i bought my house a year ago. it was built in 1922 and as such the neighborhood is full of large trees that provide both shade and a great atmosphere. no new neighborhoods for me.
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
My house was originally built in 1927 or so, but it was fully remodeled about 10 years ago, with (mostly new) plumbing and new wiring. On the exterior, it has newer windows, roofing, and siding. The high-efficiency furnace and central AC were new in '03. And I love the mature trees in my yard.
Not all older houses are as "old" as you might think.
Not all older houses are as "old" as you might think.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
That would be great...it's just not that simple any more. Even "raw" land around here that is nothing more than corn fields or trees is going for $25k+ an acre. Many counties have rules in place that state that you can not sell lots in less than 5 acre chunks without subdividing.
So you are faced with one of two options - paying out $100,000+ for a 5 acre plot...then paying another $25,000 in landscaping work and utility runs, and then another $20,000 for a well and septic. You've just put in almost $150,000 and you haven't even thought about putting a house on it.
If you go with a subdivided lot you are looking at like $50,000 for an acre to an acre and a half. Then you still have to put in a well and septic for another $20,000. There's $70,000 down the tubes before you even thought of the house. Plus you are missing out on a lot of the mature growth and landscaping.
And then once I go that route with the subdivision, I usually have some sort of square foot and appearance requirements that I have to meet. I can't just slap in a little cracker box with all vinyl siding and call it good.
I can buy a 3BR, 2000 sq/ft home on an acre of ground for $180,000 in my neighborhood. I'd be very hard up to put in a home for about $100,000 more than it would just to buy a lot and get it ready for a home.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
- 81
its nto as bad around here. but it is getting that way. The wife and i were looking a small plot of land ot build a house on in the country. the country tried (not sure if they did) that you can't buy small acrage (we wanted 5 acres) of farmland for a house to build. each lot has to be min of 20 acres or so.
say you have 40 acres and want to build a house for your kids. you can't even do that (there is a huge lawsuit going on now about that_)
Originally posted by: MagicConch
I can see how some can get to those conclusions but just as easily someone can say old neighborhoods (where I live at least) with some exceptions are equally depressing:
-eyesore properties sprinkled liberally throughout
-sloppily constructed streets and sidewalks making riding bikes, etc difficult
-community disregard for neighborhood shared space (if there is any at all)
-no natural wildlife aside from things like squirrels, etc since everything has been parcelled up and there are no nearby 50+ acre preserved natural reserves whatsoever which are everywhere in new neighborhoods here, most at least 100 acres
-no exercise facilities, tennis courts, etc, well-maintained, within walking distance
-no 5+ acre parks within a mile (there is a park within walking distance of every new home here)
-no Cat5 wiring
-out here no fiber to the premises (at&t will only do that to new houses)
both old and new have +'s and -'s imo
I find this to be exactly to opposite of what i've seen. In newer parts, there are no parks, but in the older parts there is a park every couple blocks. All the larger parks in town are in the older areas.
Old = built to last with MANY toxic materials, barely meeting modern building codes. Probably looks nicer and more unique.
New = Built to sell. Should follow most regulations. Probably looks like the other 2000 houses nearby.
I'd take the new one. I live in a 100 year old house with absolute shit for wiring, toxic paint hidden under newer/peeling paint. Most walls have no insulation, just double-brick. Heat is leaking everywhere, windows don't/barely open, and it will take about $50k+ to update everything. Worst of all, some retard thought it'd be a good idea back then to put a bathroom right beside the kitchen; door to bathroom is directly connected to kitchen. Try to eat when someone does their stuff... Oh, and just last night, all my expensive electronics got hit by a power outage all cause the genius electrician decided to put 3 different outlets in 3 different rooms across 2 floors into one circuit. Unless it's been completely overhauled, go for the new.
New = Built to sell. Should follow most regulations. Probably looks like the other 2000 houses nearby.
I'd take the new one. I live in a 100 year old house with absolute shit for wiring, toxic paint hidden under newer/peeling paint. Most walls have no insulation, just double-brick. Heat is leaking everywhere, windows don't/barely open, and it will take about $50k+ to update everything. Worst of all, some retard thought it'd be a good idea back then to put a bathroom right beside the kitchen; door to bathroom is directly connected to kitchen. Try to eat when someone does their stuff... Oh, and just last night, all my expensive electronics got hit by a power outage all cause the genius electrician decided to put 3 different outlets in 3 different rooms across 2 floors into one circuit. Unless it's been completely overhauled, go for the new.
