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Would you bomb a busy market

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Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy




Hamas leaders have warned that they have prepared a violent welcome. They have also threatened to resume suicide attacks inside Israel.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how some people rant and wail against Israel for going after the attacker yet fail to really address the tactics of those they play apologist for. So the question needs to be asked - would you order a suicide bombing of innocent civilians? Would you order the random lobbing of rockets?
 
Question for the rationalizers of Israeli policies:

For the sake of discussion, assume the facts of Israel having a policy of brutal restriction/oppression against Palestenians, and of allowing illegal settlement growth, and assume that any attacks by the Palestenians on the far better-funded Israel military are utterly pointless, where the attackers will simply be killed.

What are the legitimate actions available to the Palestenians to resist the wrongs?

Are they limited to non-violent street protests that have no effect on Israeli policy, to watching Israel take their land, to accepting the embargo as a dhild dies without medicine, to getting killed by 'attacing' an Israeli military group where they stand no chance whatsoever? Whle the world does nothing to help, quietly accepting Israel's policies?

Don't try to change the topic to your claims of how Israel would treat them so nicely if they stopped this or that - that's a separate debate with evidence to the contrary anyway (For example, in June Israel agreed for six months to ease the embargo and Hamas agreed to end the rocket attacks; Hamas with a few minor exceptions kept its end of the deal, Israel did not). Answer what the approved actions are by Palestenians in the situation above.
 
People are not against Israel for attack Hamas.

They are against Israel for attacking Hamas and killing civilians.
 
Would I suicide bomb a market? In wartime, and if I had no other options. Yes.

There is no "innocents" in wartime. Those innocents support the war, provided taxes for such war, were vocal in exterminating the rats (me and my family) and want me off the land so they could steal it, I'd look at them as an enemy and a potential target. When facing genocide, you'll do anything... Not that I support it, but I can understand it.

Just because someone is not holding a gun doesn't mean they aren't part of the war.

Swallow the propaganda, there is no such thing as terrorists and innocents.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
Question for the rationalizers of Israeli policies:

For the sake of discussion, assume the facts of Israel having a policy of brutal restriction/oppression against Palestenians, and of allowing illegal settlement growth, and assume that any attacks by the Palestenians on the far better-funded Israel military are utterly pointless, where the attackers will simply be killed.

What are the legitimate actions available to the Palestenians to resist the wrongs?

Are they limited to non-violent street protests that have no effect on Israeli policy, to watching Israel take their land, to accepting the embargo as a dhild dies without medicine, to getting killed by 'attacing' an Israeli military group where they stand no chance whatsoever? Whle the world does nothing to help, quietly accepting Israel's policies?

Don't try to change the topic to your claims of how Israel would treat them so nicely if they stopped this or that - that's a separate debate with evidence to the contrary anyway (For example, in June Israel agreed for six months to ease the embargo and Hamas agreed to end the rocket attacks; Hamas with a few minor exceptions kept its end of the deal, Israel did not). Answer what the approved actions are by Palestenians in the situation above.

Nice try. They had peaceful lives before the first Intifada. They cheered the IDF soldiers on their way into Sinayi at 1967 to fight the Egyptians, of which they thought no good. Until Arafat and his murderous gang came to town and began installing national aspirations at the expense of Israel.

The thing is Israel would be willing to invest considerable efforts to detach itself from this population if only given the chance to do so securely. There would no need for protest then.

Your condescending attitude marked the end of the conflict at the point Israel gives these territories back, without ever considering the remote possibility that the Palestinians might want the entire land of Palestine back. For every time they said this conflict will be resolved with Israel at its 48' borders, I can bring 10 times they said it wouldn't end there. Furthermore, I'd love to see one speech, given in the Arabic language, where a Hamas official states that they will be content with Israel at '67 borders.

Anyway, you can't possibly be suggesting that suicide bombers and rockets fired blindly into civilian areas are the answers, right?
 
Originally posted by: brandonb
Would I suicide bomb a market? In wartime, and if I had no other options. Yes.

There is no "innocents" in wartime. Those innocents support the war, provided taxes for such war, were vocal in exterminating the rats (me and my family) and want me off the land so they could steal it, I'd look at them as an enemy and a potential target. When facing genocide, you'll do anything... Not that I support it, but I can understand it.

Just because someone is not holding a gun doesn't mean they aren't part of the war.

Swallow the propaganda, there is no such thing as terrorists and innocents.

All these arguments also work in favor of the Israelis bombing the living fuck out of Gaza. Just thought you'd like the heads up.
 
I'd bomb a nursery full of infants to kill one terrorist even if the bomb only had a 10% chance of killing him and a 90% chance of wiping out all those fucking babies.

Jesus christ, quit being fucking retarded and reposting these stupid ass questions over and over.

 
Originally posted by: bananapeel42
I'd bomb a nursery full of infants to kill one terrorist even if the bomb only had a 10% chance of killing him and a 90% chance of wiping out all those fucking babies.

