Would this kill my SSD quick ?

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mikeymikec

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,992
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pcslookout said:
Well 300TB for 10 years is 164GB a day.

Mainly because of all the writing and reading constantly.
Click to expand...

Ok, so you're saying the newsgroup in question will write about 300TB of data. If so, why not write it directly to the HDD?
 
P

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,959
157
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mikeymikec said:
Ok, so you're saying the newsgroup in question will use up 300TB of data. If so, why not write it directly to the HDD?
Click to expand...

That is what I do now, write it directly to the HDD.

I wonder how many more writes a HDD can take compared to a SSD ?
 
mikeymikec

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,992
16,236
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pcslookout said:
That is what I do now, write it directly to the HDD.

I wonder how many more writes a HDD can take compared to a SSD ?
Click to expand...

Wait - do you have any idea how much data you'll actually be downloading? I just realised the 300TB figure was to do with the specs of the drive (morning here, I'm a bit slow in the mornings).

SSDs and HDDs die for a few reasons, not just because of how much work they're doing. I've never heard of a HDD being rated for the number of writes, their MTBFs tend to be rated in hours.

SSDs are rated for writes because it's known that flash cells have a finite number of writes, though if you look at techreport's SSD endurance trials, it seems pretty unlikely that while the 840 PRO lasted for ~2.2PB of writes, the 850 PRO would only last for 300TB. Samsung just put that in the specs because that's all they're willing to support it for.
 
P

pcslookout

Lifer
Mar 18, 2007
11,959
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mikeymikec said:
Wait - do you have any idea how much data you'll actually be downloading? I just realised the 300TB figure was to do with the specs of the drive (morning here, I'm a bit slow in the mornings).

SSDs and HDDs die for a few reasons, not just because of how much work they're doing. I've never heard of a HDD being rated for the number of writes, their MTBFs tend to be rated in hours.

SSDs are rated for writes because it's known that flash cells have a finite number of writes, though if you look at techreport's SSD endurance trials, it seems pretty unlikely that while the 840 PRO lasted for ~2.2PB of writes, the 850 PRO would only last for 300TB. Samsung just put that in the specs because that's all they're willing to support it for.
Click to expand...

Around 200 to 300 GB a day sometimes. (4K content sorry)

Oh ok.
 
mikeymikec

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,992
16,236
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frowertr said:
Who keeps a drive for 10 years??
Click to expand...

I think the answer to that question will change significantly with SSDs in the mainstream.

With HDDs being a major slowing factor of a computer's general performance, if one had a half-reasonable reason to replace a boot HDD with a newer one (e.g. capacity, even though one could potentially work around it with other storage devices), then upgrading the slowest part of the computer could yield some gains. If a system booting from a HDD took say 45-90 seconds to boot, then chopping say ten seconds off of that was mildly desirable along with the massive capacity increase.

However, with a reasonable SSD and a reasonably modern system, Windows boots in ten seconds or less. If I replaced my 840 PRO 256GB boot SSD with even a PCIe SSD that probably costs as much as the rest of my system put together, the boot time may be reduced further (not necessarily a given), but let's be insanely generous and say the boot time is cut in half. 5-second boot time, 10-second boot time... does it really matter? That's just aside from the fact that I generally put my computer to sleep rather than shutting it down. Pretty much every app on my computer starts in such a short period of time that even halving it isn't going to make me think "ooh, that was worth it".

So while a bigger SSD would be nice, I'm doing just fine by backing up steam games I'm not using to HDD and restore them to SSD when I want to play them again. Unless I start playing games that weigh in at 100GB, I'm not going to run into real capacity issues at any point soon. Even then, if I went like-for-like, a Samsung PRO 512GB drive would set me back a heck of a lot (which brings into question the "was it worth it" point).
 
nerp

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
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People need to stop worrying about 'wearing out' SSDs. Not going to happen.
 
Charlie98

Charlie98

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2011
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frowertr said:
Who keeps a drive for 10 years??
Click to expand...

As larger SSDs become mainstream in consumer prebuilts, they will be in use much longer before they are upgraded, if at all. The challenge in the Dark Ages (2010) for SSDs was capacity... not an issue anymore.

In my case, once I got the SSDs in my system where I needed them, capacity-wise, they have pretty much been hands-off since... and I don't really have any desire to upgrade them. I think the drive in my HTPC may be 3 years old, already.

OP, an SSD is just a tool, just like your HDD... just use it and live your life. In your case, with that much writing, I would have a separate OS drive, and then a scratch drive for writing your daily downloads.
 
mikeymikec

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,992
16,236
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nerp said:
People need to stop worrying about 'wearing out' SSDs. Not going to happen.
Click to expand...