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
That's just the thing when it comes to real estate discussions like this. People know about "around here" and the generalizations run rampant.
"Around here" it is possible to build a new home in the county without getting raped and ending up with a shack on a 5 acre lot. I routinely assess beautiful new homes on 1 acre lots on a weekly basis.
I guess I live and work in town and country heaven :roll: *shrug*
Here's ATOT's residential categories - a) slums / ghetto b) subdivisions AKA "cookie cutters" c) the Hamptons
"Around here" it is possible to build a new home in the county without getting raped and ending up with a shack on a 5 acre lot. I routinely assess beautiful new homes on 1 acre lots on a weekly basis.
I guess I live and work in town and country heaven :roll: *shrug*
Here's ATOT's residential categories - a) slums / ghetto b) subdivisions AKA "cookie cutters" c) the Hamptons
Really like the "elitist" attitudes in this thread. Older is better...less is more! Yah! :roll: A lot of it just depends on personal taste and where you live. You buy old around here in Dallas, as in the old houses you're talking about, and you're paying for location, not for a "better" house. I wouldn't pay half of what some of my friends paid for their "awesome circa '50's houses" because it has 'style and character'. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
funboy6942
Lifer
- Nov 13, 2001
- 15,368
- 418
- 126
Here is my take on this, but keep in mind it may not be for all, but it is from personal experience.
As most know I bought my home 2 years ago for $49.5K, built in 1942, obviously used, but hand built by the people we bought it from by their own hands, and all it needed was some paint and plaster redone. Older neighborhood, no crime, no traffic, had absolutely no worries for the last 2 years, and have been the best 2 years of my entire life, and 8 years I been married.
My Biological father and his girlfriend bought a home in Upper scale Indiana in a good neighborhood, with a decent back yard, little after I got mine, for well over $750K
What have I dont to my home after painting and plastering a few things, and minor home improvements that were not needing to be done, but because we found real hardwood floors under the carpet? NOTHING. Have not had a single problem. Not even a floor creek. Minor spider infestation due to not being used for several years after the husband died, but thats been taken care of and virtually spider free.
My fathers home. He has been working on it, or has hired someone to work on it since the day he bought it for something has gone wrong. Water leaks, wrong way of doing something like putting tile down in the bathroom to water proof around the tub and sink, electrical problems, walls falling down, all of this on a new home less then 5 years old. And everytime I call to say hello he is working on some part of the home.
Would I buy a new home. No. Why, because sure they are up to better code maybe, and "wired" for the future, but other then that they are still built like crap, thrown together as fast as they can, as cheap as they can, hiring the cheapest people they can find, to get the home done and on the market.
With a older home, if it passes a good inspection, and doesnt come back with poor foundation, or anything major all the other items are noting. Rewiring is nothing to have done, and IMO homes that are older are much better built for back then it was built by people who believed in what they were doing. When their word was their bond, and not that they can get it done in 2 weeks for $5 just so you can turn a profit. There was more care taken into building a older home then those of today. Most are all built with cost and speed in mind, no attention to details. For case in point though here is a link to a home built in 1900 for sale in my town for $30K
With some time and effort can be made to be a really beautiful home once again. Just look at the fireplaces, and detail that went into making the surrounding for them, and the stairs leading to the 2nd floor.
Very nice older home for $30k
But other then that, really there is no way of knowing if your home is going to be a good one or not. Its just like a car. You can have a new one give you no problems at all, and used ones too. But then have them both give you nothing but trouble from day one costing you money in repairs all the time.
For my money though, put my money on the older home thats been standing tall for 60 years and hasnt fallen down, sagged in its foundation, or anything major gone wrong. AA new home, on a new foundation, built by a bunch of underpaid, drunken pot smokers, on what may be a sink hole, which in a few years causes your home to shift and come apart, just because you wanted new and it wired for cable in every room, Id think it over as far as the headaches you may get down the road and choose wise, and smart, picking out a home built by a good builder, or a older one thats been around for years proving it wont be going no where and just have someone come in and run some new wires and a tankless water heater in there for you.
As most know I bought my home 2 years ago for $49.5K, built in 1942, obviously used, but hand built by the people we bought it from by their own hands, and all it needed was some paint and plaster redone. Older neighborhood, no crime, no traffic, had absolutely no worries for the last 2 years, and have been the best 2 years of my entire life, and 8 years I been married.
