Would immortality be borring?

[moonbogg]

I don't think so. Here's why. If we look down the scale of life forms maybe we can get an idea of what it might be like up the scale from where we stand. The life of a hamster might seem boring to us, no matter how short a hamster's life is. But its not boring to the hamster because the hamsters ability to think matches it's sense of duty and purpose.
With immortality, new brains would come as well and our greatly enhanced ability to think would give rise to a greater sense of duty and purpose. Instead of striving to accomplish things that take 20 years, we may strive to accomplish things that take 200 years, or 2000 years.
Some people think that merging with technology will be how it happens, but this would do away with much of what it is to be human, and some don't find that appealing. I think genetic engineering and building a more robust body and mind could be an option. Either way, I actually do think that this is the next real step it "human" evolution. I don't think it matters much what branch of life intelligence comes from. At the later stages it will likely all end up looking much the same, the logical conclusion of what an intelligent entity can eventually be.

 

[Oyeve]

Im all for it BUT, in order to have this we would have to stop reproducing, at least long enough to find new planets to live on. otherwise we would be overpopulated and being immortal we couldnt kill each other off. It would be hell on earth.

 

[Juddog]

There can be only one.

 

[moonbogg]

Im all for it BUT, in order to have this we would have to stop reproducing, at least long enough to find new planets to live on. otherwise we would be overpopulated and being immortal we couldnt kill each other off. It would be hell on earth.

Yeah, that would get ugly. There is a way out, but its a less likely one, at least at first. We could transfer consciousness to a virtual world and interact with the real world through avatars when desired. Avatars could be shared and used like rental cars or used to perform work in the real world. An engineered, virtual world would be better to spend most of our time in anyways and you could fit as many people in it as you'd like.
Also, if consciousness is confined to a single body or unit, then you could still die or be murdered. If consciousness is constantly backed up or stored on a server, functioning in two spaces or more at once, the you couldn't die due to any practical cause....unless someone makes a consciousness killing computer virus.

 

[Retro Rob]

The human race would have to be completely redone (meaning, all the things that make life hard would have to be done away with) for it to be worthwhile -- living forever in this mess is hardly desirable.

I am a religious person so I'm already comfortable with the idea, but I have no reason to believe this can be done via material means. The reason I say this is because to attain immortality, someone has to already have it or it has to already exist -- immortality isn't something that can be manufactured, IMO.

All we have done through engineering is improve upon something already existing, and we are simply incapable of perfecting anything, nor have we made anything totally new and unique...things not already made from available elements that make up our bodies and universe.

There is no element that makes something immortal. We cannot create something not made from pre-existing material.

 

[moonbogg]

The human race would have to be completely redone (meaning, all the things that make life hard would have to be done away with) for it to be worthwhile -- living forever in this mess is hardly desirable.

I am a religious person so I'm already comfortable with the idea, but I have no reason to believe this can be done via material means. The reason I say this is because to attain immortality, someone has to already have it or it has to already exist -- immortality isn't something that can be manufactured, IMO.

All we have done through engineering is improve upon something already existing, and we are simply incapable of perfecting anything, nor have we made anything totally new and unique...things not already made from available elements that make up our bodies and universe.

There is no element that makes something immortal. We cannot create something not made from pre-existing material.

By immortal I mean something better and longer lasting that a fleshy, crushable human.
Also, the human race doesn't exist in my opinion. Humanity only represents a point in time along a path of progression, from single cell organisms all the way up to whatever we end up becoming. Don't get too attached. Humanity is not unique nor created and we are on the fast track to becoming something very different.

 

[Retro Rob]

By immortal I mean something better and longer lasting that a fleshy, crushable human.
Also, the human race doesn't exist in my opinion. Humanity only represents a point in time along a path of progression, from single cell organisms all the way up to whatever we end up becoming. Don't get too attached. Humanity is not unique nor created and we are on the fast track to becoming something very different.

Well, if its simply "longer lasting", then you're using the wrong word since immortality means eternal life.

You can have your opinion, but humans are simply becoming dead...I see no evidence we're "becoming something very different"... which is a completely conjectural line of thought, and we're certainly not "improving".

We cannot see 200,000 years down the line, but that doesn't mean we can make stuff up, either.

As far as we know, this "progression" could as well not be progression...just how we choose to understand it. We rely heavily on technology and not enough on nature and agriculture, we make our environments adapt to US ...I wouldn't be surprised if our intelligence actually hindered the evolutionary process and we're returning to being nothing more than pond scum.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

By immortal I mean something better and longer lasting that a fleshy, crushable human.
Also, the human race doesn't exist in my opinion. Humanity only represents a point in time along a path of progression, from single cell organisms all the way up to whatever we end up becoming. Don't get too attached. Humanity is not unique nor created and we are on the fast track to becoming something very different.

