Would you do it?

[Elledan]

Imagine: the working of the brain is understood, allowing AI to become superior to biological neural networks. It has also become possible to scan a biological neural network and record the connections of each neuron, the type of neurotransmitter produced by each neuron etc.

By combining these two technologies, it's possible to make an artifical 'brain' which, at least in the first few moments, is an (nearly) exact copy of the biological neural network, allowing personality and memories to remain intact. In fact, the artificial brain would be a 'clone' of the original.

Since by that time computers have become fast and small enough, it's possible to combine the artificial brain with an artificial body, resulting in what many of us would call an 'android'.

--

Now, the question: would you want to undergo this procedure? The 'copy' of you would be just as much yourself as the original, only the 'artificial' version of you would theoretically be able to live forever, while the 'biological' version would die eventually, even if it would last another couple of centuries.

I would appreciate it if you would explain your reasoning instead of just replying with 'yes' or 'no'.

PS: take your time. This issue is far more complicated than it might seem.

 

[udonoogen]

this is pretty deep for an off topic forum. we all die. thats a fact of life. living on in the form of an "android" wont change that fact. just suck it up and enjoy life. find meaning.

 

[Kadarin]

Hell yeah, I would do it! Why not? (1) There would be no harm, and (2) It would be a chance at some form of extended life.

 

[Adul]

if i like cheese, would my counter part also like cheese?

 

[Elledan]

<< if i like cheese, would my counter part also like cheese? >>

That's like saying: 'If I like cheese, will I like cheese?'

 

[polypterus]

What would be the point of this? Once I'm dead what do I care what happens afterwards?

dc

 

[HardcoreRobot]

Replacing my aging biological parts with replaceable mechanical ones, yes. The problem is, even if you can exactly reconstruct ones neurological structure at any given instant, will one's "consciousness" transfer as well? Im afraid that each individual's stream of consciousness its bonded to their stream of biology. Breaking that stream by reconstructing on a nanoscale could potentially create a "new" being.

 

[Scouzer]

No. Life sucks.

 

[Elledan]

<< Replacing my aging biological parts with replaceable mechanical ones, yes. The problem is, even if you can exactly reconstruct ones neurological structure at any given instant, will one's "consciousness" transfer as well? Im afraid that each individual's stream of consciousness its bonded to their stream of biology. Breaking that stream by reconstructing on a nanoscale could potentially create a "new" being. >>

As far as we know, personality and consciousness is a result of the brainstructure (the connections between neurons). By copying this brainstructure, the personality/consciousness is 'transferred' (copied) as well.

Your brain is you.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

The thing is, if you could exactly copy the neurological structure and electrical map of a human, then you would have two exact consciounesses existing in separate bodies. I cant imagine existing in two simultaneous biologies. If the "old" one were to be destroyed at the exact instant the new one was created then what guarantee is there that it would be me? Perhaps they would have the same habits, memory and knowledge as me, but I feel it would only be a fresh instantiation of me, with a new consciousness assuming my role.

 

[Elledan]

<< I cant imagine existing in two simultaneous biologies. >>

That was the exact reason why I started this thread. I've been thinking about this issue for some weeks now, but no matter how I look at it, it still is hard to imagine.

I think I would do it, though.

 

[Shalmanese]

*tap* *tap* *tap* wiating for all the fundamentalists who want to claim the "soul" is intrinsic to your flesh without any proof.

Anyway, I have thought about this problem for a while and it presents a dillemma for me becuase I think that I would want to do it but I dont want a society where this happens.

If you have read any of Isaac Asimovs robot series, I think he makes a good point, immortality removes the desire to innovate and takes risks and society will effectivly freeze from a development point of view. mortality gives us the drive to suceed.

So, this has always been a kind of paradox in my mind.

Also, another problem would be that a robotic me would become increasingly frustrated with mechanical limitations as there would be an increasing disparity between thinking speed and acting speed. Eventually, you would just be fed up with moving and just sit and think.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

What got me started on thinking about this is the combination of nanotechnology and teleportation. It is entirely feasible that within our lifetime it will be possible to make a complete scan of one's biologica/electrical structure and recreate that structure on a molecular level in any given place. I just have nothing to suggest that "my" consciousness would be transferred. I would definitely hesistate to do this.

 

[navyrn]

Depends if the system that does this copy is running Windows or not. I would hate for it to crash at some crucial point and i have to spend what little time i have left acting like Jerry Lewis......