My Biological father and his girlfriend bought a home in Upper scale Indiana in a good neighborhood, with a decent back yard, little after I got mine, for well over $750K
What have I dont to my home after painting and plastering a few things, and minor home improvements that were not needing to be done, but because we found real hardwood floors under the carpet? NOTHING. Have not had a single problem. Not even a floor creek. Minor spider infestation due to not being used for several years after the husband died, but thats been taken care of and virtually spider free.
My fathers home. He has been working on it, or has hired someone to work on it since the day he bought it for something has gone wrong. Water leaks, wrong way of doing something like putting tile down in the bathroom to water proof around the tub and sink, electrical problems, walls falling down, all of this on a new home less then 5 years old. And everytime I call to say hello he is working on some part of the home.
Would I buy a new home. No. Why, because sure they are up to better code maybe, and "wired" for the future, but other then that they are still built like crap, thrown together as fast as they can, as cheap as they can, hiring the cheapest people they can find, to get the home done and on the market.
With a older home, if it passes a good inspection, and doesnt come back with poor foundation, or anything major all the other items are noting. Rewiring is nothing to have done, and IMO homes that are older are much better built for back then it was built by people who believed in what they were doing. When their word was their bond, and not that they can get it done in 2 weeks for $5 just so you can turn a profit. There was more care taken into building a older home then those of today. Most are all built with cost and speed in mind, no attention to details. For case in point though here is a link to a home built in 1900 for sale in my town for $30K
With some time and effort can be made to be a really beautiful home once again. Just look at the fireplaces, and detail that went into making the surrounding for them, and the stairs leading to the 2nd floor.
Very nice older home for $30k
But other then that, really there is no way of knowing if your home is going to be a good one or not. Its just like a car. You can have a new one give you no problems at all, and used ones too. But then have them both give you nothing but trouble from day one costing you money in repairs all the time.
For my money though, put my money on the older home thats been standing tall for 60 years and hasnt fallen down, sagged in its foundation, or anything major gone wrong. AA new home, on a new foundation, built by a bunch of underpaid, drunken pot smokers, on what may be a sink hole, which in a few years causes your home to shift and come apart, just because you wanted new and it wired for cable in every room, Id think it over as far as the headaches you may get down the road and choose wise, and smart, picking out a home built by a good builder, or a older one thats been around for years proving it wont be going no where and just have someone come in and run some new wires and a tankless water heater in there for you.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
It's hard to find these cheap homes in neighborhoods many would actually call safe except out in areas of the country no one really wants to live.
There are tons of homes built well today. The problem is most pick their homes at the cheapest price point and then pile the options on. Options are just options and do nothing for the construction quality.
In places where hurricanes have struck, it's the new construction that wasn't cremated.
I would post links from Realtor.com so people can see really what's around that area.
There are tons of homes built here around the early 1900's for Palm Beacher's to have as bungalows. They all have real wood floors as this wasn't special then. Many got terrazo as well which was a big thing back then.....
Thing is all of them are tiny as hell and more than likely being all wood framed have not stood the test of time well in S. Florida coastal areas. Most have only window A/C, crappy insulation/sound proofing, no modern amenities. Some of the neighborhoods are quaint, but they usually back up right to the ghetto neighborhoods. These quaint neighborhoods only remain that way as the people living there stay...as soon as these homes come up for sale the irk of the earth snatch them up because they are cheap. The really odd part is even when they are so cheap you have 4 families moving into a 900sq ft place at times.
Usually when one is talking older neighborhoods that you can't get around buying in since they are on the hottest properties....many are bulldozer the construction and rebuilding. In these cases the land is worth everything and the construction is a minor part.
There are tons of homes built well today. The problem is most pick their homes at the cheapest price point and then pile the options on. Options are just options and do nothing for the construction quality.
In places where hurricanes have struck, it's the new construction that wasn't cremated.
I would post links from Realtor.com so people can see really what's around that area.
There are tons of homes built here around the early 1900's for Palm Beacher's to have as bungalows. They all have real wood floors as this wasn't special then. Many got terrazo as well which was a big thing back then.....
Thing is all of them are tiny as hell and more than likely being all wood framed have not stood the test of time well in S. Florida coastal areas. Most have only window A/C, crappy insulation/sound proofing, no modern amenities. Some of the neighborhoods are quaint, but they usually back up right to the ghetto neighborhoods. These quaint neighborhoods only remain that way as the people living there stay...as soon as these homes come up for sale the irk of the earth snatch them up because they are cheap. The really odd part is even when they are so cheap you have 4 families moving into a 900sq ft place at times.