You would come to view it as a curse if you really mean immortal. Everything you know ceases to be. Stars die out. The heat death of the universe. Subatomic particles decay. Everything is gone. Not one atom left, and you haven't even started ending.

 

[moonbogg]

Well, if its simply "longer lasting", then you're using the wrong word since immortality means eternal life.

You can have your opinion, but humans are simply becoming dead...I see no evidence we're "becoming something very different"... which is a completely conjectural line of thought, and we're certainly not "improving".

We cannot see 200,000 years down the line, but that doesn't mean we can make stuff up, either.

As far as we know, this "progression" could as well not be progression...just how we choose to understand it. We rely heavily on agriculture...I wouldn't be surprised if our intelligence actually hindered the evolutionary process and we're returning to being nothing more than pond scum.

Sorry Rob, but i'm an optimist. I see a better future for us than that.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Sorry Rob, but i'm an optimist. I see a better future for us than that.

It's a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion years after the last possible thing could have happened. That's physics. Now all that time passes and you realize that it's literally an infinitesimal part of your existence. When that time is raised factorially it still doesn't begin to tick off any of your time. It never happens. How much fun does that sound like?

 

[nickbits]

That would be my worst nightmare, I'm already bored to death.

 

[Retro Rob]

Sorry Rob, but i'm an optimist. I see a better future for us than that.

I mean, so I am. But if I am to believe we're "improving", then I need reason to believe that.

A quick glance around the world and man is more barbaric that I've ever read about. Sure, we're the most technologically advanced than ever to this point, but still, that hasn't stopped the barbarism, nor terrorism, nor family disunity.

I would be shocked if we didn't plunge into an all out nuclear holocaust and wiped each other out before I hit the grave.

 

[moonbogg]

It's a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion years after the last possible thing could have happened. That's physics. Now all that time passes and you realize that it's literally an infinitesimal part of your existence. When that time is raised factorially it still doesn't begin to tick off any of your time. It never happens. How much fun does that sound like?

Answer: Engineering.

We can overcome the mundanity of our future excellence. We create the world we want to experience. We can choose to forget what we want and create new meaning for ourselves. Besides, a trillion of anything is a lot. We can cross that bridge when we get to it. You don't think we can problem solve such issues? Like I said, i'm an optimist.
As far as making things up about the future, why not? Certain types of people make stuff up about the past and the nature of reality all the time, so why can't an atheist dream about the future?

 

[Retro Rob]

Answer: Engineering.

We can overcome the mundanity of our future excellence. We create the world we want to experience. We can choose to forget what we want and create new meaning for ourselves. Besides, a trillion of anything is a lot. We can cross that bridge when we get to it. You don't think we can problem solve such issues? Like I said, i'm an optimist.
As far as making things up about the future, why not? Certain types of people make stuff up about the past and the nature of reality all the time, so why can't an atheist dream about the future?

Hmm... I respect that, but it really sounds like wishful thinking. Conversely, I am quite happy that atheists dream about the future, shucks.

I really don't mean to be a pessimist, but we really have fundamental issues that we haven't began to successfully tackle (like food, clothing, shelter for millions and millions of people). I mean, we simply cannot skip this important step, or we'd carry the same age-old problems with us...we'd be punting the problem, so to speak, only for it to come back to bite us hard.

As the saying goes in sports, "one game at a time". We can't worry about the playoffs if he haven't played the regular season.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

If death didn't exist, we would have to invent it.

 

[woolfe9998]

It's a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion years after the last possible thing could have happened. That's physics. Now all that time passes and you realize that it's literally an infinitesimal part of your existence. When that time is raised factorially it still doesn't begin to tick off any of your time. It never happens. How much fun does that sound like?

I'm going to assume that "immortality" actually means that you live as long as the universe. If the universe dies out, I doubt any technology could save you.

 

[moonbogg]

Hmm... I respect that, but it really sounds like wishful thinking. Conversely, I am quite happy that atheists dream about the future, shucks.

I really don't mean to be a pessimist, but we really have fundamental issues that we haven't began to successfully tackle (like food, clothing, shelter for millions and millions of people). I mean, we simply cannot skip this important step, or we'd carry the same age-old problems with us...we'd be punting the problem, so to speak, only for it to come back to bite us hard.