 

[Elledan]

<< *tap* *tap* *tap* wiating for all the fundamentalists who want to claim the "soul" is intrinsic to your flesh without any proof. >>

Yeah, I wanted to add a remark about sticking to scientific facts and theories only, but it would probably only have lead to such posts



<< Anyway, I have thought about this problem for a while and it presents a dillemma for me becuase I think that I would want to do it but I dont want a society where this happens.

If you have read any of Isaac Asimovs robot series, I think he makes a good point, immortality removes the desire to innovate and takes risks and society will effectivly freeze from a development point of view. mortality gives us the drive to suceed. >>

I thought it was curiosity which drives innovation? Please explain how mortality is more important than curiosity. IMHO mortality has an insignificant effect on innovation, but I could be wrong.



<< So, this has always been a kind of paradox in my mind.

Also, another problem would be that a robotic me would become increasingly frustrated with mechanical limitations as there would be an increasing disparity between thinking speed and acting speed. Eventually, you would just be fed up with moving and just sit and think. >>

Could you please elaborate on this?

 

[Elledan]

<< What got me started on thinking about this is the combination of nanotechnology and teleportation. It is entirely feasible that within our lifetime it will be possible to make a complete scan of one's biologica/electrical structure and recreate that structure on a molecular level in any given place. I just have nothing to suggest that "my" consciousness would be transferred. I would definitely hesistate to do this. >>

What makes you think that your consciousness is somehow a seperate entity and not a mere result of a highly developed neural network?

 

[HardcoreRobot]

I dont think they are separate, but rather completely intertwined. Following this reasoning, creating a copy of my neural network will create a copy of me, but not *me*.

 

[Nemesis77]

There is a one catch. Read 'till the finish.

I would do it. To replace my dying body with an immortal body? Yes! Another thing I might do is to upload my consciousness in to a computer and "live" there.

But (there's always a but)... Having to watch all my loved ones die while I keep on living? No. I would do it if my soul-mate (she knows who she is ) would do it also. If she didn't do it and I had to watch her die... What would be the point in living anymore? Each day would remind you of your loss, and you would feel like you betrayed her.

I voted yes. But only if I could take my loved one with me.

 

[IGBT]

Wouldn't you eventually accumulate a bunch of obsolete droids?? And who's going to do the service and maintaince on these things? Everything breaks sooner or later. And at what point will service be not cost efficient...parts aren't made for ever. Try finding an intel 8080 cpu. I guess their out there somewhere...but where and why??

 

[Elledan]

<< I dont think they are separate, but rather completely intertwined. Following this reasoning, creating a copy of my neural network will create a copy of me, but not *me*. >>

You do realize that this is inconsistent with everything we know about neural networks?

It has been found that the frontal lobe is home to (a large part of) personality. People by who the frontal lobe was severed from the rest of the brain changed completely in personality. They often became the total opposite of the person they were before.

 

[Elledan]

<< Wouldn't you eventually accumulate a bunch of obsolete droids?? And who's going to do the service and maintaince on these things? Everything breaks sooner or later. And at what point will service be not cost efficient...parts aren't made for ever. Try finding an intel 8080 cpu. I guess their out there somewhere...but where and why?? >>

The nice thing is that the artifical neural network is not inseperable from the hardware. One could 'upgrade' his or her body whenever s/he wants to.

 

[Elledan]

<< I voted yes. But only if I could take my loved one with me. >>

Everyone would be given the chance to undergo this procedure. If your loved one will not refuse to do it, she would be at your side for the rest of your li... uhm, existance

[edit]: note to self: mixing up two sentences is a bad practice.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

<< It has been found that the frontal lobe is home to (a large part of) personality. People by who the frontal lobe was severed from the rest of the brain changed completely in personality. They often became the total opposite of the person they were before. >>


I think if this were to happen to me I would effectively "die", and someone else would resume my life where I left off.

 

[Nemesis77]

<<

<< I voted yes. But only if I could take my loved one with me. >>

Everyone would be given the chance to undergo this procedure. Only if your loved one would refuse to do it, she would be at your side for the rest of your li... uhm, existance >>



So it's up to her. And knowing her, I think it would take some persuading....

 

[Elledan]

<<

<< It has been found that the frontal lobe is home to (a large part of) personality. People by who the frontal lobe was severed from the rest of the brain changed completely in personality. They often became the total opposite of the person they were before. >>


I think if this were to happen to me I would effectively "die", and someone else would resume my life where I left off. >>

If the procedure went flawless, your personality should be intact.