Usually when one is talking older neighborhoods that you can't get around buying in since they are on the hottest properties....many are bulldozer the construction and rebuilding. In these cases the land is worth everything and the construction is a minor part.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
In general, I agree, although it really comes down to the specific contractors. Some take a lot of shortcuts. It's tough to judge the quality of craftsmanship in older homes. Nonetheless, my home is 50 or 60 years old. I wall-papered one room with a striped type of pattern. I didn't have to "fudge" on a single corner. All the way around the room, the corners are square and the walls are plumb. I've seen other homes from the same era where you'd be nuts to attempt a striped pattern. The same applies to homes 10 years ago, and homes today.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
Another key thing is many of these older homes that have survived don't mean all construction was great back 'then'. It's just the best is what stood the test of time. Like someone buying an older luxury car and then comparing it to the price a compact sells for now. It's the wrong comparision to make...compare it to the current level that car is today and everything is better.
Today's good stuff is better than the past, but it's much more expensive...some of the uber highend items are nearly impossible to get (certain woods for instance), but there are quality subsititutes.
Today's good stuff is better than the past, but it's much more expensive...some of the uber highend items are nearly impossible to get (certain woods for instance), but there are quality subsititutes.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
How can we not base our opinions on anything but what we have experienced? Any how is it any different than what you are doing? You don't live where I do, so how can you say that isn't the way it is where I live?
I've bought houses in three different states and considered buying in a 4th. I'm pretty in tune with what is available in some markets outside of where I currently live.
From 1980-mid 90's there were anywhere from 50% to 60% less homes built per year than there were in the years of 2002-2006. With such a disparity in builds, your chances of landing a home built in a specific time frame get skewed.
http://www.nahbregistration.co...0&genericContentID=554
The majority of the ones being built in the years of 2002-2006 were being done primarily in clumped together neighborhoods that were slapped together as quickly as possible. In 4 different states I watched farms and undeveloped ground get stripped, paved, and built on with houses built as close together as they could so that they could get as many houses as possible in there. The cities turned a blind eye to it. That was more tax revenue and more kids in their school districts making for money from the state.
That's the way it was in around Iowa City, IA. That's how it was in Phoenix, AZ. That's how it was in Omaha, NE. That's how it is in Central IL.
People that built in the 90's didn't move. They refied and stayed put. Their house was already pretty decent. It's those older homes going up on the markets in the last 7 years that you have the choice of shopping vs. the new constructs.
With the new houses in the areas I've shopped you simply can not buy an acreage without spending A LOT more money. I'm talking 25% to 50% more than the same exact house in a drag and drop community.
Between state/local laws and big buck developers gobbling up 250+ acres in a chunk driving up the per acre price for the little guys it is getting increasingly difficult to find such a property.
Add to that the issue that land is finite, and all you really can do is go out from what is already established. You are pushing things further and further away from work areas making for longer commutes.
hanoverphist
Diamond Member
- Dec 7, 2006
- 9,867
- 23
- 76
yup. the new trend here in az is planned communities. places like tartesso or verrado or anthem are pretty big now. they arent horrible houses, and the neighborhoods are pretty nice. ive done the water systems for most of these neighborhoods popping up out here, so ive seen them from start to finish. too far out of civilization for me, but i would live there if my job was closer
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
I work in property assessment. Do you?
Fair enough, but you're not familiar with the market around here.
I don't see the relevancy to this statistic in the discussion.
http://www.nahbregistration.co...0&genericContentID=554
That's too bad. I see the municipalities in our province as a little more responsible than that. I think they've done a pretty good job with urban planning in most areas of the province.
That's too bad.
ok...
Here's where the markets differ. Around here there are a lot more farmers selling off 1 to 3 acre lots. 1 acre res lots go for about $45,000 per acre.
Yeah, well... if you get a place out in the boonies, you have to be willing to drive 30-45 minutes to get to work.
Why not both? Like a new house in an old neighborhood. This is what we have going on in North Portland and the area has been very popular.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
B/c that's more than likely more expensive than the current two options. Buying a tear down and building a new house on the property.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
Yeh. You are still paying a premium for the house sitting on it. So you are paying more for the lot, paying for demolition, and then paying to recondition the property to handle to new construction. That's a lot of money in the hole before you can move into the place.
When lenders were giving out money to anything with a pulse it was possible, but with lending practices really tightening the purse strings I think you'll see less of this practice.
You'll still some people with tons of money to blow, but not in the numbers as the last 5 years.
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