You don't think that's a valid concern if someone is talking about writing 300GB/day?

Maths isn't my strong point, but I think that based on Samsung's official support figure (300TB), the 300GB/day user would wear out the drive in 2.8 years.

Just because the 840 PRO that TR used for the endurance trials lasted for ~2.2PB of writes it doesn't mean that most of that model will, let alone the fact that the OP has an 850 PRO. Some drives in that test died before 200TB IIRC.

It also isn't reasonable to assume that the OP will only be writing this newsgroup data to the drive (esp. if it's a boot/apps/data drive), so the usage figure may be higher than 300GB/day.
 
X

XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
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I don't see why you'd bother download them to the SSD first just to move them to a spindle. I doubt your download speed is exceeding the speed of the spindle, so regardless how fast your SSD is, it's just adding more time to the process if it's not the final resting place.
 
UsandThem

UsandThem

Elite Member
May 4, 2000
16,068
7,383
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XavierMace said:
I don't see why you'd bother download them to the SSD first just to move them to a spindle. I doubt your download speed is exceeding the speed of the spindle, so regardless how fast your SSD is, it's just adding more time to the process if it's not the final resting place.
Click to expand...

+1

I agree. It doesn't make sense to my either.

I am not sure why he would write 300TB/daily to the SSD just to turn around and move it to a HDD later the same day.

Seems like a waste of time, and it will wear down a very nice SSD very quickly.
 
mikeymikec

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,992
16,236
136
XavierMace said:
I don't see why you'd bother download them to the SSD first just to move them to a spindle. I doubt your download speed is exceeding the speed of the spindle, so regardless how fast your SSD is, it's just adding more time to the process if it's not the final resting place.
Click to expand...

Which is why I suggested that :)
 
LTC8K6

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
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512GB 850Pro is rated for a minimum of 150TBW, with a 10 year warranty.

You might wear it out in 5 years at your 200-300GB per day rate.
 
LTC8K6

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
126
Okay, here is what Samsung says:

Enhanced Endurance

With twice the endurance of the previous model*, the 850 PRO will keep working as long as you do. Samsung's V-NAND technology is built to handle a minimum of 150 Terabytes Written (TBW) over the lifetime of the drive, which equates to a 40 GB daily read/write workload over a 10-year period. Plus, it comes with the industry's top-level ten-year limited warranty.
Click to expand...

It looks like Samsung has cut the 2TB/1TB/and 512GB drives from 300TBW down to 150TBW.

I believe that came up on this board before.
 
nerp

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,865
105
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300GB a day. I'm wondering what the heck you're downloading.
 
UsandThem

UsandThem

Elite Member
May 4, 2000
16,068
7,383
146
nerp said:
Curing the porn or warez addiction might go a long way toward saving his SSD.
Click to expand...

Overcoming a 300 GB /day habit would probably require a complete intervention. I'd watch that episode on A&E for sure. ;)
 
BonzaiDuck

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,622
2,024
126
I've been watching the discussion of these issues, and I saw the techreport endurance tests. I've tried to avoid writing a lot of data to my boot SSDs.

But because of the configuration I've made with tiered caching to a small SSD and RAM, I found it very advantageous to use a feature that writes the RAM cache contents to disk, making them persistent between restarts and reboots. If my computer hibernates three times daily on average, this means there would be about 5GB of cache contents written each time, in addition to 10GB for the Hiberfil.sys, and about 1GB for the swapfile. This is practically a "break-even" situation against a default swapfile size of 16GB if one allows Windows to manage swapfiles by itself. So figure 45GB or more are daily written to my SSD.

Somehow, I come up with about 30 years lifespan with that, if the limit is 500TB. If one begins to have problems with an SSD at 300TB, that would mean about 18 years. If I write three times as much daily, then 6 years.

I think before that time, I will have moved on to newer hardware . . . . The caching is most elaborate on my system with an ADATA SP550 boot-system SSD.

Now if the OP is writing much, much more than am I on a daily basis, it might change expectations. But if news-group downloads are simply saved directly to an HDD, it circumvents any worry.

My 840 Pro cost me over $450 if I remember, and we'd like to recoup our investments in hardware. But of course, that was the model that has a longer life, so . . .

With an SSD
 
Elixer

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,371
762
126
pcslookout said:
How much writes can a hard drive take compared to a SSD ?
Click to expand...

It is different technology, you can't really compare them like that.
A SSD fails for different reasons than HDs.

Suffice to say writing isn't really a issue with a HD, mechanical breakdown is though.
 
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