You contend that the artificial me is as much me as I am. As far as he is concerned you may be right. From his perspective he was born when I was, has all the same memories that I do, and shares my thought paterns, and personality. As far as he is concerned he is me in every way. Yet I won't be able to share his thoughts or his feelings. That makes him intrinsically not me. I think, therefore I am. If this other person is as much me as I am, then it would be he thinks therefore I am, and that doesn't make sense at all. It makes no difference if the "real" me dies during the procedure, or twenty years after the construction of the artificial me. When the real me dies I am dead, and the artificial me is merely an identical copy. >>



There we go. Lirion said it much more succinctly and eloquently than I could have. That is exactly how I feel. I would not live forever; the artifical me, the copy would. I would not share its experiences. It would not be me. In his views he would, but not from my perspective.

 

[oLLie]

Wow, as of right now it's an exact 3 way tie at 21 votes apiece!

 

[Elledan]

<< Your prejudice influences your judgement.

Muwahahahahahaha. All I did was put in two random quotes that popped into my head and you ascribe them to any mental state I have. Oh you're too easy....


Cheers ! >>

Talking about pathetic excuses...

If you are going to post drivel, use the current nef-thread.

 

[Elledan]

<< There we go. Lirion said it much more succinctly and eloquently than I could have. That is exactly how I feel. I would not live forever; the artifical me, the copy would. I would not share its experiences. It would not be me. In his views he would, but not from my perspective. >>

Clearly, some people here have a lot of trouble imaging this situation.

Let me explain it again. This 'copy' is exactly the same person as the 'original'. There would be two inviduals like you. Two times yourself. If the 'artificial' you looks at the 'biological' you, he will see himself.

Both will have trouble dealing with the idea that the other person is a nearly identical copy, sharing the same identify, personality, memories etc.

Neither 'version' of you will experience the other's experiences.



<< I would not live forever; the artifical me, the copy would. I would not share its experiences. It would not be me. In his views he would, but not from my perspective. >>




<< I would live forever; the biological me, the original would not. I would not share its experiences. It would not be me. In his views he would, but not from my perspective. >>




See?