As the saying goes in sports, "one game at a time". We can't worry about the playoffs if he haven't played the regular season.

I will be so bold as to claim that the source of all of our problems lies in the current developmental phase that our brains are in. We are primitive, selfish, aggressive, violent etc. The source of that is the brain. It developed enough to get us where we are now and it works well enough to finally enable us to take our destiny into our own hands.
Through engineering; biological, neural and otherwise, we can overcome these issues. We can design ourselves with the ethics and values of our choosing. The poor state of the world, as poor as it may be, is countless times better than where we once were. The standard of living for most people has skyrocketed. We control the climate in our living spaces, have plenty of food through agricultural advancements etc. The only reason some people suffer is because of the lack of empathy of others, for the most part at least.
The first step, I believe, is to cure disease and other ailments through genetic engineering. The next step is enhancement of biological systems and to use AI to help us think our way to a better future for all. Then, the final phase of merging with our future selves can take place.
You want to talk about God? If there is one, then suddenly certain things would start making sense to me in a suspicious way. Lets say you wanted to create something special, such as the conditions in which intelligent life may emerge. Wouldn't you want to create a potentially endless canvas on which they could paint their futures? This universe seems like such a canvas, but we have to work together to fully exploit it. All of this "wasted" energy and space, seemingly inhospitable to life may one day prove to be exactly the kind of resources we need to build a future for ourselves and to arrive at perhaps our intended state of being.

 

[Retro Rob]

I'm going to assume that "immortality" actually means that you live as long as the universe. If the universe dies out, I doubt any technology could save you.

This was kinda my train of thought...we're limited to things that are available to us...immortality simply isn't one of those things.

 

[moonbogg]

This was kinda my train of thought...we're limited to things that are available to us...immortality simply isn't one of those things.

So lets just give up and stay stuck with 80 years? Luckily there are others who have better ideas, and they are acting on them.

https://www.humanbrainproject.eu/

http://www.ahshistory.com/2013/09/24/parents-should-be-able-to-genetically-enhance-their-children/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162...-human-immortality-artificial-brains-by-2045/

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2013/10/technological-singularity-might-mangle-our-minds/ (Overcoming challenges)

Countless more you can find, i'm sure.

 

[Retro Rob]

So lets just give up and stay stuck with 80 years? Luckily there are others who have better ideas, and they are acting on them.

https://www.humanbrainproject.eu/

http://www.ahshistory.com/2013/09/24/parents-should-be-able-to-genetically-enhance-their-children/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162...-human-immortality-artificial-brains-by-2045/

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2013/10/technological-singularity-might-mangle-our-minds/ (Overcoming challenges)

Countless more you can find, i'm sure.

I didn't say that, I just don't share your faith in human ingenuity. That Russian tycoon is straight up delusional with his 32-year deadline for all this to be done.

It's funny, though...we can have holographic versions of us before we can make sure everyone has enough food.

 

[moonbogg]

I didn't say that, I just don't share your faith in human ingenuity. That Russian tycoon is straight up delusional with his 32-year deadline for all this to be done.

It's funny, though...we can have holographic versions of us before we can make sure everyone has enough food.

At least he's trying. Better hope we get AI before he does, or else the universe will be covered with an iron curtain.

 

[Greenman]

It's a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion years after the last possible thing could have happened. That's physics. Now all that time passes and you realize that it's literally an infinitesimal part of your existence. When that time is raised factorially it still doesn't begin to tick off any of your time. It never happens. How much fun does that sound like?

You need a galactic clock to get any grasp of that time frame. I read story some years back and the clock they used in it was a Jupiter sized planet made out of solid granite. Once every thousand years a little finch would come and sharpen his beak on the planet, just two or three swipes on each side. You could tell how much time had passed by how much of the planet had been worn away by the finch.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You need a galactic clock to get any grasp of that time frame. I read story some years back and the clock they used in it was a Jupiter sized planet made out of solid granite. Once every thousand years a little finch would come and sharpen his beak on the planet, just two or three swipes on each side. You could tell how much time had passed by how much of the planet had been worn away by the finch.

And then that's nothing. Death in inevitable. Staying sane for a very long time would be a trick in itself, forget forever.

 

[denis280]

That would give me time to finish my basement

 

[moonbogg]

And then that's nothing. Death in inevitable. Staying sane for a very long time would be a trick in itself, forget forever.

Know how you do it? You experience life through the eyes of others. Perhaps through the eyes of 7 billion. One perspective at a time.