Jesus christ, quit being fucking retarded and reposting these stupid ass questions over and over.

that's the stupidest thing i've read all day. so do you support the SWAT team bombing the hell out of a bank and killing all hostages to get to one bank robber?

 
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: SandEagle
"All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert"

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S...2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

goes to show that crazy religious fanatics come from all parts of the world

Yes but this rabbi doesn't run Israel. It's like saying Jesse Jackson runs the US.

i guess it doesn't matter who said it. they sure can act on it by bombing civilian shelters
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor...iddle_east/7819492.stm
 
you know.. people on this forum are idiots

A lot of Israeli soldiers are filled with hate. They do stupid sh!t. They will get punished for it.

A lot of Hamas fighters are filled with hate. They do stupid shit. They will get cheered for it.

Stop the madness. It's as if you all are trying so hard to prove to the other side on ATOT that one side evil while the other is perfect. It won't change the world people
 
Originally posted by: SandEagle
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: SandEagle
"All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert"

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S...2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

goes to show that crazy religious fanatics come from all parts of the world

Yes but this rabbi doesn't run Israel. It's like saying Jesse Jackson runs the US.

i guess it doesn't matter who said it. they sure can act on it by bombing civilian shelters
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor...iddle_east/7819492.stm

Would you do better running a military campaign in the middle of the most densely populated area in the world? Or was it in malice?

 
Originally posted by: Aimster
you know.. people on this forum are idiots

A lot of Israeli soldiers are filled with hate. They do stupid sh!t. They will get punished for it.

A lot of Hamas fighters are filled with hate. They do stupid shit. They will get cheered for it.

Stop the madness. It's as if you all are trying so hard to prove to the other side on ATOT that one side evil while the other is perfect. It won't change the world people

I feel sorry for the miserable souls who basically have good intents, maybe even towards Jews too, but still root for Hamas, an organization which makes a KKK gathering look like an innocent Halloween meetup.

 
Would you bomb the Kind David hotel if you were an Israeli terrorists named Begin so you could become a future PM of Israel? Would you shell a school full of innocent children to stop Hamas or kill UN humanitarian workers in the recent collective punishment efforts from Israel?

The answer is yes yes yes if you are morally bankrupt and think might made right.

And the answer is no no no if anyone thinks anything but fairness to all will advance the cause of peace.
 
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: Craig234
Question for the rationalizers of Israeli policies:

For the sake of discussion, assume the facts of Israel having a policy of brutal restriction/oppression against Palestenians, and of allowing illegal settlement growth, and assume that any attacks by the Palestenians on the far better-funded Israel military are utterly pointless, where the attackers will simply be killed.

What are the legitimate actions available to the Palestenians to resist the wrongs?

Are they limited to non-violent street protests that have no effect on Israeli policy, to watching Israel take their land, to accepting the embargo as a dhild dies without medicine, to getting killed by 'attacing' an Israeli military group where they stand no chance whatsoever? Whle the world does nothing to help, quietly accepting Israel's policies?

Don't try to change the topic to your claims of how Israel would treat them so nicely if they stopped this or that - that's a separate debate with evidence to the contrary anyway (For example, in June Israel agreed for six months to ease the embargo and Hamas agreed to end the rocket attacks; Hamas with a few minor exceptions kept its end of the deal, Israel did not). Answer what the approved actions are by Palestenians in the situation above.

Nice try. They had peaceful lives before the first Intifada. They cheered the IDF soldiers on their way into Sinayi at 1967 to fight the Egyptians, of which they thought no good. Until Arafat and his murderous gang came to town and began installing national aspirations at the expense of Israel.

The thing is Israel would be willing to invest considerable efforts to detach itself from this population if only given the chance to do so securely. There would no need for protest then.

Your condescending attitude marked the end of the conflict at the point Israel gives these territories back, without ever considering the remote possibility that the Palestinians might want the entire land of Palestine back. For every time they said this conflict will be resolved with Israel at its 48' borders, I can bring 10 times they said it wouldn't end there. Furthermore, I'd love to see one speech, given in the Arabic language, where a Hamas official states that they will be content with Israel at '67 borders.

Anyway, you can't possibly be suggesting that suicide bombers and rockets fired blindly into civilian areas are the answers, right?

Yes the Palestinians should do what ever Israel wants. In fact they should be happy to live in her Ghettos until Israel come up with a better place to march them to.
 
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: Craig234
Question for the rationalizers of Israeli policies:

For the sake of discussion, assume the facts of Israel having a policy of brutal restriction/oppression against Palestenians, and of allowing illegal settlement growth, and assume that any attacks by the Palestenians on the far better-funded Israel military are utterly pointless, where the attackers will simply be killed.

What are the legitimate actions available to the Palestenians to resist the wrongs?

Are they limited to non-violent street protests that have no effect on Israeli policy, to watching Israel take their land, to accepting the embargo as a dhild dies without medicine, to getting killed by 'attacing' an Israeli military group where they stand no chance whatsoever? Whle the world does nothing to help, quietly accepting Israel's policies?

Don't try to change the topic to your claims of how Israel would treat them so nicely if they stopped this or that - that's a separate debate with evidence to the contrary anyway (For example, in June Israel agreed for six months to ease the embargo and Hamas agreed to end the rocket attacks; Hamas with a few minor exceptions kept its end of the deal, Israel did not). Answer what the approved actions are by Palestenians in the situation above.

Nice try. They had peaceful lives before the first Intifada. They cheered the IDF soldiers on their way into Sinayi at 1967 to fight the Egyptians, of which they thought no good. Until Arafat and his murderous gang came to town and began installing national aspirations at the expense of Israel.

The thing is Israel would be willing to invest considerable efforts to detach itself from this population if only given the chance to do so securely. There would no need for protest then.

Your condescending attitude marked the end of the conflict at the point Israel gives these territories back, without ever considering the remote possibility that the Palestinians might want the entire land of Palestine back. For every time they said this conflict will be resolved with Israel at its 48' borders, I can bring 10 times they said it wouldn't end there. Furthermore, I'd love to see one speech, given in the Arabic language, where a Hamas official states that they will be content with Israel at '67 borders.

Anyway, you can't possibly be suggesting that suicide bombers and rockets fired blindly into civilian areas are the answers, right?

Yes the Palestinians should do what ever Israel wants. In fact they should be happy to live in her Ghettos until Israel come up with a better place to march them to.

"Detachment" for me is allowing them to create whatever national entity they like over these territories, as long as it's not actively hostile towards Israel. I never supported locking up the Palestinians (just as I refute the idea of annexing their population into Israel).
 
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: SandEagle
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: SandEagle
"All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert"

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S...2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

goes to show that crazy religious fanatics come from all parts of the world

Yes but this rabbi doesn't run Israel. It's like saying Jesse Jackson runs the US.

i guess it doesn't matter who said it. they sure can act on it by bombing civilian shelters
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor...iddle_east/7819492.stm

Would you do better running a military campaign in the middle of the most densely populated area in the world? Or was it in malice?


LOOK at how you describe these people.. Look at how JS80 says to KILL EVERY PALESTINIAN...

Was it in malice -- My answer is HELL YES IT WAS

Your people have easily become what they tried to defend themselves from

 
Originally posted by: Aimster
you know.. people on this forum are idiots

A lot of Israeli soldiers are filled with hate. They do stupid sh!t. They will get punished for it.

A lot of Hamas fighters are filled with hate. They do stupid shit. They will get cheered for it.

Stop the madness. It's as if you all are trying so hard to prove to the other side on ATOT that one side evil while the other is perfect. It won't change the world people

We *could* say 'hey, we're all perfectly safe over here and participating in a message board for fun, so let's just have fun and use the war for our own entertainment'.

I think it's far better for people to recognize the inherent injustice and problem in how the people of the US with little interest in Palestenians are voting for the policies that will affect those people so much, and to recognize the moral responsibility involved in that imbalanced situation and take some responsibility for the policies.

But you're right in large part about how little the debate here matters to anything - but let's recognize that problem, as our tax dollards pay for the killing of people.
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Hamas leaders have warned that they have prepared a violent welcome. They have also threatened to resume suicide attacks inside Israel.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how some people rant and wail against Israel for going after the attacker yet fail to really address the tactics of those they play apologist for. So the question needs to be asked - would you order a suicide bombing of innocent civilians? Would you order the random lobbing of rockets?
Well, they kill their own wounded people in their hospitals, they bomb their own schools to gain sympathy, why wouldn't they bomb crowded markets? Why wouldn't they lob random rockets?

Me? No I would never order something like that, I mean it's simply fucking obvious, that the only thing that will come of it is a retaliation that may get a lot of my fellow civilian citizens killed. How could I live with myself knowing that my stupid pathetic dumbass actions may even cause the death of innocent CHILDREN?
 
Originally posted by: dahunan
Your people have easily become what they tried to defend themselves from

They send suicide bombers? They just randomly lob rockets? They hide behind civilians in war?


Oh wait - that doesn't really address the topic....
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Would you bomb a busy market?
A: NEVER! And, just to make it clear, I plan to spend the rest of my life hunting down the evil sons of bitches who would ever do such a thing.
 
Topic Title: Would you bomb a busy market
Topic Summary: By bomb, I mean order a suicide/homicide bombing.

Absolutely not.

Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Would you bomb a busy market?
A: NEVER! And, just to make it clear, I plan to spend the rest of my life hunting down the evil sons of bitches who would ever do such a thing.

Stop drinking the War on Terror Kool-Aid, and pick up a fucking history book. I'm talking RECENT history, in the last few decades.
 
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